Bro'Dart,

No foul, no harm, no insult taken.
Steven Spielberg with Jerry Garcia's hairdo and belly, yep, that is me.

The .410/404 JRNE parts are next in line. I allow only one rifle at a time to visit the Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Guns.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Yeah, that is good policy. I have one traditional gunsmith, and another fellow who can cut a Class 2A, or better, internal thread on receivers within .0002" of perfection. He gets my sniper rifles. I may have him do some small Sako work in a couple of days.
I have a 9.3x64, 9.3x70, and 404 Jeffery ("OH, the Humanity!) stacked up in the on deck circle for my traditional gunsmith. My goal this year is to have ten rifles lined up in my closet, each one loaded, but with an empty chamber, and ready to go out for whatever is on the menu.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Bro'Dart,

No foul, no harm, no insult taken.
Steven Spielberg with Jerry Garcia's hairdo and belly, yep, that is me.

The .410/404 JRNE parts are next in line. I allow only one rifle at a time to visit the Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Guns.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Big Bores and Jerry Garcia. My favorite rifles and my favorite guitar player.

The .410/404 JRNE LIVES!!!
With exactly 26-inch barrel length, Douglas #4-Sporter, 0.675" Muzzle Diameter,
in a B&C Kevlar/Aramid stock:
She weighs exactly 8 pounds and 15 ounces, empty.
She is lively, balances like a ballerina, on the front action screw.
And she loves getting stuffed with six cartridges in the box at once.
The bolt closes on six down, and she will feed those six like six bolts of flawless "chain lightning."
I see no need to do the "Mauser Pinch" to get a seventh round in the chamber, of this CZ 550 Magnum,
but that can be done if only "in a pinch."
Puns intended, all of them.

No more fire-forming of brass in a Ruger No.1, 450/400 NE ...

... like a ballerina ...

Rip
.

Yes, no more fire-forming of rimless 404 Jeffery brass in the flanged chamber of a Ruger No.1 450/400 S Jeffery NE!

I think that one head separation was due to total failure to maintain anything near headspace control.
The cartridge was supposed to headspace on the bullet ogive ... big mistake!
It worked twice, and the third one was the unlucky charm.
That one got pushed too far into the chamber by my finger, no positive stop when loaded. Yet the firing pin blow simultaneously (or within the same nanosecond) drove the cartidge deeper into the chamber while detonating the primer.

So the cartridge fires while the cartridge base is some distance from the breech block.

Near Simultaneously:

1. The metal of the primer cup extrudes out into a foil-like layer around the primer pocket, doing a pretty good job of sealing the gas leak that is driving the foil production!
No gas cutting was seen on the breech block around the firing pin hole.
The primer was not pierced at the center.

2. The case head separates and cleaves off the base of the cartridge, which now can be driven rearward to seal the breech,
and the front portion of the cartridge case has to be removed from the chamber with a threaded tap.

And it seemed like just another routine fire-forming trigger pull
... until the separated case head came out of the breech of the Ruger No.1.
The rimless case was pushed out with a ramrod from the flanged chamber.

Lessons learned:

1. Avoid headspacing on the bullet, but if you must, then use only a square-based, hard, crimped-in-place bullet, reversed,
so that it gives a very positive stop when it is jammed into the lands.

2. Neck that 404 Jeffery case neck up to .458-caliber-accepting before necking it back down to .410-caliber-accepting.
Just necking the .423-caliber-accepting neck down to .410-caliber-accepting is inadequate.
Those who have gotten by with that are probably getting some help from the extractor of a bolt-action rifle that is chambered for .410/404 Jeffery.

I feel safer now.
Anymore fire-forming I do for the .410/404 JRNE will be done in the CZ 550 Magnum.

Rip
.

64.0 grains of RL-15 gives about 2000 fps with Hornady .410/400gr DGX from my rifle.
Much air space remained, no filler was used.
Even at that, 4 of the 5 bullet holes at 50-yards were touching, I pulled the fifth.
That is a starting load from the Hornady manual for the 450/400 NE 3".
I will try 65.0 grains of Varget next, with a Dacron fluff filler, or foam wad, and work up from there.
That one is not in the Hornady manual,
but should make a nice fire-forming load.
Eventually, 210-grainers at +3300 fps.

Rip
.

RIP
A very interesting thread, enjoyed it...

Maybe you guys need to work on the headstamp, least you be droping 20 dollar bills on the floor for some interprising young African customs officer..

I think I saw one case that could be changed without much trouble, did I not?

Ray,
I am glad you got to see it before Photopucker pulls the plug on the photos.

I am home free to fire-form with ease now,
no ramrod needed to extract the rimless cases from a flanged-chambered Ruger No.1.
I will use Hornady XTP .410/210-grainers at 2900 fps for plinking,
or the COW & pistol powder loads just to be making noise while making brass.

Headstamp?
$20?
Do you reckon Saeed has to tip customs agents that much to get his .375/404 Jeffery brass through the inspection,
if his headstamp just says
"norma 404 JEFFERY"
"norma 404 Riml.N.E."
or
"HORNADY 404 JEFFERY" ... ?

Well, if $20 is all it takes, I'll do it too, for the .410/404 JRNE!

Rip
.

Hornady 404 Jeffery above,
Hornady 450/400 NE 3" below,
shorten the below by 1/8" in the neck and change the flanged head to the rimless head of the 404 Jeffery, and
voila!
You get what that looks like by running the Hornady 404 Jeffery brass through a Hornady 450/400 NE 3" FL die.



Hornady 404 Jeffery brass is on sale at Midway USA.
I am getting a batch of it for the .410/404 Jeffery RNE.
This will help keep my brass sorted out amongst three headstamps:

"norma 404 JEFFERY": This the older Norma headstamp, I use it in a single 404 Jeffery rifle.

"norma 404 Riml.N.E.": This is the newer Norma headstamp, I use it in a single .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012 rifle.

"HORNADY 404 JEFFERY": This is now dedicated to the .410/404 JRNE.

I like Hornady brass. It is nice getting down to just one rifle in each chambering, with one batch of brass dedicated to it.

Of course, with a collection of take-off barrels, and three different headstamps on my brass,
I could backslide into chaos at any time. Knock wood.

Rip
.

My dog likes chewing on Hornady brass.
Just kidding (although she has done that).
It is a good system, leave a sticky note on your brass stash for your wife in case a golf ball sized embolus breaks loose.

RIP, he's my brother, and an incurable wildcatter. Daddy was always a sensible man, but the milkman had a big white beard, and a crazy gleam in his eye.

Now that I have a bolt-action .410/404 JRNE rifle, I am going to try just necking down the 404 Jeffery to accept .410 bullet,
and see if I get anymore head separations.
Headspacing on extractor?
The-COWboy-way of fire-forming with 22.0 grains of Universal Clays, will be tried, as well as bulleted fire-forming.
But any bullet for fire-forming will be a flat-based one in reverse, jammed into the lands
(headspacing on the bullet AND the extractor)
i.e., the .410/210-grain Hornady XTP over 75.0 grains of RL-7, for a modest 2930 fps (24" barrel of Ruger No.1 400 S Jeffery).
That may produce closer to 3000 fps in my new 26" Douglas barrel. I just could not bear to shorten it to 24", so I fickled on that plan,
could always shorten it later if it is shooting too fast.


At the first sign of any head separation I will go back to necking the 404 Jeffery brass up to .458 before necking down to .410.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************
Copied from other thread, to start the listing of bullets found at Midway USA that can be used in the .410/404 JRNE:

Well, now, the pictures at Midway USA of the Swift bullets are different, and they might have them mixed up:

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...sistedItemsPerPage=0

Swift A-Frame Bullets 400 Caliber (410 Diameter) 400 Grain Bonded Semi-Spitzer Box of 50:
$67.99, $1.36/Bullet, Available


Swift A-Frame Bullets 400 Caliber (410 Diameter) 350 Grain Bonded Semi-Spitzer Box of 50:
$67.99, $1.36/Bullet, Available


Larry, what's going on?

As you were.

Hornady Dangerous Game Bullets 400 Caliber (410 Diameter) 400 Grain DGX Flat Nose Expanding Box of 50:
Sale $48.49, $0.97/Bullet (Regular Price: $53.99) Save $5.50 (10%), Available


Hornady Dangerous Game Bullets 450-400 Nitro Express (410 Diameter) 400 Grain DGS Flat Nose Solid Box of 50:
Sale $47.49, $0.95/Bullet (Regular Price: $52.99) Save $5.50 (10%), Unavailable - Limited Production


Woodleigh Bullets 450-400 Nitro Express (410 Diameter) 400 Grain Bonded Weldcore Round Nose Soft Point Box of 50:
$62.99, $1.26/Bullet, Available


Woodleigh Bullets 450-400 Nitro Express (410 Diameter) 400 Grain Full Metal Jacket Box of 50:
$91.99, $1.84/Bullet. Out of Stock. Backorder OK. Date expected in stock: 03/15/2018


Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solid Bullets 450-400 Nitro Express 3" (410 Diameter) 400 Grain Box of 10:
$37.99, $3.80/Bullet, Available

********************************************************************************************************************************************

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I'll be interested in this too.
In the late '80s and early '90s the Swift A-Frame .375/300-grain always went to Kodiak in my .375 Weatherby.
Born about 1984 they were the hottest new hunting bullet for me back then.
They are still going strong, time for me to try them again.
Like a Nosler Partition on steroids, plenty accurate.
The only complaint I recall ever hearing from anyone was that their copper jackets might foul more than gilding metal.
Soft, ductile TOUGH copper is strong,
might have a higher coefficient of friction in the bore, might not allow top velocity for pressure, as Grenadier is noting.
Certainly not a problem for easily getting 2200 fps with 400-grainer in a 450/400 NE.

I never heard anyone say they did not expand reliably and retain weight with the best.
Exit holes on Kodiak deer were huge!
They would nearly cut a blacktail buck in two.

This Swift web site photo is a good representation of game-getting reality, IMHO:



I am more interested in the .410/350-grainer, got a couple of boxes for the .410/404 JRNE,
ought to be similar to the dearly beloved .375/300gr SAF.
But a .410/400-grainer will always be needed for duplicating the 400 S Jeffery classic load.

.410/350 SAF:



.410/400 SAF:



PS:
I did not know Swift made a .411-caliber, thought they were all .410-caliber.
Woodleigh makes both, if it matters.
Sure a .410-bullet in a .411-groove barrel is going to lose some pressure/velocity
compared to a bullet diameter matching the groove diameter.
But that tough partition and full-bearing copper jacket might still be a factor as suggested above.


PPS:
Get a load of the .410/400-grain "Break-Away Solid" from Swift:



Jacket is alloy not pure copper, and has a lead core,
and a polymer nipple,
to make it feed well,
breast feeding is always best!



"Break-Away® Solids will be available in 9 different calibers, from 9.3mm through 500 cal. For the past two years it has been in development and has hunted dangerous African game, including numerous elephant and buffalo, with outstanding results. It has been extensively field tested, with many hunters and PH’s throughout Africa.
The polymer tip provides flawless magazine feeding and Breaks-Away upon impact. The cavitated front end provides a perfectly straight wound channel. The proprietary metal, a rebated ogive, a short driving band, and a lead core, all make the Break-Away Solid very gentle on barrels. This is the most well tested, thought out solid ever developed."

https://www.swiftbullets.com/pages/bullets

Midway shows twenty .410-caliber handgun bullets:

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...sistedItemsPerPage=0

One of those is a favorite for plinking/fire-forming, and for squirrels and such:
Hornady XTP Bullets 41 Caliber (410 Diameter) 210 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 100:
Sale, $22.49 ($0.22/Bullet) Regular Price: $26.49 Save $4.00 (15%) Available


A few more rifle bullets of .411-caliber, that are easy to size down to .410, here:
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...sistedItemsPerPage=0
Including a 300-grainer:
Barnes Triple-Shock X (TSX) Bullets 405 Winchester (411 Diameter) 300 Grain Hollow Point Flat Base Lead-Free Box of 50:
Sale $42.99 ($0.86/Bullet) Regular Price: $47.99 Save $5.00 (10%) Available

And a 350-grainer:
Hornady InterLock Bullets 405 Caliber (411 Diameter) 300 Grain Soft Point Box of 50:
Sale $28.79 ($0.58/Bullet) Regular Price: $32.99 Save $4.20 (12%) Available


A .412-caliber/315-gr cast, hard-lead, GC bullet here:
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...sistedItemsPerPage=0
Hunters Supply Hard Cast Bullets 405 Winchester (412 Diameter) 315 Grain Lead Flat Nose, box of 250 bullets:
$57.99 ($0.23/Bullet) Available


26 of the .416-caliber bullets, most of which could be sized to .410 with a little elbow grease:
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...sistedItemsPerPage=0
Including these favorites:
Barnes Tipped Triple-Shock X (TTSX) Bullets 416 Caliber (416 Diameter) 350 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail Box of 50:
Sale $50.99 ($1.02/Bullet) Regular Price: $56.99 Save $6.00 (10%) Available


Speer Hot-Cor Bullets 416 Caliber (416 Diameter) 350 Grain Mag-Tip Box of 50:
$38.99 ($0.78/Bullet) Available


GSC:
A .410"/325-grain soft, 410325HV170: #25 $53.00 http://www.gscustomusa.com/410325HV170.html
Exactly like this:

1:16" or faster twist recommended, my twist is 1:14".


And a .410"/380-grain FN Solid, 410380FN107: #50 $80.00 http://www.gscustomusa.com/410380FN107.html
Exactly like this:

Recommended is a 1:13" or faster twist ...

Cutting Edge:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/
Cannot find .410-caliber bullets, just .408, .409, .411, and .416.
Maybe a custom order is necessary to get a .410-caliber bullet proper for a 1:14" twist.
I really don't think I could improve the Cutting Edge bullets by resizing them myself.
Not so with the Barnes and Speer .416-calibers.

North Fork:
http://www.northforkbullets.co.../bullets/?bweight=26
Four different types of .410/400-grainers:

Semi-Spitzer (SS)
Percussion Point (PP)
Flat Point Solid (FPS)
Cup Point Solid (CPS)

Here is what the North Fork Percussion Point bullet looks like in .375/300-gr PP (also available as .410/400gr PP):



What NF says about their PP:

"Percussion Point Designed for Large Cats!
June 23rd, 2012
North Fork created the Percussion Point (PP series) specifically for large felines. The bullet features an expansion initiating groove near the tip of the bullet that aides the bullet in opening quicker on thin skinned animals like leopards, lions etc… The groove is visible and can be felt allowing positive confirmation that you have the proper load for the proper game. The Percussion Points are designed to hit at the same point of impact as our standard soft points and solids allowing you to take one gun to really do it all."


Considering the possibles bag of many .408 to .416-caliber bullets for the .410/404 JRNE,
straight-out or re-sized,
there are more than I can shake a stick at!

Rip
.

I waffled again.
I necked up 100 Hornady cases to .458 then necked them all down to .410,
tight closing on the bolt action bolt.
No dramas.
Why fire-form with anything other than what I expect to be useful starting loads?
There is so little blow-out here.
Fire-forming loads will be hunting loads.

64.0 grains of was supposed to be a max load for RL-15 (Hornady manual) in the 450/400 NE 3",
supposed to give about 2050 fps with 400-grain Hornady RNSP.
It gave only about 2000 fps in my bolt-action,
certainly safe in an antique DR.
Maximal loads for antique DRs are my starting loads for bolt-action rifle.
But, I did not use a filler.

I will start over with 65.0 grains of Varget plus filler, and work up for a maximal bolt-action load.
Also will start with 71.0 grains of H4350 and work up.

If there is any air space in the case, it will be eliminated with filler.
That almost always increases velocity a wee bit and increases uniformity and accuracy, IMHO.

Rip
.

This old duffer punched some paper today:

.410/404 Jeffery RNE fire-formed with New Hornady 404 Jeffery brass:

No trimming. Final brass length after first firing with loads below = 2.865".
That is exactly the desired trim-to-length for the max brass length of 2.875".
Case mouths are square and uniform.
No dreaded doughnuts.
No neck turning or reaming required.
Easy-peasy.

26" barrel, Douglas #4 sporter, .410-groove/.402-bore, 1:14" twist.

All loads used F215 primer.

All loads used a 1" length of 1/2" diameter foam caulk-saver, caulk backing rod as filler.

All C.O.L.s were 3.600".

All powder charges were in the 76% to 78% volumetric powder fill range.

Less filler will be used as powder charge is increased.

Bullet was the Hornady .410/400-gr DGX, blems from Midway USA.

5 shots fired with each load, chronographed at 5 yards.
G1 BC = 0.325, so 8 fps was added to correct from 5-yard velocity to MV average.


Varget 65.0 grains >>> 2092 fps MV, Sd = 10 fps
Varget 66.0 grains >>> 2104 fps MV, Sd = 7 fps

H4350 71.0 grains >>> 2075 fps MV, Sd = 8 fps
H4350 72.0 grains >>> 2091 fps MV, Sd = 7 fps

20 rounds fired, time to clean the barrel before next round.
Not bad for fire-forming.
This cartridge is R.I.P. certified, and I am certifiable.

Rip
.

Using a 1-inch long plastic worm compressed over a 75% to 78% filled case with Varget and H4350:
This leaves a gooey residue of melted foam on the case mouths,
but it does not fully seal the case mouths so the necks still get slightly smoked at such low pressures.

I don't like it.

I am thinking this cartridge with 400-grainer is sort of like a miniature .416 Rigby, regarding internal ballistics.
105 gr of H4831 works wonders with any 380-410 grain bullets in the .416 Rigby, no filler.
That is the old John Buhmiller load for the .416 Rigby,
adopted by Jack O'Connor for his .416 Rigby shooting,
and what I killed my first cape buffalo with in Botswana in 2001,
in the halcyon days, pre-911.

I am going to start with 85.0 grains of H4831SC and work up, no fillers.
Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!

If that does not get me to +2400 fps then a full case of H4350 surely will.
No-filler loads are appealing to me now.
This ain't no fragile double rifle.

Surely "sumbuddy who know" has hot-loaded a Ruger No.1 450/400 NE 3" to top velocity?
This is a bolt-action version of that.

Rip
.

You'll get there Rip, You should beat 2400fps. How about a pic of the fireformed case

Double BC,

Thanks for the reply.
I am not messing with Photopucker anymore.
But they have not shutdown my photos here yet.

Look back at the top of page 2 of this thread and you will see pictures of several different fire-forming methods.
One of them shows the Hornady brass fire-formed with COW.
The latest ones look the same.

Nice to have a bolt-action brass-maker now.
No more ramrod-ejection of rimless cases from a flanged-chambered Ruger No.1.

I will fire-form some Hornady brass using 85 and 86 grains of H4831SC and .410/400gr Hornady DGX blem bullets.
It's a start to get my bearings with H4831SC.

Also will try 76.0 and 77.0 grains of Benchmark to see how it compares to 75.0 grains of RL-7,
with the .410/210-gr Hornady XTP, of course.
The latter gave 2930 fps with the 210-grainer.
I may need to drop down to H4198 to get 3400 fps.

I will know I am there when I see a blue puff of smoke halfway to the target.


Rip
.

Changed my mind to use H4831 "Long Cut" instead of the SC.
I want a full to mildly compressed load, no fillers.

Also, I have more of the old, discontinued Hornady RNSP .410/400gr on hand than any other .410-caliber/400-grain bullet.
It is not a steel-jacketed bullet like the DGX, so, I might keep pressures down by using up the old bullets,
at least while I am sorting out some H4831 fire-forming loads:









Oh yeah, I need a picture of the actual rifle, instead of the donor rifle previously shown ...
pending sunup, before the total eclipse tomorrow.

Rip
.

Her name is "Eclipsia" and she weighs 10.0 lbs with scope and rings as shown,
her favorite outfit.
8 lbs 15 oz in her birthday suit.

Six rounds of ammo in the box with the bolt closed adds another 11 oz.
If I am going to keep her under 10.75 lbs field-ready, must avoid Mauser-pinching that 7th round into the chamber.
She is a slick feeding six-shooter without that bother.
Load the box with six rounds, close the bolt, ready to go bang, under 10.75 pounds.



Gunsmith may have been laughing as he stamped this one?



Here is the fire-formed brass from this rifle so far,
started with the double-rifle-type loads using Varget and H4350 with F-215 primer and foam wad filler
in Hornady 404 Jeffery brass for fire-forming,
with Hornady .410/400-gr DGX steel-jacketed, soft-nose bullets,
COL 3.600".

Varget 66.0 grains >>> 2104 fps MV, 26" barrel, 5-shot Sd = 7 fps

H4350 72.0 grains >>> 2091 fps MV, 26" barrel, 5-shot Sd = 7 fps



Standard deviation of 7 fps for 5 shots with both loads is not bad for fire-forming.
Might be even more consistent with fully formed brass.
After I get 120 pieces fire-formed and fired a second time as final loads,
will anneal the whole batch and trim them to 2.865" minimum, 2.875" maximum,
aiming for a happy median of 2.870".

The same loads in the 450/400 NE 3" can be up to COL 3.750", with brass trim-to-length of 2.990".
The DGX bullet was listed in the Hornady manual as giving 3.685" COL in the 450/400 NE 3", with comment:
"...it's important to crimp the case mouth tightly on the cannelure as this will aid in ignition and help provide consistent performance."

The A-Square Manual shows some pressure data with H4831 in the 450/400 NE 3":
26" barrel of 1:15" twist RH, .410-groove/.400-bore, 7-groove, groove width 0.140"
CCI-250 primer
No COL specified other than max 3.750" shown in cartridge drawing.
Bullet: .409"-diameter/400-grain Dead Tough

H4831 84.0 grains >>> 2080 fps (Sd 33 fps) >>> Avg Pressure 29,900 psi (Sd 1400 psi)

H4831 87.0 grains >>> 2187 fps (Sd 20 fps) >>> Avg Pressure 35,300 psi (Sd 2900 psi)

Well, I have a .410"-groove/.402"-bore, which is looser than their .410"/.400" barrel.
That is the biggest difference of my rifle from theirs.
But I am using .410"-diameter bullets instead of .409".
Their CCI-250 versus my F-215 primer.
Their lot of H4831 versus mine.
Compensating factors ...

Onward to 400 S Jeffery Rimless loads for the bolt-action rifle.
I am crimping those at COL 3.580" for the old Hornady RNSP .410/400 grainer.
I am barely starting to compress the H4831 "Long Cut" at 94.0 grains.
But I could always switch over to H4831SC if I run out of space.
I can put extra cannelures on bullets or use banded bullets allowing crimping out to 3.8" COL with the pointy bullets.
There are diminishing returns on that, however, the cases will be a little bigger after they are fire-formed.
Will quit at 2450 fps or pressure problems, whichever comes first.

Rip
.

Did it.

This cartridge is being re-named to:

".410/404 JEFFERY RIMLESS NITRO ECLIPSE"

so "410/404 JRNE" still matches barrel

and for fun: "The 410 ECLIPSE"

Why?
Not because its groups look like single black holes,
but rather because the 89.0-grain load gave MV of 2260 fps with standard deviation of ZERO fps for three shots.
It eclipsed the velocity variance on that load, total eclipse!
Extreme spread of 0.0 fps.
I finished up with 94.0 grains having MV average for three shots = 2382 fps, Sd = 2 fps.
Anytime the Sd in fps is less than the number of shots fired with that load,
I am very happy that that load,
even if only three shots were fired.

I predict the following, if I dare to fire-form with higher charges:
95.0 grains >>> 2409 fps MV
96.0 grains >>> 2437 fps MV
97.0 grains >>> 2464 fps MV

With brass all blown out,
I'll just start at 92.0 grains and work up:

Chronographing with 25-yard targets is fun.
At least it shows that the rifle wants to shoot.
The nut behind the trigger is the only problem with this rifle.







Rip
.

Happy smiles Rip. Now you have to go kill something.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
Happy smiles Rip. Now you have to go kill something.

Bison is always on the menu/agenda.
Will camp on outskirts of Denver, CO (at Son's house), and haul the meat to a processor nearby.

Rip
.

Those Kentucky Squirrels won't know what hit them when 210 grain pistol bullets come at them at 3k+! Splatter and fur

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Those Kentucky Squirrels won't know what hit them when 210 grain pistol bullets come at them at 3k+! Splatter and fur

Dang straight! You got that right!
I will make it a point to squirrel hunt with the new girl, Eclipsia.

Since RL-7 at 75.0 grains gave 2937 fps with that Hornady XTP 210-grain squirrel-barking bullet,
I am going to do another workup with Hodgdon BENCHMARK, starting at 75.0 grains.
Will stop at 3400 fps, pressure signs, or whenever a blue puff of smoke appears halfway to target.
I might have to back up to 50 yards from target for next set.
Hoping to see the vanishing bullet phenomenon.
I'll do 50 more cases thataway, then start over with a set of fully fire-formed cases,
for serious squirrel and bison huntin'.

Rip
.

Oops. Centerfire rifle for squirrel is illegal in KY.
Will have to go for groundhog &
coyote with the .410 Eclipse varmint load.

The pre-fire-forming case capacity with Hornady brass is 112.7 grains gross water.
Fire-forming increases it to only 113.8 grains.
Rip
.

After chronographing some Hornady .458 WinMag Superformance loads, the 50 rounds of light-bulleted .410 JRNE were downright pleasurable yesterday.

I worked up in one grain increments from 75.0 to 84.0 grains of Hodgdon BENCHMARK,
5 rounds of each load, 10 loads.
BENCHMARK is a lot slower than my lot of RL-7.
But it did OK.
I popped them off as fast as I could and allowed 5 minutes cooling between each group.
Temperature was 80 F when I finished.
This was initial fire-forming of new Hornady brass that averaged 2.870" long as die formed.
F-215 primer.
Hornady .410-cal./210-grain XTP bullets with BC of .189. Whoo-hoo!
COL 3.180" crimped on cannelure.
No fillers used, loads were about 75% to 90% volumetric fill, would benefit from filler.

75.0 grains >>> 2612 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 16 fps >>> 0.788" group @ 25 yards (vertical stringing)

76.0 grains >>> 2684 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 25 fps >>> 0.562" group @ 25 yards

77.0 grains >>> 2727 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 49 fps >>> 0.455" group @ 25 yards (worst Sd, accuracy not bad)

78.0 grains >>> 2824 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 16 fps >>> 0.377" group @ 25 yards (big step in velocity, most accurate)

79.0 grains >>> 2879 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 23 fps >>> 0.558" group @ 25 yards

80.0 grains >>> 2924 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 8 fps >>> 0.797" group @ 25 yards (best Sd/worst accuracy, pulled one right)

81.0 grains >>> 2987 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 12 fps >>> 0.466" group @ 25 yards

82.0 grains >>> 3019 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 20 fps >>> 0.656" group @ 25 yards

83.0 grains >>> 3052 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 20 fps >>> 0.678" group @ 25 yards

84.0 grains >>> 3139 fps MV >>> 5-shot Sd = 22 fps >>> 0.540" group @ 25 yards

Now that I have about 120 fire-formed Hornady cases,
time for final loads in fully formed brass.

I ought to be able to get close enough to this:
2400 fps with 400-grainer and 95.0 grains of H4831: Mildly compressed.
3200 fps with 210-grainer and 85.0 grains of BENCHMARK: Will add foam wad filler to eliminate air space,
improve Sd and accuracy.

I really don't need to vaporize those varmint bullets, close to 3200 fps should be plenty,
good enough for groundhog at 250 yards, eh?


Squirrel season is coming ... GOR
Rip
.

A 0.5" 5-shot group at 25 yards might be a 2.0" group at 100 yards.
I gotta do better than that!
That's where the 3-shot 100-yard group comes in.
Here's hoping that using a filler in the ~90%-filled loads with Benchmark will improve the accuracy and uniformity,
and might even add a little pressure and velocity,
and maybe the bullets will "go to sleep" beyond 25 yards.








There is nothing of concern here, IMHO:



I am going to do the next shoot of the .410 Eclipse with

Varmint load: 85.0 grains of BENCHMARK, filler, 210-grain XTP.
and
Big game load: 95.0 grains of H4831 and 400-grain Hornady DGX.

Will try some other bullets after that.

Squirrel season is coming ... GOR
Rip
.

I figured I better try some filler with my previous maximum varmint load,
before just adding more powder,
so I added a 1/2"-long foam wad snipped from 1/2" diameter caulk-saver rod.

Surprise!
Faster than I expected, and suitable accuracy for groundhogs from zero to 200 yards.

84.0 grains of BENCHMARK.
Filler as above.
Hornady 404 Jeffery brass, once-fired, to fire-form to .410/404 JRN Eclipse.
Brass still measures 2.865" to 2.870" with no trimming as yet (max brass length = 2.875")
F-215 primer.
Hornady XTP .410/210-grain handgun bullet, BC = 0.182, not 0.189.
15 shots chronographed with Oehler 35P at 5 yards, corrected to MV:

Mean MV = 3259 fps
Sd for 15 shots = 16 fps, not bad.
75 degrees F.

If I go much faster, the bullets will turn into smoke.

Accuracy for 3 shots at 50 yards = 1/2" center-to-center
About 1 MOA.
OK for groundhogs out to 200 yards.

The scope is zeroed 1/4" high at 50 yards
+1" @ 100 yards
-1" @ 200 yards
maximum ordinate is +1.05" @ 110-115 yards.

Of course this is going to require 2 scopes.
One for groundhogs (Leupold 2.5-8x36mm)
and another one for elephant braining/DGR work:
Fixed-power 1X to 2.5X or variable in 1X to 5X range,
1" or 30mm tube,
many suitable scopes.
Or just a second Leupold 2.5-8x36mm.
Both will be in standard/OEM CZ rings.

Now to switch from H4831 "Long Cut" to H4831-SC,
start over at 94.0 grains with 400-grainer, and see if 95 grains gets to +2400 fps.
One is supposed to be able to interchange the LC and SC at same charge weights.
That will be another good Missouri Mule exercise,
and a chance to zero that second scope.


Rip
.