600 NE 3"/615 HellboyExpress 3.5"/20Ga

06 November 2009, 06:20

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
Rip...
What do you think of a 410 From Hell using 9,3x74 brass? Ream out a 405 Win #1

Boomer,
The world already has the 400/.395 Nitro Express Aboriginal.
That was made with 9.3x74 brass.
And prof242 kidnapped my reamer for it.
He mooched a set of reloading dies for it too.
All will be forgiven if he actually builds a rifle.
Or else ... I will be sorely P-O-ed, and I do not mean Ackley-Improved.

That 400 NE is so similar to a 410 Gauge From Hell, the latter would be redundant for RIP at the moment.

R.I.P. (Rifled-gun Internationale Permanente)

may consider a complete line of Bore/Gauge rifle/shotgun governances in the future.
However, the next one must surely be The Sweet Sixteen "Hellgirl."
12 Gauge From Hell
16 Gauge Sweet Hellgirl Express
20 Gauge Hellboy Express

20 HE
16 SHE
12 IT

DRG say: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

06 November 2009, 06:52

RIP

Tentative specs:
Caliber and case length:
20 Gauge HE: .615, 3.5000"
16 Gauge SHE: .662, 3.6750"
12 Gauge IT: .729, 3.8500"

MAP for all in RMC brass: 28,000 Piezo PSI

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

06 November 2009, 19:18

boom stick

Glad to see another 16GFH to be made.
Can 600 bullets be fired with a sabot?
See if Ed would be willing to make a few from 50 BMG brass again.

06 November 2009, 20:13

RIP

The 16GaFH is a quandry between .662" and .665" groove seen from various sources.
Anything but .666" as that one is cursed.
.665" groove might require .666" cast slugs.

Maybe the 16GaFH as a .665 Shedevil Express is just too spooky.
Not top of priority list.

A 20Ga Hellboy Express 3.5" with RMC brass and straight SAAMI chamber will deliver 8400 ft.lbs.
Enough fun for a while ...

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

06 November 2009, 20:29

Grandpasez

On 16ga .662" is what book says. If I do anything else with it
It'll be cases from RMC. Now I do have .660-662"' lead slugs
from Greg that work in my two cases I made. The gun I have now is
a lighter barrel Stevens, even though it was the heaviest
I could find, and later I will put heavy smooth one on my second
Savage bolt gun that I test various barrels/calibers on.Ed

06 November 2009, 20:58

RIP

Ed,
"Rifled-gun Internationale Permanente" hereby accepts, on authority of world renowned shotgun and bore-rifle expert Ed Hubel,
that the groove diameter of rifled 16 gauge slug barrel should be .662".
Less spooky this way.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

07 November 2009, 05:02

fireball168

Clymer told me to pound sand, although rather nicely.

Called PTG and Kathleen said..."you're the second guy this week". Ha!

Should be sending a print over directly...she said that "other guy" changed the forcing cone angle from the original print.

My preferred Encore barrel distributor now shows out of stock, but they are supposed to be in next week some time.

07 November 2009, 06:03

boom stick

quote:
Originally posted by fireball168:
Clymer told me to pound sand, although rather nicely.

Called PTG and Kathleen said..."you're the second guy this week". Ha!

Should be sending a print over directly...she said that "other guy" changed the forcing cone angle from the original print.

My preferred Encore barrel distributor now shows out of stock, but they are supposed to be in next week some time.

I Bet they read this thread

07 November 2009, 08:46

RIP

S&H has read this thread:

When I get the components together, will see if it produces only 8000 ft.lbs. or closer to 9000 ft.lbs.

Would the 775-grainer with SD of .292 or the 795-grainer with SD of right on .300 be better?

Surely anything in that range would turn a boy's shotgun into an "elephant gun."

07 November 2009, 10:34

boom stick

Dont be a wuss... make it 800 grains

Big round numbers scare animals better

07 November 2009, 11:00

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
Dont be a wuss... make it 800 grains
Big round numbers scare animals better

Will have 900-grain hardcast lead, for kicks.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

09 November 2009, 23:43

boom stick

Add this 20 gauge Howdah to your 20 gauge collection.

Barrels look plenty thick.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...9-1&_requestid=83289

10 November 2009, 08:24

boom stick

Any thoughts on a hollow base or aluminium core version for smooth bores so the bullet will have a weight forward design?

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
S&H has read this thread:

When I get the components together, will see if it produces only 8000 ft.lbs. or closer to 9000 ft.lbs.

Would the 775-grainer with SD of .292 or the 795-grainer with SD of right on .300 be better?

Surely anything in that range would turn a boy's shotgun into an "elephant gun."

10 November 2009, 08:36

Macifej

quote:
Any thoughts

I've given up thinking ... makes the days go by faster ...

12 November 2009, 22:14

RIP

Steve Brooks of Brooks' Moulds is making a .616" diameter mould that is supposed to be 980 grains in 30:1 alloy.
Has a .425" diameter FN meplat, flat base, and whatever grease grooves are practical ...

That is a meplat of about 69% of full diameter.
Should work, eh?

In Linotype it will be lighter and bigger diameter for sizing back down to .616".
Or cast in 30:1 for more weight and recoil and no sizing required, just lube and shoot.

03 December 2009, 01:02

RIP

Steve Brooks took some time off from winning rifle silhouette championships to whip out the 20 Gauge Hellboy mould.
It has been shipped.

It is supposed to cast .616"/980-grain slugs in 30:1 alloy.

I suppose a 16 Gauge Shedevil mould would be for .663"/1200-grain slugs.
It's not over until the fat lady sings.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

03 December 2009, 01:30

michael458

quote:
That is a meplat of about 69% of full diameter.
Should work, eh?

I think so!

M

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.

03 December 2009, 05:29

fireball168

Nice!

Still waiting on the Encore barrel to show here.

04 December 2009, 04:17

RIP

Using a soft lead fishin' sinker pounded into the muzzle of the TC with a brass rod:
True .615" grooves.
Guessing .605" land/bore diameter.
Hard to measure that with my technique.

Unfortunately, my NEFer seems to have .620" grooves at the muzzle.
It might work better as a true 600 NE.
I do like that TC Encore 20 Gauge.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

05 December 2009, 07:59

RIP

The Mould was hanging out on my mailbox since noon today.
Package was too big to go in the mailbox, so "Mailperson" attached it with rubber bands to the mailbox door left hanging open to passing traffic on the road.
The
"post" arrived!

No theives today.
Defrosting indoors now before I open the package ...

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

05 December 2009, 08:55

RIP

Yep, .616" diameter, and 956.5 grains +/- 0.5 grains for these two specimens (soft 30:1) that Steve Brooks cast and sent with the mould, as is his customary service.
The slug length is 1.345".

Should be very close to 900 grains when made of "hardcast" alloy.
Might even swell up enough to seal the NEFer rifling.
The slugs as shown would be good in the TC Encore, with no sizing required, only some lube required.

Ordered the nose punch and the ventilated sprue plate as extras.
Nice.

Now I will have to wait for the 3.5" 20 Gauge RMC brass.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

05 December 2009, 10:08

Low Wall

I like that boolit profile, say in a .40 cal. eh?
First time I have seen a ventilated spure plate..

05 December 2009, 10:41

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by Low Wall:
I like that boolit profile, say in a .40 cal. eh?
First time I have seen a ventilated spure plate..

What's wrong with 20 Gauge?
First ventilated sprue plate I have seen too.
I imagine it would work best with a ladle-poured technique.
You can pour over the pot, with a slight tilt of the gutter in the plate toward the pot. Any excess would run off back into the pot. This would encourage a good fill with less mess or waste.
Just guessing.
I took it because Steve offered it.
I will email and ask if that is the benefit.

Now, does Lyman make a .616" bullet sizing die for use with Linotype and such, cast from this mould?
Will find out.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

05 December 2009, 11:08

Low Wall

20ga.
No thanks... To much jam for this tart!
Your explanation of the sprue plate run-off makes perfect sense esp. with such a large mold..

I don't know if Lyman makes sizers that large as I use a Star.. There are several fellows on the castboolit site that make custom sizers that work in RCBS,Lyman and Star lubra-sizers if Lyman doesn't make what you need..

06 December 2009, 05:02

RIP

From the Brooks Folks:

"We found that when we started making the nose pour moulds there would be a small void pocket inside the bullet with the regular sprue plate. To fix this problem we came up with our vented sprue plate. It lets the alloy fill out the mould & to allow the excess to drain back into the pot while using your ladle to pour the alloy."

"Ventilation" of air from the mould seems to work better with the new sprue plate and ladle pouring.
Probably no difference with bottom spout melters.
Ought to be better with either nose pour or base pour, using a ladle.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

11 December 2009, 03:44

Johnly

Just spotted this thread and have been working on a similar project, 20 ga. Encore and a 650 gr. +/- bullet

http://castboolits.gunloads.co...owthread.php?t=58633

11 December 2009, 08:42

RIP

Johnly,
Interesting that you are using such a large diameter boolit in a TC.
Mine slugs .615" in the grooves.
I am thinking that .616" to .617" is right for that, not .627".

I have not learned anything about NEFer groove diameter other than what I have slugged there too.
Seems to be .620" or .621".
600 NE bullets should work in that.

Connecticut Shotgun's latest flyer showed that they have sold out of the "RBL Professional 20 Gauge Double Rifled Sabot Slug Gun" ... Started at $3995.
Too bad ...

DRG says: "Kiss my grits!"

11 December 2009, 22:22

Johnly

I slugged my barrel and it measured ~.625", so that's how I bored the mold.

12 December 2009, 01:17

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by Johnly:
I slugged my barrel and it measured ~.625", so that's how I bored the mold.

That is strange.
Quality control issues with TC and NEF?

A .615" pilot will not enter the muzzle of my TC 20-gauge.
.605" land diameter, .615" groove, best I can tell.
I ordered a .605" pilot for rechambering the rifled TC 20 Gauge.

If I get the 900-grainers up to 2150 fps, I may be adding 5 pounds of lead and epoxy to the plastic stock.

A 20 Gauge Hellboy 3.5" will be so much easier to work with than the 12 Gauge from Hell.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

21 December 2009, 11:56

boom stick

El Riperooonie...
Since the 577 Trex and the 20 gauge share the same casehead how about doing a Rob on them and add a rim to the case for full house loads like the BMG case and the 12GFH?

Or what Ed has learned and taking the plastic off the shells and adding the base of the shell to the Trex case.

20 GFH 3" but 50K PSI

Hold on!

22 December 2009, 06:27

RIP

Boomer,
Thanks for pointing out the similarity of the 577 Tyrannosaur to a turned down and necked down 20 Gauge 3".
SAAMI base diameter for the 20 Gauge is .6970"-.0090".
What is the max base/head diameter for the 577Trex?
Is it .691"?
That would indeed put it inside the minus tolerance of the 20 Gauge brass.

Are you suggesting that I should get some 577Trex brass and turn the .691" rim down to the extractor groove diameter, and then thread the stump and screw on a 20 Gauge rim?
Why that sounds insane!

Things are going slow at the RIP Skunkworks,
but I would rather wait 6 months for the 3.5" RMC brass.
DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

22 December 2009, 10:10

boom stick

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Boomer,
Thanks for pointing out the similarity of the 577 Tyrannosaur to a turned down and necked down 20 Gauge 3".
SAAMI base diameter for the 20 Gauge is .6970"-.0090".
What is the max base/head diameter for the 577Trex?
Is it .691"?

I think it would be within SAAMI specs but you might want a special reamer but for the new savage bolt actions in 20 gaoge this seems like a cool idea
That would indeed put it inside the minus tolerance of the 20 Gauge brass.

Are you suggesting that I should get some 577Trex brass and turn the .691" rim down to the extractor groove diameter, and then thread the stump and screw on a 20 Gauge rim?
Why that sounds insane!
Things are going slow at the RIP Skunkworks,
but I would rather wait 6 months for the 3.5" RMC brass.
DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

14 February 2010, 23:49

fireball168

Gotta be getting close to some brass from RMC!

15 February 2010, 00:10

RIP

fireball168,
I have written Dave Casey, longhand by snail mail.
Told him that my maternal Grandmother's maiden name was Casey, which is true.

Mighty Casey is still at bat ... long inning.
No Joy In Mudville Yet!
I mailed with that epistle a copy of SAAMI chamber specs for 3" 20 gauge with notation to make it the same except lengthen it to 3.5" in RMC brass.
I mailed to him the PT&G chamber reamer drawing to boot, for 3.5" 20 Gauge that Dave Kiff had already been making for reported Mossberg experiments.

All the above plus previous telephone calls and emails.
No brass yet.
I have done about all I can.
Maybe someone else should try?

The 3.85" 12GaFH-RMC brass took about 6 months of waiting, from initial order to shipping.
For all I know, I am the only soul who ever got any of that.

The 3.5" 20 Gauge-RMC "Hellboy" was first ordered on November 4, 2009 by me.
If past experience is any guide,
it might be another 3 months until it arrives.
If you have ordered some of the brass, that makes two of us, for all I know.

Letter Rip

15 February 2010, 03:29

BigFiveJack

I think this cart. is a great idea. All the power anyone could ever need.

And as things go, CHEAP brass price. Up in the north east there are

hunting areas that are shotgun ONLY, I guess it has to do with projectile

max possible travel. I assume other states around the nation may have

areas like this too. Here's my question; for beasts up through the biggest

BLACK bear, which I hear can be 800 pounds, what weight projectile,

and what velocity, and what length brass in this gauge, makes the most

sense? The places that are shotgun only for deer and bear and the like

ALSO REQUIRE AT LEAST A 20 GAUGE up by me. I'd be up for ordering

some 3.5 inch long and cutting it if needed.

15 February 2010, 03:50

RIP

Bison taken with the factory plastic-hulled 3.5" 20 Gauge sabot slugs reported here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...5gjA&feature=related

Ought to work on these hogs too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...QEqg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcx3s-0Jdpo

http://www.hastingsammunition.com/

15 February 2010, 16:32

fireball168

I ordered my brass in November as well - for whatever reason I thought you had your order in earlier.

The way he talked when I was on the phone with him - it sounded like he had several orders for the 20g 3.5".

Waited until SHOT to order the chamber reamer to get the PTG discount

16 February 2010, 00:30

fourbore

quote:
I think this cart. is a great idea. All the power anyone could ever need.

And as things go, CHEAP brass price.

I am watching this closely as I agree. Imagine total cost one Savage 220 bolt shotgun, some brass and a mould. Hopefully, a lube & sizing die. Heck a Lee hand loader? Then, if; I got real extravagant, maybe see about some express sights and a bbl band for a sling - just too complete the looks. All thats for a three shot rifle that can equal the 577NE 3 inch or up to 600NE. Thinking 3 inch brass (no reamers), should be as good as the 3" cases for the original NE rounds. Simple,... what's the catch? Somethings got to go wrong. It cannot be this easy!

Oh and I almost forgot, it can fire factory loaded 20 ga slugs & sabots. Damn!

16 February 2010, 01:43

RIP

Dave Casey at RMCart was chatted up again today by my telephone:

He has been tied up making a run of 10,000 45-75 cases for some Canadian outfit.
He is a One Man Operation.
He does not have any of the 3" 20 gauge in stock.
He has "Two or three guys wanting the longer 20 Gauge brass."
He got the chamber and reamer drawings I sent to him, "They are in the file."
He will be getting to the 3/4" bar stock soon.
He said "Hopefully it won't take six months this time, hopefully you will have it before 2-1/2 more months."
He remembered me, the guy whose grandmother was a Casey.

fireball168: You, me, and maybe one other guy?