Michael

Just looking at the BBW13's I agree the one for the 458 SOCOM is the SS version, the one with all the driving bands at the rear. All of these will be inside the case neck, giving the neck the max amount of the bullet to grip.

On the LG at the same seating depth there is not much of bullet diameter for the SOCOM case to "grip".

Strangely enough, the BBW#13 SS looks like it was designed specifically for the SOCOM.
Just looking at it I think it will feed, and its reduced diameter nose portion, at .446 should chamber in any SOCOM barrel seated out to max mag length. And it still had a large enough meplat to cause some good damage s it penetrates.

Even though it is longer than the Speer 400gr bullet, seated out it takes up just a tiny amount more than the 300gr HP bullets.

NE450#2

Very Excellent. I thought that might just be the ticket, the SS, but was not sure. Load up a dummy or two, see if its gonna work, and when I get back in this weekend I will box up some and send to you to try some loads with. Whatever you are using with any 325, you can use the same, and maybe even a tad more, there is less pressures with these bullets too.

Meplat size is 67% of caliber. Yes, it will displace tissue nicely. No worries about dead straight penetration, you will get that as well. Pretty good bone cruncher too. Once you find the velocity you can work at with it, I will down load a 458 Super Short, and we will put it to the test at that velocity and find out what it will do. Sounds like good fun to me!

Michael

Sounds great. I have a Pact crono, so I will be able to give you the velocities I am getting.

All serious handgun hunters know how well heavy cast bullets penetrate. [I would not shoot cast bullets in MY AR...], even at 44 Mag and 45 Colt velocities.

So in the 458 SOCOM a bullet like the BBW#13 SS should do great as well, especially that it will most likely not deform, even on heavy bone at SOCOM velocities, and it will certainly not fragment.

I wull be curious to see how its penetration, distance and straightness, compares to say a 350gr Hornady RN that will probably not expand at SOCOM velocities, but will it penetrate as deep and as straight as the BBW?

Also if the BBW#13 SS feeds and shoots good, I could see the need for a North Fork 325 CPE, with the same external shape with a large HP designed to expand at SOCOM velocities.
Expands less than the Barnes for deeper penetration.

The Barnes TTSX expands so well at low velocities it might be the ultimate 125 to 150 and even 200yard expanding bullet for the SOCOM.
Sadly its lower obtainable velocity, due to its deep seating, will hurt trajectory at distances past 100 yards... But that is a Human Problem that can be learned and practiced for.

quote:

I wull be curious to see how its penetration, distance and straightness, compares to say a 350gr Hornady RN that will probably not expand at SOCOM velocities, but will it penetrate as deep and as straight as the BBW?

Well by damned, we can find out exactly that! Sounds like fun to me! Get some dummys tried, see if they are going to feed, then I will get some on the way to you Monday, load'em up get a good load, get me a velocity goal, and we will find out just exactly what you want to! I have plenty of both of those bullets on hand.

quote:

Also if the BBW#13 SS feeds and shoots good, I could see the need for a North Fork 325 CPE, with the same external shape with a large HP designed to expand at SOCOM velocities.
Expands less than the Barnes for deeper penetration.

We can also find out if the 325 North Fork does any expanding at whatever the working velocity is with the others, because what you do with the #13 will be close to what you can do with the North Fork CPES as well.

Michael

Well I have had a chance to do some expermenting, with the bullets Michael sent me.

Also besides testing them for feeding through the magazine when being hand cycled, I also loaded them up and will see if they feed when actually being fired.

I will list the bullets he sent me and make comments later in this thread.

But first let me go through the bullets I have actually fired in this rifle so far, and some info I have read abut them in the 458 SOCOM.
I have not cronoed any loads in my rifle so these velocities are estimates on what others have reported.

The 300gr Hornady HP and the 300gr Remington HP.
These bullets have a good reputation on deer and pigs, giving good expansion and penetration.

I estimate my muzzle velocity to be @1700fps.
100 yard velocity @1380fps

The Hornady 350gr RN. Some have killed deer and pig with bullet, but testing has shown no expansion at SOCOM velocities.
My muzzle velocith estimate @1600fps.
50 yard velocity @1430fps
100 yard velocity @1300fps.
I have used this bullet in the 45/70 at @1900fps and in my 450 No2 at 2330fps. It killed well at those velocities.

Its use in the SOCOM may be as a penetrator, if it tracks straight.

The 350gr Hornady FN is reported to expand a lot better at SOCOM velocities.
They seem to shoot a little higher in my rifle, but further testing need to be done as I have only fired 3 of them.

The 400gr Speer FN.
Estimated velocity @1600fps.
50 yard velocity @1450fps
100 yard velocity @1300FPS.

The only factory load I have fired is the SBR 350gr SP. Velocity listed at 1650fps.

The good thing is, ALL of these loads shoot into a composite group at 100 yards, the size of the palm of my hand, using an EoTech red dot sight.

There have been no malfunctions.
I have used 4 different kind of magazines.
All unmodified.
Standard Military 30 rounders.
Armalite curfed 20 rounders.
Canadan "plastic" 30 rounders.
Original Colt 20 rounders.
The original Colt 20 rounders do not have the slightly lowered front of the magazine like the others do. There could be a problem with very blunt bullets striking the front of the mag and not feeding out. Some people have cut or ground a rounded out area to aid feeding with these older magazines.

20 round magazines hold seven 458 SOCOM rounds.
The 30 round magazines hold ten 458 SOCOM rounds.

Now to the bullets Michael sent me.

The Barnes 300gr TTSX with the blue tip.

This bullet is all the rage with many SOCOM shooters. Performance on deer and pigs is reported to be excellent. This bullet expands even at low velocity. Accuracy is also reported to be very good.

Barnes loading data shows 29gr of 296 as a MAX load. Velocity 1719fps.
50 yard velocity @1550fps, 100 yards @1420fps.
I loaded them with 29gr of H110.
This bullet feeds good.

325 BBW #13 SS.
This bullet is perfectly designed for the 458 SOCOM. The driving bands areall at the base of the bullet. They are just about exactly as long as the neck of the SOCOM case. The nose section of the bullet is .446 diameter, which lets the bullet chamber with out touching the rifling in front of the chamber. OAL is 2.198.
They feed, [hand cycled], great.
I used loading data from Barnes for their 330gr banded solid. They showed a MAX of 31.5gr of WW296.
I loaded the 3 he send me over 31gr of H110, baised on the fact that this bullet does not project below the case neck.
Velocity @1675. At 50 yards @1500fps , at 100 @1325.

This just may be the perfect penetrator bullet for the SOCOM.

I did not load the same bullet with the 325 BBW #13 LG, as the driviing bands are in the wrong place for the SOCOM, you would have to seat the bullet too deep for it to chamber..

325 North Fork CPES [Cup Point Expanding Solid]

I had high hopes for this bullet.
I do not know if I was the first, but a few years ago at the SCI shot I suggested to North Fork that they make a Cup Point Expanding bullet for the people with double rifles and 45/70's that could be used in the Condor Zone, ie. lead free zone, in California.
This would give double rifle shooters a safe monometal expanding bullet.

Because the driving bands go so far foward toward the nose I had to seat this bullet deeper than I wanted to to get it to chamber.
I loaded 2 of them over 31gr of H110.
I estimate their velocity around 1700fps.
At 50 yards @1525fps, at 100 yards @1370fps.

Ballistic data baised on theh Barnes Banded Solid ballistics.

Also the base of the bullet is so sharp, as are the driving bands I ruined 2 cases seating one of the bullets. They snagged the inside of the case neck and the shoulder bent.
I was loading new cases, and did not put them through the resizing die first. I did chamfer them inside and outside.

These bullets fed fine when hand cycled.

For strictly 458 SOCOM use a North Fork CPES in the exact shape of the BBE #13 SS, with maybe a deeper/larger HP opening so it will open up at SOCOM impact velocities would be just about perfect, with a weight from 300 to 325grains.

I have my SOCOM dies set up to work in my Bonanza CO-AX press. I also have the dies set up to put on a mild crimp.
The nose size and OAL of the BBW #13 SS and the North Fork CPES was so long the bullet seating stem would not work for these bullets, unless I moved the body of the die farther up in the coax press. I did not want to do that because it is set perfect for the bullets I already have zeros for.

So I just put the seating die in my RCBS 50 cal press and I was able to adjust the seating die stem down far enough to seat the bullets. Also it raised up the die enough so these loads were not crimped, as you cannot crimp into the driving bands on a monometal bullet, and I was not seating them to any particular crimping groove on the bullet.

325 Hornady FTX.
This bullet has a long bearing serface and a sharp but stubby nosesection

So I seated it to the middle of the foward cannelure, and applied my normal light crimp.
I loaded it over 31gr of H110.

Internet loads show powder charges much higher, but I think they might be over pressure.
I estimate velocity to be @1600fps.

This bullet feeds good.

350 Speer.
This bullet has the perfect shape for the 458 SOCOM. It has a short bearing surface, just about the same length as the case neck.
The nose is long and tapered, with a decent sized meplat.

OAL of this bullet is 2.175 seated to the cannelure, which places the base of the bullet at the base of the case neck. It takes up about the same amount of internal case space as the 300gr Hornady and RP HP bullets, which is less, than any of these other bullets.
The long tapered nose does not contact the rifling. This bullet feeds good.

This bullet looks a lot like the 350gr bullet loaded in the SBR factory ammo. Their shapes are similar. SBR told me they make that bullet themselves.

This bullet will most likely not expand at SOCOM velocities. It might work as a penetrator, but I think it might tend to overturn, ie "tumble" because of its long tapered nose.

If I was designing a 350gr bullet that would expand at SOCOM velocities, it would look like this one.

What I am personally looking for in bullets for the 458 SOCOM.

First a good accurate expanding bullet, not too expensive, for a General Purpose load. Suitable for normal hunting of deer and pigs, coyotes,etc, and for plinking.
I think the 300gr Hornady HP and/or the 300gr RP HP will fill this role.

Second a tougher expanding bullet, suitable for walking up bigger pigs, and for game like black bear over bait, or elk in thick timber.
The Barnes TTSX, a redesigned North Fork CPES. or maybe even the 325FTX bullet.

Third a bullet designed for maximum penetration, that cannot come apart on big bones, and has a large enough meplat to still cut a good wound channel. I do not want to shoot lead bullets in an AR SOCOM

There is a possibility that the 350gr Hornady RN can serve in this role if it gives deep enough straight line penetration.
Possibly the Speer 350gr, but I do not think it will give totally straight line penetration.

The perfect bullet for this may be the BBW#13 SS.

One of the main advangates of this bullet is the fact that it is a monometal bullet, so it cannot come apart on big bones.

Also if you happen to hit a large branch it cannot fragement or start to open up before it hits the animal.

quote:

Originally posted by North Fork:
Hey All,

We do make a 300gr North Fork Flat Nose Bonded bullet in .458. It is on the website. Designed like the 350gr. Used a lot overseas in the .458 Blaser. Excellent for the .458 SOCCOM. From a Marlin Guide Gun, it reaches 2200fps easy. Really wicked when it hits, sounds like a 2X4 hitting a brick wall.

Regards,
John
North Fork Technologies
www.northforkbulets.com

John
What is the length of the 300gr Bonded bullet?
What is the length of the Driving bands?
Is the nose shape the same as the 350's that Mike Brady made? I have some of them on hand but I think the 300gr would be a better weight for that bullet in the SOCOM.

NE450#2

I will try this week to do some low velocity test work for you with the 325 #13 Solid, 325 NF CPES, 350 RN Hornady, and the 350 Speer. I think we have low velocity work on most of the rest.

I have some company coming in tomorrow afternoon, so Tuesday and Wed is pretty much out, with the exception of Tuesday morning maybe? Depends on the work load I get done today I suppose.

If all else fails then it will be the end of the week and weekend.

In the meantime getting a little package of 325#13s off to you today.

Michael

quote:

In the meantime getting a little package of 325#13s off to you today.

I lied! Was not able to get the package out today! Sorry! Tomorrow.

Michael

Thanks Michael sounds good.

I think those 325gr BBW#13SS will be just the thing for a great penetrator bullet in the Socom.

Michael

Here are some questions I have on the terminal performance of the HP NonComs.

First how do they perform in your test media?

And how have they performed on actual animals?

ie, internal damage done and how good is the penetratikon of the lighter rear piece of the bullet after the petals have broken off?

My thoughts are this.
The Barnes TTSX 300gr seems to give excellent expansion, even at lower 458 SOCOM impact velocities. It expands so much it might not give enough penetration on raking shots, especially up close.

The 325gr BBW#13SS, will give maximum penetration from any angle. [The question is at 358 SOCOM velocities does it have enough "steam" behind it to give it all the penetration it needs?].

But what about a Cutting Edge HP bullet, the exact shape of the 325BBW#13SS [assuming it does feed and shoot accurately in the SOCOM], with a design that assures that it will expand and shear off the petals at SOCOM impact velocities out to 125 yards or so.

In a broadside shot, good expansion type internal damage into the vitals, with complete penetration.

In raking shots, the petals break off allowing the base of the bullet to continue to penetrate very deep, into the vitals.

NE450#2

The BBW#13 NonCons are stone dead killers. They perform in test medium exactly as they do in animal tissue, and induce the most trauma that I have ever seen. Animal reactions are extreme as well. Penetration of the remaining bullet is far deeper and much more than any conventional, even much heavier conventionals within caliber. There is nothing more deadly than a NonCon. Nothing I have ever seen, and I have seen a few.

I concur, the penetration may be limited with the Barnes TTSX on raking shots.

I concur the BBW#13 325 Solid will penetrate deep--I think even at low velocity, we are going to find out this week. It won't penetrate as deep with low velocity as it does with higher velocities, but it will be what you are looking for, I am pretty sure.

But..........Here is the problem with the 295 BBW#13 NonCon--Or ANY NONCON at ultra low velocity--They WILL NOT SHEAR below 1600 fps impacts. Even if you could start them at 1800 fps, they would be below the threshold at 50 yards, and I don't believe from what I am hearing you would be able to even start out at that. Nix the NonCon for this duty, it needs more velocity. If you had the velocity to work with, different story, but you don't. One thing about this, when the NonCon does not shear, it becomes a solid and does penetrate. But, you do not get the trauma inflicted when they do not shear, and they won't shear below LVSP.

I am still waiting on the North Fork 300s. It is my thoughts that if you could pair the 300 North Fork Premium, and the 325 BBW#13 SOlid, close POI, then you might have the right combo. Both need to be tested at these low velocities, which we will do.

I will have time to get some boxes ready this morning for testing. Actual testing--Possibly.

Michael

I did not have time to test anything, but I did get some medium prepared. I also tested some loads for velocity in my 458 B&M Super Short for the low velocity work. Fun. Pop gun loads.

Started out using 30 gr 2400 for everything. 325 BBW#13 Solid 1603 fps, 325 North Fork CPES, 1680 fps--this was a little high, so I dropped this load to 28/2400 for the test. 350 Hornady- FN, I have shot up all my RN Hornadys 30/2400 ?? For some reason did not get a reading. The 350 Speer 30/2400 1520 fps. Hornady should be the same. I will test at 22 yds, by then the FN bullet will have shed some velocity, and the Speer might hold up a bit better, we will see.

When??? Not sure when I can get a chance to test, at the very latest will be this weekend.

Michael

Sounds good.

I thought getting the Non Con to shed its petals might not be doable. And even if the bullet could be tweeked to do so at the lowish velocities of the 458 SOCOM they would probably not radiate out as far and penetrate as deep.

Probably better for expanding bullet use, is to get a jacketed lead bullet to give a good mushroom.

Michael

Are you out of the 350 Hornady RN?

Do you want me to send you some?

I would really like to have data on that bullet, it shoots good in my SOCOM.

NE450#2

Yep, totally out, have no Round Nose 350 HOrnadys.. Send a few, 6 or so should do. Velocity and working will be the same as the FN.

Exactly correct in this case the NonCon is just not the bullet for the mission in the 458 Socom--not in it's present form anyway. Yes, it could be done, but I don't think its worth the effort and I don't think at those low velocities it would work any better than a good old fashioned Expanding Conventional!

I think maybe the 300 North Forks might be the ticket, but we will find that out soon..

Michael

I will send you some 350 Hornady RN's.

Actually the SOCOM guys, state that the Hornady 350 FN expands quiet a bit better at low velocity than the RN bullet.

I have some of them should I send you some FN's too?

I will also send you some Speer 400gr FN's. The SOCOM people state they are having problems getting the Remington 405gr bullets, the Speer might be a good alternative.

let me know about the 350 Hornady Flat Noses, I am packing up the others now.

I just sent a message not to worry about the RN, but if you get a chance send 5-6 will be fine. I have plenty of the FN 350 Hornadys. That is a great bullet for the lever guns, as you already know.

Yes, if you want to send some 400 speers fine, I don't have any of those. Have plenty of the 405 Remingtons.

M

They will be in the mail in a day or two.

I am also curious to see how the Speer 400 does compared to the Remington 405.

I seem to remember back in the day when I had a Ruger No1 in 45/70 that I read the Speer was considered a fairly soft bullet, that still held togeter well as standard 45/70 velocities.

I did shoot some deer with it, buyt I always got 100% penetration, and 100% dead deer as well.

Cruious as to how it will do in the SOCOM, as many SOCOM shooters really like the 405 Remington.

Another potential North Fork and CEB combo, soft and solid, for low velocity .458 this time: Might be "workable."
And even the "non-premium" soft bullets might serve admirably at the lower velocities.

I don't suppose that mixing copper and brass fouling will be too detrimental, eh?
One would mainly be shooting one type bullet most often, and the other occasionally,
so as long as you clean the bore a little more often than "never," there should be no problem.

An occasional brass CEB might clean out the copper fouling.
Shooting brass CEB bullets is an approved cleaning method for rifles, at MIB, I hear.
That is how I plan to do it with another North Fork and CEB combo if it is "workable.".

RIP

I agree, I think the right "normal" 458 bullets will do fine for many uses in the SOCOM.

But it never hurts to check out all the possibly suitable bullets.

I still believe it is the Bullet, that does all the work.

All the money, time, and energy, you spend going on a hunt, can depend on one bullet.

quote:

I still believe it is the Bullet, that does all the work.

By Damn! I have heard that before! Just can't quite recall where?



NE450#2, been preaching those same words for YEARS.......On top of YEARS. And you won't believe how much resistance I get from some folks! Amazing!

quote:

All the money, time, and energy, you spend going on a hunt, can depend on one bullet.

How is it possible that simple statement is so hard to understand by some? I will never know?

M

I remember trying to tell clients headed to africa back in the late '90s for their first safari that they needed to pay $3-$5 per round for quality, bonded, premium bullets such as the Swift A-Frame. You can't believe the resistance I got from some, until I reminded them that the cost of proper ammo was a pittance when compared to the overall cost of their safari.

This is all posted on the Terminal Thread, but relevant here in particular. Thought I would copy and paste it here as well.


michael458
one of us

Posted Oct 02, 2012 7:34 AM Hide Post
I got interested in helping NE450#2 take a closer look at his 458 Socom, and some of the bullets he can work with in it to help enhance the firepower of the little cartridge. It's on a separate thread down below here. I will post there as well, however, all Terminals will always go here on the Terminal Thread.

NE450#2 has some limitations with the Socom, like so many things, it's a compromise as well. So velocity is a limiting factor here. He would like a good expanding or trauma inducing bullet, and something to follow up with that will give good penetration like the south end of a north bound pig! I think we have that for him, even at very low velocity. As for the Penetrator, was there ever any doubt?????




This is some serious penetration for a bullet at such low velocity. Remember, animal tissue "Rule of Thumb" add 30% to 35% more penetration for animal tissue. If NE450#2 can get anything close to 1500-1600 fps with this bullet he will have all the penetration he needs for anything he might encounter with the Socom.

Another good penetrator is the 325 North Fork CPES. I think it is right on the edge of its working velocity to expand however. As you can see, one did, and one did not expand so much. Of course the one that did not expand so much penetrated deeper, never a bad thing. The one that did expand some penetrated less, but gave more trauma as well. This bullet is a bit better at higher impact velocities I believe.









Same thing with the 350 Speer, its at the bottom end of expansion here. One sorta did, the other sorta did not. I would rule the 350 Speer out of the running for this application.




Now here is my biggest surprise! When Hornady came out with this bullet probably around 2000 or maybe 2001 as I recall, it was rather evident that they just took the 350 Round Nose that was designed for the 458 Winchester, flattened the nose, and load it in 45/70s. It was great for that, but I tested it way back then and it would not expand or do anything at impact velocities of less than 1600 fps. I had not tested this bullet at all since then. 11-12 years ago! It is now obvious that Hornady has made a BIG change in this bullet to get it to expand like this at low velocity. This also means that some more test work is going to be required to fully understand this bullet now at various different velocities as well. Trauma was massive for a bullet moving this slow, big gaping holes in the test medium 3 inches or more across. Very impressive. This 350 Hornady Flat Nose is an excellent contender for NE450#2 and back up with the 325 BBW#13 Solid--if he can get POI close, then this is a winning combination in my book.









Couple of things to ponder, has Hornady made any changes to the 350 Round Nose version, the one designed for 458 Winchester Velocities? I tested this extensively years ago as well, and it did well up to 2400 fps impacts, and of course nothing below 1600 fps impacts.

And, with the 350 Flat Nose--What is it's new upper end velocity? Low end velocity? Some questions that might need answering as time allows.

Thank God Hornady did not make a DGX out of it, it would not have been worth a damn then! The Interlocks are still their top of the line bullet.

More to come on this in the days or weeks to come.

Michael


The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live outside the box of "Conventional Wisdom"

Again, this is posted on the Terminals, another Copy/Paste, and keeping this work together relative to this thread.



michael458
one of us

Posted Oct 10, 2012 1:44 PM Hide Post
Speaking of the little 458 B&M Super Short. I have been using it to do the Low Velocity Terminals with the various 458 bullets, some done many months ago, and then recently giving NE450#2 a hand with the Socom. In all these various loads I have just been using 27-30 grs of plain old 2400, giving from 1500 to 1650 fps with 400s to 300s, and like a little pop gun, a lot of fun!

NE405#2 sent some 350 Hornady RN and some 400 Speer to get some low velocity tests with. Here is how they came out.

The 350 RN Hornady did exactly what I thought is was going to do with 3 of them, nothing, no expansion at all, the RN lead flattened, making an undersized FN. Penetration was ok, but off course as you would expect. One of the Hornadys did not hold its form, and expanded some. Remember these were designed for 458 Winchester, and in that role I have tested them up to 2700 fps, they are at top end at 2400 fps impacts. Do very well down to 1600 fps.









The 400 Speer at 1517 fps impacts EXPANDED, a lot! One would not want to run this much faster as it's performance would go down hill from here at higher velocity. Of course even at this impact velocity the penetration was limited by the amount of expansion.








While I was at it I tested the 405 Remington as well. All 458 shooters have been shooting this bullet for years and years, I have, shot them by the hundreds. I used to use them to do all the test work in 458 Lott, 458 Winchester, and of late 458 B&M, when working up load data on 400 gr size bullets. Then once I would get close to the velocity I targeted, or upper ends, then I would switch to the more expensive, Swifts or other Premiums. So I have shot literally 1000s of these things. Tested them at many various velocities as well, and came to the conclusion a long time ago that one should actually start these out at 1600 fps or so for decent terminals. More than that muzzle velocity then they are going to come apart at higher impact velocity. I have had failures with these at higher velocity in the field. Keep the velocity low, 1600 fps or less, then this is a decent bullet terminally. They are extremely accurate at any velocity! I never seen a rifle that would not shoot these accurately.








I have to admit, this Low Velocity testing is pretty fun, its relatively easy too. Shooting the little 458 B&M Super Short with these loads is like shooting a 22--just bigger.

Michael

Michael

Back from my trip. Picked up the 325gr BBW#13's at the Post office today. Thanks a bunch.

As soon as I get time, in the next few days I will do some shooting and chronographing.

Also the latest rounds of low velocity testing was pretty interesting.
It definately showed that the Speer 400gr bullet is softer than the remington, which is what I remember from my early days with the 45/70.
Several people have reported good results on deer and pigs with the RP 300gr HP and the 405gr RP bullets, as well as the 300gr Barnes.

Here is a question, how did the damage in the test medium compare between the BBW#13's, and the 350gr Hornady RN bullets, that did not expand?

Once I find out how some of these other bullets shoot in my SOCOM, I will decide which ones I will use for deer and pigs starting in November.

Thanks again for the tests.

I will also try and get some shots into game where I can recover the bullets.

NE450#2

Glad you made it back. No thanks needed.

Far more damage to test medium up front with the 325 BBW#13 Solid than the Hornady RN. Damage of course tapered off after 6-8 inches, and it started drilling from there.

You might look hard at pairing up the 350 Hornady--Flat Nose that did extremely well in my opinion, and I think I feel it a bit more reliable and consistent than some of the others, and the 325 BBW#13 Solid.

I like the little 300 Remington, in fact, yesterday just ordered 500 more for the kids to plink around with in my Super Short.

Michael

I have a few of those Hornady 350 FN's but they might be from the first run of them, as I have had them a while. They also shot a little higher in my rifle than the other bullets I have shot, but I mag get some new ones and test them again.

I also kinda like the results of the 325gr Hornady FTX. It seems to open up some, even at velocities as low as 900fps.

And with the plastic tip there is not a danger of a Hollow Point getting clogged up with mud on a wet and muddy pig, as a lot of the ones I shoot have just come across the river.

I had some of the very first 350 Hornady FN, and tested them years ago. They were exactly the same tested as the 350 RN. Under 1600 fps impacts they did nothing, no expansion, nothing. I figured at the time that all Hornady did was take the RN, and Flatten it, same bullet. And, pretty sure that was the case. And had held that thought right up until I actually tested the ones I have here, and got that big surprise. Somewhere along the line Hornady made a change with the FN for better lower velocity terminals.

The 325 FTX did fine as well. And with the tip has some advantages, especially at that lower velocity impact.

Still waiting on the 300 North Forks, should be any day now. When they get in, we will give them a whirl and see what happens.

Just FYI, and I don't think it would be something you could use because of LVSP, but I had some 250 gr BBW#13 NonCon HPs done, was testing today at high velocity in some of the 458s, including 45/70. I will try and get some low velocity shear points maybe this week, but still suspect those will be 1500 or so at shear point. Not good for what you want, unless you could get velocity high enough to extend range? Maybe? I will send some for you to try.

All good stuff!

Michael

I cronoed the loads in the 458 Socom today.
This rifle is a Wilson factory rifle with a 14" barrel, that has a flash hider permentally welded and pinned to make the minimum legal length.

Velocities are an average of 3 rounds, except where noted.

300gr Remington HP, 31.5gr of H 110, 1622fps.
300gr Hornady HP, 31.5gr of H 110, 1771fps.
300gr Barnes TTSX 29gr of H 110,1649.7fps.


325 Hornady Lever Evoultion bullet, 31gr H 110, 1714fps.
325 BBW#13, 31gr H 110, 1642fps.
325 North Fork CPES, 31gr of H 110, 1749fps. [one round only].

350 Hornady RN, 36.5gr IMR 4198, 1630fps.
350 Speer FN, 31gr H 110, 1605fps.
350 SBR Factory 350gr SP, 1485fps.

400gr Speer, 35gr IMR 4198,1553fps.

None of these loads showed high pressure signs.

Bised on the above Crono info, and the expansion test results from michael, my deer/pig hunting plan for this season is the following.

I will try and shoot a deer or pig with the following bullets.
The 300gr Hornady.

I have one of the 325 Hornady Lever Evolution bullets left, I will try and shoot a pig with it. It hits in the same group at 100 yards as the other bullets I first tested.

The 400 Speer, I will try to shoot a deer and/or a pig.

I have one 325 North Fork bullet left. The 2 I shot were touching at 100 yards, again in the center of the group all the other bullets make.
I will try to shoot a big pig with this one.

I have plenty of the 325 BBW#13, [Thanks to michael458]. I think I cpould load these up a little faster, but I do not have time to test that increase before I leave to go hunt. However at 1642fps, baised on michaels tests I think they will give plenty of penetration.

I will load up some tomorrow and try to shoot a big pig with them, and I will use them for any follow up of any animal I shoot and it runs out of sight, and when I am walking up pigs, on Pig Alley I will carry some as shot 2 or 3 and on down in the magazine for raking shots on running pigs.

And then, if I get a chance at another pig I will try one of the Hornady 350gr RN bullets, as I have a bunch of these, and they are very accurate in my SOCOM as well.

The 300gr Barnes TTSX rates further testing. I think I can load it a little faster. It hits a few inches left of my other loads that all hit in the same group.

Maybe if I Ran it a little faster it would hit with the other loads...

NE450#2

Excellent, all those velocities compare close to the points we have been testing for terminals, so that should give you a bit of an idea of what performance you are going to get with the Socom.

I was able to test the 300 North Fork Premium Soft yesterday, and it appears a little tougher than I though at low velocity. It did well, penetration was great, dead straight, decent trauma for the velocity, and I think would fall right in with your Socom velocity.




While this is an excellent bullet, and gives extremely consistent solid results, we have had good results from several other bullets as well at these lower velocities.

Michael