Also I will appreciate info form others with experience in the following area.
I do know that michael458 has done a bunch of .458 bullet testing, and many of you have shot game with .458 diameter bullets as have I over the years.

Here is the situation, I recently aquired a Wilson AR 458 SOCOM. [I really like this little light weight rifle.]

From what I have gathered many people use the 300gr Remington or the 300gr Hornady HP for deer and pigs. These bullets shoot great in my rifle.

However I am looking for a bullet that is a little stouter for raking shots on pigs, say when walking them up, and on black bear over bait, and elk in thick cover.

This rifle also shoots the 350 Hornady RN and the Speer 400gr FN, and the SBR 350gr Factory loads into the same group at 100 yards, as the 300gr loads.
The 350gr Hornady RN may give me the penetration I am seeking, but I have also considered the North Fork 325 or 350 CPF, or their 350 FN Soft, I do have some of them, but have not tried them yet as they are for my 450 No2, or even one of the Cutting edge bullets.

Real world velocites with 300gr bullets are 1700 to maybe 1800, with the 350's 1500 to maybe 1650fps. I have not cronoed them yet, but I am not loading them as hot as some on the internet seem to be doing, as I think they are way overloading their rifles, baised on the Powder makers/bullet makers data that is slowly trickling out.

So baised on those velocities, what do you think are sone good bullet choices to look at?


My 458 SOCOM shoots plenty good [I have only an EO Tech red dot mounted on it now not a scope.]

NE,

While it’s a long thread, the Terminal Bullet Performance Thread pinned at the top of the BB Forum has a wealth of information that is usable for you. And basically any bullet that Michael uses in his 458 B&M SS should work perfectly in your 458 Socom



But the bullet that just might be perfect for you is the 300gr Barnes TTSX





Good luck…

Hi NE450#2

You present a bit of a issue. First, you have some limiting factors, velocity, and probably case capacity too. I did some very low velocity work on some of these .458s some time ago. And, something else I am not sure of how one loads the 458 Socom, and it's capacity, seating depth and so forth.

With some of the stout bullets, like the Barnes TSX, the blue tip bullet, and the 295 BBW#13, all monos, they are going to take up some case capacity I would think, and might be an issue getting them to the same velocity as the 300 Remingtons and Hornadys. I would rule out the 295 BBW#13 because of the starting velocity and shear point around 1500 fps.

At some of the lower impact velocities I got with the 300 Remington, while they held together great, the penetration was limited and I don't think would give enough penetration to meet your expectations. And as crazy as it sounds, same with the Barnes TSX! Depending on how deep in the case you would have to seat the TSX, and limited velocity, I don't think it would be up to those penetration standards either!

The work I have done in the 458 B&M Super Short can't really be compared at velocity as it is so much higher than the Socom velocity would be.

The 350 Hornady is a great bullet, but at impacts below 1500-1600 fps it does not reliably open up at all, no expansion at that velocity. So while you would get penetration, you get little else from it. And would actually be better off with a 325 #13 Solid. Shooting these, and the 400s out to 100 yds and starting at 1500 or less, you are going to be way down on impact velocity.

The low velocity work done with the 300 Remington and the 300 TSX penetration was from 9 inches to 13 inches depending on impact velocity reaching up to 1200-1300 fps and as low as 800 fps.

300 TSX did not open much at this velocity



300 Blue tip did a bit better, but penetration limited.


300 Remington did not do so bad at this velocity in the penetration area.


Much of these impact velocities would be close to what you are looking at with the Socom, I think, at various ranges you might encounter.

I also worked the 325 HOrnady Flex bullet, and in the area of penetration it did better than the other bullets in my opinion, and as much trauma as any of the others. One does not get a lot of trauma at lower velocity at any rate, not even in .458 caliber. So penetration becomes important.





The 325 North Fork CPS might also have a feeding issue in your rifle?? I don't know. Case Capacity and velocity might be an issue. It opens nicely at 45/70 velocity and it will give you all the penetration you would want. I have a fellow that is hell bent on buffalo with 45/70. I plan to send him with 325 North Fork CPS backed up with 325 BBW#13 Solids. Feeding and enough velocity for it to open is the issue with it in the Socom. If you could get it to work? Running it at enough velocity to get reasonable expansion might be a problem.

The 350 North Fork premium will give the penetration, but not a lot of expansion at these velocities.








What would or might almost be ideal for your situation would be a 300 gr North Fork Premium--But alas there is not one of those!

I have a 250 gr BBW#13 NoNCon being done, but I don't think that will work either because of low shear velocity rates.

Right now, possibly the best solution to cover many bases, would be a combination of the 325 Hornady Flex and I think I would have a magazine of 325 BBW#13 Solids, or some in the same magazine to back up the 325 Hornady! There are two 325 #13s, one designed for the lever guns, and one designed for the Super Shorts. Long and short nose versions.

Too bad that sometimes these things are a compromise between many factors, and more so by the limitations involved.

Hope that helps a bit anyway.

Michael

Hey All,

We do make a 300gr North Fork Flat Nose Bonded bullet in .458. It is on the website. Designed like the 350gr. Used a lot overseas in the .458 Blaser. Excellent for the .458 SOCCOM. From a Marlin Guide Gun, it reaches 2200fps easy. Really wicked when it hits, sounds like a 2X4 hitting a brick wall.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbulets.com

quote:

Originally posted by North Fork:
Hey All,

We do make a 300gr North Fork Flat Nose Bonded bullet in .458. It is on the website. Designed like the 350gr. Used a lot overseas in the .458 Blaser. Excellent for the .458 SOCCOM. From a Marlin Guide Gun, it reaches 2200fps easy. Really wicked when it hits, sounds like a 2X4 hitting a brick wall.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbulets.com

John

Somehow I missed out on that one, I thought the 350 was the smallest Bonded Premium.

quote:

What would or might almost be ideal for your situation would be a 300 gr North Fork Premium--But alas there is not one of those!

Then for this particular situation I revise my recommendation--Absolutely, a 300 North Fork premium bonded would be my first choice. I will still follow up with a 325 #13 Solid in this cartridge.

John, sent you an email the other day, about a lighter weight .500 premium as well???

Michael

Michael now you have something to do! I can't believe there is a bullet you didn't know about or had not tested!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael now you have something to do! I can't believe there is a bullet you didn't know about or had not tested!

Somehow that one slipped by me. I really should check my North Fork stock on the shelves too! Holy Cow, what if I already have some, and forgot about them??


OK OK, checked my NF .458 Inventory--Plenty of 350 Premiums, 325 CPS, but no 300 Premiums! Whew, might have thought I was loosing what little I had remaining??? Mind that is!

Yes, I think I must have some of these in inventory!

M

I'm getting to like the Barnes bullets more and more . The Corbon SOCOM load is 300 TTSX at 1825, though that's out of a 26" barrel. Try it.

Michael, you now have something new to roll around the floor on!

Let us know how the 300 grainers "feel".

quote:

Originally posted by whelenite:
Michael, you now have something new to roll around the floor on!

Let us know how the 300 grainers "feel".

I was on the phone with my boy John from North Fork yesterday! I have 200 of those 300 gr North Fork Premium Bonded on the way! We will give them a hell of a workout when they arrive and just see how good they do at various velocities. And will be paying particular attention to 1300-1700 fps for 450 #2.

Of course, I am also thinking about the 458 Super Short as well, at much higher velocities.

I will try and not get any stuck in the wrong place whilst I roll about in them "Naked"

Michael, thanks for the info and the pictures. Somehow I missed the posts on this thread.


Looking foward to the results on the 300gr NF.

Many SOCOM users are reporting excellent results on deer and pigs with the Barnes Blue Tip. You do have to load it with less powder than the RP and Hornady 300 grain bullets, but it still seem to open up quite a bit at low velocity, which I think like you that penetration would be a problem with a raking shot.

On the 350RN Hornadays.
I loaded some of them up to test mainly because I have a bunch of them, and I figured they would give little if any expansion, and be good for raking shots on pigs when walking them up close. I also had a few of the 350 FN I got from my brother, but they shot several inches higher.

I also may have to try some of the 325 NF CUP point bullets for a penetrater load. I think they would feed ok as the Speer 400gr FN has fed ok so far.

quote:

I also may have to try some of the 325 NF CUP point bullets for a penetrater load. I think they would feed ok as the Speer 400gr FN has fed ok so far.

NE450#2

Case length, and magazine length of the Socom? Wonder how deep you have to seat that 325 North Fork CPES?

Also, just thought on the thread in Lever Guns about the 350 Speer too, excellent excellent bullet! But I don't have any low velocity work with it, and will do so when I do the 300 North Forks. Just don't let me forget and we will find out about that one too for this application.

If you want, send me a PM, with an address, I will put together a few of these bullets for you to check for seating depth, case capacity and so forth. North Fork CPES, and some others. Mind find something that would work great, or find out that they won't work, one or the other I am sure.

Michael

Michael

Case length of a new Starline case is 1.574.
OAL of a round loaded with a Remington 300gr HP seated is 2.012

OAL of a SBR [Southern Ballistic Research] factory 350gr bullet is 2.170.
This is a pointed bullet with a small Flat Point on the nose. They told me they make that bullet in house.

I measured several different kinds of AR 15 Magazines, some Aliminium some Plastic, the steel H&K and the Canadan Molded mag.

I would want to keep the OAL of loaded rounds under 2.200 as not to rub the bullet on the front of the magazine, maybe even around 2.190.

So you can see there is plenty of room in the magazine in front of the 300grain bullets.

I seat all the bullets to the middle of the cannelure, and apply a very mild crimp.

I will PM you my address.

The Barnes TTSX, the blue tip, was allegedly designed for the 458 SOCOM.

Acording to those that have shot game with it it has done very well.

You can not use near as much powder with it as you can the Remington or Hornady 300gr HP's because it seats a lot deaper in the case, and that raises pressures.

I load 31.5gr of H110 behind the RP and the Hornady 300gr bullets. Barnes lists a max of 28 grains of H110 and 29 grains of WW296 for a velocity of 1719fps in a 16" barrel, with the 296.

Many of the internet loads are quite a bit higher.

Above 31.5gr I started to see pressure signs on the head of the case with the RP and Hornady bullets.
I do beleive many of the loads I have seen on the internet are a too high a pressure.

Of course there are 2 different length gas systems on 458 SOCOM's. Some are Carbine length, like mine and others are mid length.

Some of the guys with mid length gas system guns report that thier guns do not run well with the faster powders like H110 and 296, many are using IMR 4198 and RL7.

The H110 loads shot better with the 300gr bullets that the load I tried with IMR 4198, 38.5grains, but I use IMR 4198 with the 350gr, 36.5gr, and with the 400 gr bullets, 35 grains.

These loads do not show high pressure and they all shoot to the same place at 100 yards.

I have not cronoed them yet.

quote:

The Barnes TTSX, the blue tip, was allegedly designed for the 458 SOCOM.
Acording to those that have shot game with it it has done very well.
You can not use near as much powder with it as you can the Remington or Hornady 300gr HP's because it seats a lot deaper in the case, and that raises pressures.

NE450#2

My thoughts exactly, case capacity and velocity. But we can see that it does operate very good at 1000 to 1350 fps impacts. Penetration? For what you want on broadside deer or pigs, I would say no issue, but raking I don't know?

As for pressures with IMR 4198, RL 7 as well, I doubt you can get enough powder in the case to start running much pressure. But not sure how much pressure the 458 Socom in an AR is upper limits either. I found with all my Super Shorts one just could not get enough powder to raise pressures.

I also had very good luck in all the Super Shorts with LilGun. In fact, it has become #1 in those, followed by WW296. Might want to take a look at that as well. More velocity, less powder, and lower pressures. ??????

Getting some samples out today for you to look at and make some dummy rounds to check.

Michael

Michael

Thanks.

A lot of the 458 SOCOM shooter are using Lil Gun powder. So far I have been happy with H110 and IMR 4198, especially since I have several loads that hit the same place at 100 yards. It makes switching between bullets for testing on animals very easy.

Also I use these powders for loading other cartridges.

I will see if I can find some valid pressures for the SOCOM.

Hey NE450
No man, no thanks needed. I went through some of the things I had and put some samples, around 3 each, in a bag and they went out today via USPS. I sent some North Fork 325 CPES, Two varieties of 325 #13 Solids, LG and SS, Hornady 325 Flex, 350 Speers, 300 Barnes blue tips and seems something else. But regardless samples on the way for you to check out.

I may be able to get to some low velocity work on some this week, depends on the schedule and what comes up.

Michael

NE450

OK, I have a question for you!

I have a guy that wants to put a 458 B&M Super Short on an AR. He has access to the AR bolts that were done in the super shorts, and action I think as well. The rounds fit perfect in a standard AR mag, single stack, I am sure there would be some tweaking done to make it work no doubt. But my question is how much pressure can an AR handle? 55000--65000 PSI????

I have the same question with that BIG AR 10 that the 50 B&M SA and 458 B&M SA are based on as well. I just don't know how much pressure these guns are rated for, so I have been a little hesitant about taking them to full on loads as in the bolt guns?

Any thoughts on that?
Michael

Michael

Here is some datas I have ben able to find on the 458 SOCOM.

The 458 SOCOm design pressure parameters were designed to be 35k psi.

The 223 is 55k psi, to keep the bolt thrust the same, because of the .475 dia case head on the SOCOM its max pressure is 35k psi.

Many of the load I have fund that do have pressure data show loads even with over 34k to be too hot.

The SOCOM uses large Pistol primers, most are using either CCI 350 or WWLP. I use WWLP, again because I have them on hand, and I can use them for regular or magnum handgun loads.

And as you know they do not shot high pressure signs till around 45k psi n or so.

Many people report "bolt head swipes" as the first sogh of high pressure, which is sighns of the ejector on the bolt head of the case.

I do not know how hard the Starline SOCOM is, so I do not know at what pressure these signs manefest theirselves.

What is the head size of the bigger B&M cartridges you are considering for the AR10?

One advantage of the 458 SOCOM, is that it is in the AR 15 size package, which is a lot lighter and handier than the AR10 size platform.

Also a lot more prevelent, and is just an upper switch, same buffer, and recoil spring, same magazines. The upper ejection port does have to be opened up a bit.

In an AR10, you could easially duplicate the concept of the 458 SOCOM.

First the case would have to be wide enough to single stack in the magazine, for a straight line feed, and no magazine modifications.
It will greatly help feeding if the bullet diameter is smaller than the diameter of the case. You could either open up the bolt head to a larger diameter, say the Short Mag case head size, and have a rebated rim like the SOCOM.

I do not know what the max case head size for an AR10 would be do not have one here to measure. But the larger the case heasd size the more material removed from the bolt head and the weaker the bolt lugs, IMHO.

This is one reasons I have been very careful not to use many the loads people on the "net" claim to be useing, as I plan to shoot and hunt with my SOCOM a lot, and do not want to break anything or cause undue ware.

But, with the increased case capacity of a single feed "fat" case in an AR10, I think you could get a fairly powerful BIG bore cartridge for an AR 10.
One guy, McCann Industries if I remember correctly, was making M1 Garands in 458 Win Mag.

NE450

We already have the 50 B&M SA and 458 B&M SA on rifles, and have been shooting hell out of them. The two I have are both DPMS AR10s, that were built in 300 RSAUM to begin with. Both 50 B&M SA and 458 are 2 inch RUM cases. Those are pretty easy conversions. Both 18 inch barrels and both are WAY TOO HEAVY for any use at all except to play with. These are not really mine kind of thing, and I do admit I have not put much effort or time into them. JD wanted to build them so we did. I think there are several other folks with them right now. I have done a little data, but not a lot.

I have messed with the 50 more than the 458, but the basic jest is with the 50--.500 caliber, running 300 gr bullets 2400 fps, 325s at 2365 fps, 350s up to 2300 fps. I have not put much effort into any heavier bullets.

The 458 BMSA the SA stands for Semi-Auto, just fyi, I have done even less with 300s at 2440 fps, 325s at 2340 fps, 350s up to 2200 fps.

Personally I just don't care for the guns much, big and heavy at 10 lbs. Shoot great, lot's of fun on the range, but I would not want to carry one very far.

Now the boy that wants us to build a 458 Super Short on a AR 15 package, might be pretty neat. Using action and bolt face of the WSSM cartridge. All B&M super Shorts are WSM cut cases to 1.65 inches. So bolt face is the same. One of these with a 16-18 inch barrel might be pretty spiffy, depending on pressure limits of the rifle itself.

I don't know if I can work up the energy to mess with it however. I might just start playing with the 458 B&MSA and see how far I can take it?

THanks
Michael

A "Fat" case for an AR10:

I do not have an AR10 Mag here but "eyeballing" a M14 magazine, which is about the same as some of the AR10 varients, the fat case would have to ba around .825 in diameter to single feed properly.
The case body could be around .880 long till the neck starts.

I do not know what the diameter of your bigger cases are, but a 577 Nitro Express and the 600 Nitro Express case will fit single stack in a M14 magazine, I just now checked the fit.

So some case of around these diameters [no smaller than the 577NE], with the proper bolt head and neck in the proper location would possibly work.

This sized case necked down to 458 or 500 cal would be serious business for an AR10, no doubt.

When I first saw a 450 SOCOM round in an AR 15 magazine I wondered why they did not make the case longer so that a 300gr RP HP seated to the cannelure did not take up all the length avialable in the magazine.
This would have given more powder capacity, and they could have got more velocity with the same pressure.

Just like in the Huge 450 No2 NE case, where I can get more velocity with a 500gr bullet, at less pressure than a 458 Win Mag.

In fact eve wioth original Cordite loading from back in the day the 450 No2 had less pressure than the other NE cartridges.

Back to the 458 SOCOM.

One of the disadvangages of any of the monolithic bullets is that they are long for weight, because they have no lead.

This is the problem with the Barnes TTSX Blue Tip in the 458 SOCOM when seated to the OAL most people are seating it too.
Also the fact that it is pointed adds to its length.

However I see no reason, asuming throat length is long enough, that the Mono bullets could not be seated out as long as near 2.250.
The 300gr RP bullets seated to the cannelure are 2.16.
The extra OAL would allow more powder and the same pressure for more velocity.

That is IF they will feed and chamber. I will check this out when I get the bullets you are sending me.

NE450

Yes, these DPMS guns came with 4 round magazines, fit for 300 RSAUM, so putting a 2 inch long RUM case, stuffing .500 and .458 bullets was very simple. To get both to feed, only took simple magazine lip manipulation, and they are and have been good to go since. My 458 is at SSK now having a couple of extra magazines fitted to it. The 50 B&MSA works perfect with several different bullets. Even feeds and shoots BBW#13s.

Here they are;

One limiting factor about the "AR10 Fat Case", is I do not know what the max diameter of a chamber you can have on the barrel of an AR10, as I do not have one here to measure.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Back to the 458 SOCOM.

One of the disadvangages of any of the monolithic bullets is that they are long for weight, because they have no lead.

This is the problem with the Barnes TTSX Blue Tip in the 459 SOCOM when seated to the OAL most people are seating it too.
Also the fact that it is pointed adds to its length.

However I see no reason, asuming throat length is long enough, that the Mono bullets could not be seated out as long as near 2.250.
The 300gr RP bullets seated to the cannelure are 2.16.
The extra OAL would allow more powder and the same pressure for more velocity.

That is IF they will feed and chamber. I will check this out when I get the bullets you are sending me.

I concur 100%, and exactly some of the things I was thinking, and the reason I wanted to send those samples so you could see what was going to fit and chamber, then you could continue on the proper path to get what you wanted out of it. If you can get the North Fork and the BBW#13s to work in the gun, might well be on our way to achieving those goals, and then we check out that premium North Fork 300 gr.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
NE450

Yes, these DPMS guns came with 4 round magazines, fit for 300 RSAUM, so putting a 2 inch long RUM case, stuffing .500 and .458 bullets was very simple. To get both to feed, only took simple magazine lip manipulation, and they are and have been good to go since. My 458 is at SSK now having a couple of extra magazines fitted to it. The 50 B&MSA works perfect with several different bullets. Even feeds and shoots BBW#13s.

Here they are;

Nice.

Definately puts the AR 10 in a new power catagory.

I really need to put a bit more effort into seeing what these guns can really do. The 50 BMSA can equal and has the same case capacity as a 50 Alaskan, or 50 B&M Alaskan. Same with the 458 BMSA. I am quite sure that I have not reached top end load yet.

Killing power of "Big Bores".
Even the "little Big Bores".

Most people that have never used one or not used one much, would not believe just how effective they are.

Lets just take whitetail deer.
I have killed whitetail deer with several different cartridges, up to and including the 450 No2, including several different small bore [under .338] magnums, such as the 257 WBY, 264 Win Mag, 7MM Rem mag, 300 Win Mag and the 300 WBY.

However,my first centerefire rifle and thus my first deer rifle, was a Ruger 44 Magnum Carbine, I got in the mid 1960's.

I killed a bunch of deer with this rifle over the years. I started out with the various 44 Mag 240gr jacketed factory loads then loaded up various 240gr jacketed bullets over 2400 and H 110.

In later years I have killed a bunch of deer with a 308.

I can say, that out to 125 yards a 44 Mag rifle with 240gr jacketed bullets, HP or SP, kills deer as fast, [and faster than most] all the other cartridges I have ever used.
A 240gr jacketed bullet at @1700 to 1800 muzzle velocity.
With this rifle I always got complete penetration.
I did recover part of a Hornady 225 FTX bullet at the exit site of a 240ln pig I shot with that factory load out of a 44 Mag rifle a couple of years ago.
It kills deer, and the few pigs I have shot and seen shot with the 44 Mag way beyond what its "paper" ballistics would suggest.

So my thoughts about the 458 SOCOM are, that is has more power/thump, what ever you want to call it than a 44 Mag rifle, almost as much as some loads in a 45/70, [which I have used on a lot of deer too]. While I plan to use it on deer and pigs, and maybe a black bear, it also approximates the power of the bigger handgun rounds, lile the 454C, 475L, etc, and people even shoot BIG bears with them...

And this rifle is accurate, light, handy, rugged and reliable, and fun to shoot.

But the KEY to ANY cartridge/rifle combination is the BULLET.
It does all the work.

You want a bullet that will give you plenty enough penetration, with as much expansion as possible, for the game you will be hunting, at the ranges you will be shooting, and at the angles into the animal you might have to shoot.

quote:

Killing power of "Big Bores".
Even the "little Big Bores".

Those that have only worked with mediums or small bores get some enlightenment when moving up in bore size.

Caliber makes a difference!

I am not a deer hunter nor pig hunter. But enough of other similar critters to concur with you on this.

Choice of bullets can have a lot to do with trauma inflicted, on the lighter species, big expanding bullet gets big reactions when hit.

quote:

But the KEY to ANY cartridge/rifle combination is the BULLET.
It does all the work.

100% Correct! One must make the right choices if one expects to be successful in the field.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I really need to put a bit more effort into seeing what these guns can really do. The 50 BMSA can equal and has the same case capacity as a 50 Alaskan, or 50 B&M Alaskan. Same with the 458 BMSA. I am quite sure that I have not reached top end load yet.

Just looking at the pictures, a 458 B&M SA or 50 B&M SA could be used in a Winchester 70 WSM action.

16" to 18" barrel

You could then use CEB tipped in the magazine.

A option to the Winchester 70 WSSM guns that are getting harder to get.

quote:

Just looking at the pictures, a 458 B&M SA or 50 B&M SA could be used in a Winchester 70 WSM action.

16" to 18" barrel

You could then use CEB tipped in the magazine.

A option to the Winchester 70 WSSM guns that are getting harder to get.

Daryl Lenkic put a 458 B&M SA in a Remington SAUM and it worked perfect. I was of course against it, being a "R" and all, but I relented in the end.

Speaking of doing an SA in a WSM, Using the BBW#13s with tips! That is a pretty spiffy Idea! I believe it would work too. But, I can find out easy enough. I will check that out and let you know.

Michael

I have a RRA .458 SOCOM upper that I've been working with at the 50yd line. My best group to date has been with Barnes 300gr TSX FN seated to 2.195. With my gear (mostly milsurp magazines), that's enough room to clear the magazine all the way down and they chamber fine.

Running them with WWLP over 35gr of IMR 4227, I get one ragged hole at 50yd. I don't have electronic pressure testing equipment but I get no indicators of excess pressure on the brass. I have not shot them over a chrony yet but some load data suggests slightly over 1800fps at 35.1gr/IMR4227.

I've been working with bullet weights 300-350gr, both jacketed and hard cast. I'm getting much better groups on the lower end of bullet weight and, quickly looking at my data, my better groups are the ones with the longer C.O.L. pretty much across the board.

I have ground a slight bevel on the inside edge of the front of my dedicated SOCOM mags and that helps with feeding the shorter C.O.L. loads that tend to get hung up in my gear. I love working with the SOCOM!

Anyone have the bullet length for the 300gr ESP Raptor? I'm curious how it compares to the Barnes blue tip and the regular TSX.

quote:

Anyone have the bullet length for the 300gr ESP Raptor? I'm curious how it compares to the Barnes blue tip and the regular TSX.

BigFoot!

300 ESP Raptor 1.098 inches. Forget about the #13 NonCon HPs of any sort in this cartridge. I don't believe you can churn enough velocity to maintain LVSP--Low Velocity Shear Points. Which is around 1600 fps low end. Now if you needed a good Solid--that 325 BBW#13 just might be the ticket. Sent NE450#2 some of those as samples, so he can tell us when he gets them if they might work, feed and chamber, in the guns. If they do, then I think I will send NE450 a box of them to test with, might be real interesting to see what happens and what sort of velocity he can get with it.

Michael

Thanks Michael. I'll be adding these to my next bullet order!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Just looking at the pictures, a 458 B&M SA or 50 B&M SA could be used in a Winchester 70 WSM action.

16" to 18" barrel

You could then use CEB tipped in the magazine.

A option to the Winchester 70 WSSM guns that are getting harder to get.

Daryl Lenkic put a 458 B&M SA in a Remington SAUM and it worked perfect. I was of course against it, being a "R" and all, but I relented in the end.

Speaking of doing an SA in a WSM, Using the BBW#13s with tips! That is a pretty spiffy Idea! I believe it would work too. But, I can find out easy enough. I will check that out and let you know.

Michael

LOL... Another 'R' option should you be so inclined is the M77 Ruger SA rifle; they were factory chambered in the RSAUM and WSM cartridges before Ruger/Hornady released the Ruger Compact Magnum (RCM) cartridges.

Michael

I got the bullets today.
Thanks a bunch.
I will get to work on seating depth, and functioning tests this weekend.

With just a preliminary look I do not think I can seat out the Barnes 300gr TTSX Blue Tip to gain any extra case capacity. I did not realize just how LONG that bullet actually is.

Also for a deep penetrating solid bullet I relly like the looks of the 325 BBW #13 SS.

It looks like it can be seated so as to take up about the same, maybe just a little more than the 300gr Hornady and RP HP bullets and still fit in the magazine.
If it will feed it will be a good choice where MAX penetration is needed or wanted.

NE450#2

Excellent.

quote:

With just a preliminary look I do not think I can seat out the Barnes 300gr TTSX Blue Tip to gain any extra case capacity. I did not realize just how LONG that bullet actually is.

Exactly a good reason to send some samples so you can see what will, and what won't!

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Also for a deep penetrating solid bullet I relly like the looks of the 325 BBW #13 SS.

I know this sounds incredible. But this 325 BBW#13 Solid, runs 2300 fps in the 458 B&M Super Short. Test work penetrates dead straight to 50-52 inches as I recall. Last week CrossL did a test with his in Zimbabwe, frontal elephant that he already downed with the 416 B&M. The 325 BBW#13 Solid, according to CrossL, frontal brain shot, exited back of the skull, and traveled a total distance of 6 feet. So I think it is a pretty good bullet and even at lower velocity it will accomplish everything you want to do, and then some. Feeding? I think there is a good chance it will, if the Rem 300s do, it should. I sent TWO DIFFERENT 325 #13s. One for lever gun, short nose projection in front of the top band. One for the Super Shorts, and normal 458s, longer nose projection .600 above the top band. If you get the one with the longer nose projection to feed, that one penetrates deeper, and will give you more case capacity than the LG, lever gun, bullet.

Enjoy. If the 325s look like they are going to feed I have plenty I can send for you to work up a load. No worries.

Michael