michael458

I agree. I do think that the 300gr NFSP would make a great 300gr bullet for upper end 45/70 velocities.

So far, baised on your expansion tests, and the accuracy of these bullets in my particular SOCOM, and the fact that all the following bullets hit in the same place at 100 yards I think the following...

No doubt for a Penetrator bullet, the Cutting Edge 325gr BBW#13 is the way to go.
It is the perfect shape for the 458 Socom case and feeds perfect as well.
I think I can get the velocity up to @1750 baised on the velocity of the 325 NF CPES.
However the BBW#13 and the NF hit in the exact same place, so if an increase of velocity changes the Zero of the #13, I will stay with the original load at 1642fps.

The NF325 CPES, is also very accurate, the 2 shots I fired touched at 100 yards, and this is with a red dot sight, no magnification.
At a velocity of 1750, I might get some expansion out to 50 yards or so, along with deep penetration.

The 400gr Speer might be a great shoice for deer and pigs as it seems to give the most expansion, and still penetrates well.

The Hornady 325 FTX might just be the best allround bullet. It shoots accurate, has high velocity and because of its Plastic tip, it should not have any pluged up Hollow Point issues if you shoot a big pig with caked on mud.

Plus because of its pointed shape it feeds great.

The 300 gr RP and the 300gr Hornady both shoot accurately. With the same powder charge the Hornady has @ 150fps more velocity. The Hornady is a little more accurate as well. I might try to tweek the 300gr Remington load a little as these 2 bullets will probably be my bulk shooting and normal deer and pig load depending on the reults I get this season. Also they are the cheapest, which is not a factor for hunting bullets, but can figure in for plinking and practice.

The 350gr Hornady RN is very accurate as well, and I have a lot of them. I think it would be an ok penetrator for deer and pigs, not as good as the BBW#13, but it would work in a pinch.
It also feeds real well.

Hopefully by the ene of this deer season I will have some actual on game results.

The 300gr Barnes TTSX, is highly favoried by users of the 458 SOCOM. This bullet was designed specifically for the Socom from the gound up. It has a sharp plastic tip to give it as high a BC as possible, and to make it feed 100% in the AR tupe rifles. It also has a boat tail base that allows it to be started and seated in the Socom case, with out any chances of buckling the shoulder. It has a huge HP under the plastic tip and as michael's tests show it expands down to a very low velocity.
It does not have as deep as penetration as most of the other bullets, in his tests, but so far I have not read of any complaints from other Socom users.

I will try to fine some of these bullets before the season is over and shoot a deer and some pigs with them if possible.

I will try to tweek the load for this bullet a little as it hits a few inches [about 3.5"], to the left from the other composite group all the other bullets listed above make. It did make a good group however.


I would also like to thank michael458 for his work shooting these bullets at the reduced impact velocities of the 458 SOCOM.

And for sending me the different bullets to shoot in the Socom.

The more I shoot this "litle gun" the more I like it.

NE450#2

I think the test on the 325 #13 Solid was around 1650 or so, would have to look back to be sure, but even at that penetration was incredible, and I doubt you will recover any from pigs or deer.

You have so many choices, because of POI. Almost everything you are shooting is close to the same POI. Wonderful thing about big bore rifles, if that velocity is close to the same, POI is close to the same, almost regardless. Up that velocity or lower it substantially, then things move more. None of the bullets you have that are the same or close POI are bad choices at those velocities. And I am sure will do the job.

I have not done terminals on the 300 Hornadys in some years, back when I did, I liked the remington 300 better. I just ordered and received a couple of weeks ago another box of 500 of the 300 Remingtons. Very accurate, even with light loads in my 458 Super Short.

I appreciate the "thanks" but not needed. Glad to help out, and its fun too! LOL.......

Keep us posted on some of this pig and deer shooting, let us know how it goes!

Michael

The more I look at the Hornady 325 FTX, the more I like it. It does feed the slickest of all the bullets, well it and the Barnes TTSX.

I was able to find some of the FTX bullets locally, so I loaded some of them up, so I would have plenty to shot some game with.

I think these are the newer version as they only have one cannalure.

Everything considered, this just may be the best allround hunting bullet for the 458 SOCOM.

It and the 325gr BBW#13 might be the perfect pair.

Throw in a few of the 300gr Barnes TTSX, for those longer range shots, where velocity will be low, but this bullet still expands, and you might have the perfect trio.

Just back from 23 days at the deer lease.
I gave the 458 SOCOM a pretty good workout.
I killed a turkey, a coyote, a bobcat, and two doe deer. [I will give bullet and wound details later in the post.]
I used the early version of the EO TEC sight with the standard Circle Dot reticle for all shots.

First, I must say that this Wilson 458 SOCOM is a very good, and handy hunting rifle.
It has already become one of my favorite rifles.

As, I have stated previously, baised on michael 458's bullet tests, and my shooting tests, I thought that the Hornady 325 FTX bullet might just be the best allround hunting bullet for the 458 SOCOM, so I started out using it first.
I loaded it over 31 gr of H-110, velocity is 1714.3 fps average for 3 shots.

First game taken was a turkey at 30 yards. I shot it at the neck body junction. Turkey was DRT no meat loss.

Second, was a coyote shot at 41 yards walking.
He was also DRT, the shot very slightly quartering away. There were signs of bullet expansion, but the hide was not "blown up" like it would have been if hit with a high velocity cartridge at that distance.

Third a doe deer. I had only shot the rifle at 100 yards, but had caculated the drop at 150 yards as @5 to 6 inches. This doe was at 141 yards, lazered. When I fired the shot the deer reacted to the hit, jumping up and wind milling her front legs, which usually indicates a heart shot. I thought I heard the bullet hit, and I saw it kick up dirt indicating a pass through.

The deer reversed direction and ran into the thick stuff. She ran about 60 yards or so, Rusty the Wonder dog found her easially. She did leave a good blood trail.

She was quartering away, and the bullet hit her about mid body, in front of the diaphram, breaking two ribs, No 5 and 6 counting from the back of the rib cage, massive damage to the liver, BIG hole in upper heart, with 6 or so other puncture holes in heart, caused by bullet fragmentation,[lead fragments found in heart], right lung not damaged, left lung badly dammaged. A rib was knicked on the way out and there was @ a one inch exit hole in the hide.

I was impressed with the internal damage from the SOCOM at that distance.

These 3 animals were taken with the Hornady 325 FTX bullet.

I shot the bobcat at about 18 to 20 yards, as he started to run, quartering away. I was using the 300gr Remington HP over 31.5gr of H-110, velocity is 1622fps.
It was after dark and I was using the Streamlight TLR-2
He went right down, and flopped a time or two. As I walked toward him, I saw my empty fired case, and bent down to pick it up. When I looked back at the cat, he was gone .

I found him a few minutes later in the thick brush 4 or 5 feet from where he had fallen.

I did place a finisher in him from my S&W 2" Mod 34, 22 LR. [Fear not I was wearing my 1911 as well.]
I had hit him in front of the left hip and the bullet exited in back or the right shoulder.
There were signs of expansion, a pretty good exit hole, but the hide was again, not blown up.

Next was another doe deer. I was using the Hornady 300gr HP over 31.5gr of H-110, velocity, 1771 fps. [Notice the difference in velocity between the Remington 300gr bullet and the Hornady 300gr bullet. Velocity tests were repeated on two different days, with the same results.]

This deer was at 132 yards, lazered, but as I raised the rifle to shoot she started to walk.

At the shot, I definately heard the bullet hit the deer, and saw the bullet kick up dirt.
The deer jumped to the shot, but did not wind mill her front legs. She turned a 180 and ran into the thick brush, down a game trail just like the other doe, going about the same distance. Again Rusty the Wonder Dog went right to her. There was a good blood trail.

I hit this deer a few inches farther back, just barely behind the diaphram, she was slightly more than quartering away, cutting a 2.5" by 3" hole in the center of the liver, and cut a 2" by 2.5" hole in the left lung, and broke a rib on the way out.

Again I was impressed with the internal damage from the SOCOM at that distance.

I did not get to shoot a pig, but there have been a lot of pigs seen on game cameras way after dark, so when I go back I will concentrate on pigs, and a buck deer.

I did also kill a turkey with a 1911 in 45 ACP, and a squirrel, and a 5'4" rattlesnake with my S&W 2" Mod 34 Kit Gun. I killed the rattler in camp after dark around 7:15 PM With 2 shots of CCI Shotshells. Squirrel and snake are in the freezer, waiting for the skillet.

Random thoughts...

The 2 shots on the doe at those distances are pushing the envelope with my eyes and the red dot sight. I have mounted a 2.5x Kahles scope on the 458 SOCOM, and will give it a try when I return to the lease. I have had this scope for 30 years or so, and it is one of the most clear scopes I have ever looked through.
I can see bullet holes with this scope at 100 yards that I cannot see with some name brand 8 to 10X scopes.
The SOCOM needs a good scope for low light and night use, with an illuminated reticle and good light gathering, so this scope will help me decide just how much magnification I need/want on what is basically a 200 yard Max rifle.
AND I want to keep the total package as light and handy as posible.

I would have thought that the 325 Hornady FTX bullet would be too stout for the SOCOM, but thanks to michael458's tests, it looked very promising.

Baised on shooting the 2 doe at nearly the same range with the 325FTX and the Hornady 300gr HP, and the Coyote with the 325FTX, and the Bobcat with the 300gr RP at closer ranges, I feeel that the Hornady 325 FTX bullet is going to be the best allround choice for the 458 SOCOM.
Its pointed shape ensures 100+% feeding reliability.

I should be able to get even tighter groups with the Kahles 2.5X scope vs the red dot so I will determine if the 300gr Hornady or the 300gr RP will be my plinking bullet or if I will just use the 325FTX bullet for everything short of a serious penetrator...

I plan on shooting a couple of 3 pigs, and another deer or two before the end of the year.

I hope to shoot a pig with the 325 Hornady FTX and either the Hornady or the RP 300gr HP and one with the BBW#13 Cutting Edge 325gr bullet.

If I shoot another doe I will try and use the 300gr RP bullet to establish a base to compare it to the 325FTX and the 300gr Hornady.

I still think I need to try the Barnes 300gr TTSX SOCOM bullet, but I do not think I can find any around here, before I go back to the lease.

Baised on the performance of the 325 Hornady FTX at 41 yards on the coyote, and on the deer at 141 yards, I really do not think I "need" to look at any other bullet, but I probably should do so just for "Science" reasons.
Likewise I will try to shoot some pigs in the future with the Hornady 350gr RN and the 400gr Speer.

Again, I give a big thanks to michael458, for the bullet tests he has done at 458 SOCOM impact velocities.

His tests indicated that the Hornady 325 FTX bullet would be worth a "look" in the SOCOM.

Baised on my actual shooting/field tests, it has the accuracy, reliability, velocity, and terminal performance, to be the perfect General Purpose bullet for the 458 SOCOM.

After I shoot a couple of big pigs with it, we will know for sure.

450NE#2

From what you have told us, you had a very successful run with the Socom and the 325 Hornady, 300 Rem and Hornady. Congrats, very good news on all fronts. I swear, it's hard to beat .458 when you choose the right bullets, for the job at hand. However, I will say, I will PASS on the rattler in the freezer deal!!!!! Not for me, thank you! Excellent shooting with the red dot at some of those distances!

Actually I was amazed and pleased at some of the results we got from the test work, at those low velocities. Now to see some of it working in the field is very good. I concur, for all practical purposes, especially with POI of the various bullets, the 325 Hornady, very good choice, and when things need deep penetration, or as backup, the 325 #13 Solid. Good Combo.


Thanks for the field reports, very good info, and especially for those who would also like to download some of the larger capacity cartridges too. Just FYI--I came across a WSSM upper a few weeks ago. Of course a WSSM upper would work perfect with my 458 B&M Super Short, magazines look like they will work as well. I think there is a semi version of this going to be in the works shortly after the first of the year! Might be big fun.

Michael

back from another extended trip to the deer lease.

I killed 4 pigs and 2 coyotes with the 458 SOCOM.

All the pigs were harvested, and are in the freezer.

In fact he wife and I had pig shoulder roast from a boar about 225lbs that I shot on this trip for dinner tonight.

I shot 2 pigs with the 325 Hornady FTX, one with the Hornady 300gr HP and one with the Remington 300gr HP and the 2 coyotes with the 300gr RP bullet.

What follows is my thoughts on these bullets, but remember, there has not been enough game taken to make a definate conclusion on performance, my comments are baised on just a few animals with each bullet.

My favorite hunting bullet so far is the Hornady 325 FTX. Even on the deer shot at 141 yards it showed excellent expension and internal damage. What looks like is happening is that the plastic tip starts expansion and the front of the bullet sheds the jacket and some lead, and then expands causing a lot of internal damage. This bullet with its plastic nose feeds extremely well.

I have recovered several of the red tips in the animals.

The 300gr Hornady HP has performed very well. I took a medium sized pig at about 35 yards or so and it onluyran a short distance.

The heart was totally flayed open, with a lot of small to medium fragmentation wounds in the heart.

This bullet has less lead exposed at the nose and its lead is a lot harder than the 300gr Remington bullet.

I think this adds to fragmentation and killing piwer...

The 300gr Remington HP seems to expand quicker that the other two but fragment less. Also it has more exposed lead and is more deformed than the Hornady bulllet.

It does not cause as much internal damage.

However, all bullets seem to kill about the same, so further testing is in order.

I can say that the 458 SOCOM is one great hunting rifle...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
However, all bullets seem to kill about the same, so further testing is in order.

I can say that the 458 SOCOM is one great hunting rifle...

NE450#2

I think that sums it up rather well...............

Well Done.
Michael

Michael

Did you remember why you liked the RP 300gr bullet better tht the 300gr Hornady???

Do you have any picturers of the tested 300gr Hornady bullets?

NE450

Yes, I do remember why I liked the Rem over the HOrnady. But, those old tests are probably not valid
today. This test was 10 + years ago--direct comparison between the 300 Rem and the 300 Hornady. So far back that I don't have recorded data on it. I remember because I was testing to see which 300 gr bullet I wanted to get and use in 45/70 and light loads in 458 Win. I expected the HOrnady to perform better, but was surprised that the Remington actually held together better than the HOrnady, and the Remingtons being available in bulk, and much cheaper to boot!

This was done so long ago, no recorded data, no photos, nothing but my poor ass memory. In these very tests, we found that bullets can very easy change over a period of time, example the 350 Hornady, which tested in this same time frame would not expand below 1600 fps. Today, we found extremely good results at 1500 fps impacts, and I am sure it would expand and do well at much less.
So I would not be surprised in a test today if the 300 Hornady might fair much better. I am sure I do not have any new 300 Hornady, if I have any, they come from that time period of many years ago.

Michael

Managed to shoot a couple of more pigs.

One was about a 185 pound sow, running at around 40 yards. The shots were fired with the 458 SOCOM and a 300gr Hornady HP, Muzzle velocity is 1771.4 fps.

The first bullet struck behind the shoulder and exited the hog. The second struck the shoulder and could be felt through the skin on the off side.

I cut the bullet out and it had mushroomed perfectly, weighing 247.8 grains, expanded to .750x.650.

There is a large chunk, about half of the mushroom top, that was "cleaved" off of the bullet.

I have seen this before on recovered 44 Mag bullets. This occures when after a bullet mushrooms it hits a bone just right, and the bone cleaves off a piece of the muchroom. Many times I have also recovered the cut off piece of the mushroom right nect to the bullet, but I did not look for it this time.

The bullet expanded down to the first cannalure and held together very well, except for the cleaved off portion of course. There is no evidence of core/jacket slippage.

I was actually able to see the bullet impact on the hog on both of these shots.

NE450#2

Excellent.......

Hit a bone sounds like to me as well, cleaving part of the mushroom. Have seen that a time or two myself.

This is just the regular HP, not the flex tip.....

The Flex is a great bullet, I just got 250 in today in .500 caliber for plinking around in the 50 Super Short. Funny, the .458 Flex is 325, .500 Flex is 300.

Good Show.....
Michael

Michael

Yes it was the Hornady 300gr HP, not the 325FTX.

I have made the Hornady 325 FTX [the Lever Evolution bullet] my main General Purpose hunting bullet in the 458 SOCOM. However I was out of them at the end of deer season and reloaded all my SOCOMm brass with the Hornady 300gr HP's I still had.

I have since acquired 500 of the 325FTX, and as I get more brass, I am going to load up the FTX's.

Tony

Yes, I like the Flex, wish they did a 300 in .458 as well... Would be perfect for general purpose use in my 458 Super Short. Working on the Super Short by the way now on that AR action! Should be interesting. As it is I run the 325 Flex at 2270 or so... Can get a lot more from the 300s, like the North Fork at 2500.... And the new 250#13 at 2700...

M

Tony....
Pertaining to 458 Socom... Check Terminal Thread.....

Michael

Thanks that bullet looks very interesting.

Just a couple of weeks ago when turkeyhunting I shot a 250 to 260 lb Boar, at 156 yards.

I hit him just right about 3 inches behind the shoulder [do not want to mess up the shoulder roasts ] with a 300gr Hornady HP.

At the shot the hog ran about 50 yards or so.
He was dead when Rusty the Wonder Dog and I got to him.
The bullet was recovered in the gristle plate on the opposite, perfectly expanded.

I was suprised it expanded that well at that distance.
I could not tell much difference in it and the same bullets I have recovered from pigs shot around 50 yards or so.

This bullet expanded to.685 at its widest point, and weighed280.1 grains, and a half circular piece of lead had seperated from the bullet weing 14.cgrains, and was also in the gristle plate with the muchroomed bullet.

Ya gotta love .458 caliber, all the excellent bullets available, now from 250 grs to 600 grs..... That is a huge spread, covers every conceivable .458 cartridge out there. I love .458 anything....

Michael