I am curious as to why the .375 is in the "Big Bore" forum. Is it a concession to Saeed?

Most of the books I have on rifles consider the .375 to be a medium bore.

Just wondering?

BH63

To me, the dilemma is, big BORE vs. big GAME.

In Africa, big game is basically the big 5 (or 7 if you prefer). That is DG. It can be argued successfully, I believe, that Leopard and Croc do not need large bores.

And by ‘most’ African game departments, the 375 bore is legal for DG. Some even allow the 9.3 caliber. Zambia even allows 30 caliber(308) for Buffalo I believe.

So, the waters are murky when it comes to the 375 bore classification.

I have taken both Lion and Buff with the 375 H&H and had no complaints whatsoever. Saeed has taken hundreds with his 375-404.

Still, for me the 375 is a medium BORE, but a big GAME rifle.

I taught mathematics for a living, so I guess it’s that prejudice that forces me to categorize all 20-calibers as small bores, 30-calibers as mediums, and 40-calibers as large bores (50-calibers as Ultra-big bores?!). We mathematicians are left-brained. Sorry...

I just had another added thought to my medium bore prejudice.

I guess I don’t handle scope-rifle recoil like Jeffeosso and others here. It amazes me when I read and see folks shooting things like a 505 Gibbs with a scope. First, there is the recoil forces on the scope itself and its longevity to consider, but more importantly to me is my eyebrow. I have all the respect in the world for these folks who can shoot an ultra-big bore(and just big bores too) with a scope.

Anyway, for me, I scope only small and medium bores. I have no trouble with scopes on 375s.

I believe this is another reason, for me, that I classify the 375 as a medium bore, besides the number thing I mentioned in my previous post.

This question is here time to time for about 20 years ;-)

My point of view:

I use 375 H&H for all "rifle game" here. In the eyes of the most hunters here it is "big bore".

(Also when travelled with that rifle to USA, customs at JFK asked me: "What caliber is this?". I said: "Three seven five". They replied: "No elephants here".)


But if rifle will be, for example in .500 S&W, will it be "big bore"? Yes, it has bigger hole, but half the muzzle energy.

So what is the criteria for big bore? Just "caliber"? Will be then 12 gauge 3" with rifled barrel big bore? Or is it energy? Or both?

Or is it just feeling what is and what is not "big bore"?

:-)

Jiri

No it is not a big bore. But to most, 99% of, hunters and shooters, it is positively huge.
Big Game or not, It isn't.

i consider it to be a heavy medium, however, it's legal for dangerous game .. its a fun round

while a 45/70 classically loaded is a big bore, it's not legal for the big five ... in classic loadings, not talking about super hot rod loads

No. It is not.

Concession to Saeed? More like a directive from Saeed to be included here.

South of the Mason Dixon line the 30-06 is considered a big bore

Seems it should be a medium-bore, but always seems to find it’s way into the big-bore neighborhood! memtb

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
South of the Mason Dixon line the 30-06 is considered a big bore

Hey....that “stings” a little! I’m from down yonder, and always considered it a medium! memtb

It's not a true big bore but legal for everything so gets a pass. Forty caliber should really be where big bores start.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
South of the Mason Dixon line the 30-06 is considered a big bore

I actually remember when I thought the same way in my 20s. I then shot a friends 338 WM and handed it back to him after one shot. Now, I own and shoot a 505 Gibbs.

I think my comments and most everyone else’s refer to African hunting.

But I like your humor Phil!

What difference does it makec on the Real World????

Why has it became so important to create lines of division on practically everything?

100 years ago anything lighter than an 8 bore was considered a small bore. Times change.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
It's not a true big bore but legal for everything so gets a pass. Forty caliber should really be where big bores start.

Well said. Short but succinct...

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Why has it became so important to create lines of division on practically everything?

Two words: Left Brain.

They like to organize & categorize their worlds. Usually, numerically...

You can consider it as a small varmint cartridge if you wish.

Won't make much of a difference to its ability and what it had achieved in Africa.

I have seen dangerous game being shot with 460 Weatherby and several 416 cartridges.

None died any quicker than with a 375.

It is a big bore cartridge because it is legal for any dangerous animal that walks this earth.

Of course, those with less abilities as hunters like to use bigger cartridges to make up for their own shortcomings!

You know, like "I use a 600 Nitro Express! Because they do not make anything bigger"

It is here on this forum works for me.

If you start your own forum you can classify it as a squirrel gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
If you start your own forum you can classify it as a squirrel gun.

With cast bullets, light loads, and restricting yourself to headshots....rabbits, squirrels and grouse are on the menu! Truly an “all around” cartridge! memtb

Hell, figure out the loading and some sort of over the powder wad and then an over the shot wad and it might make a hell of a dove or quail killer!

What go think, 1/2 ounce of number 8's????

Regardless, the .375 H&H has one hell of a reputation and Track Record!

memtb: Shot hare with 300 gr A-Frame, regular load, neck shot. There was no damage to venison, none. Clean in, clean out. Also shot some roe deer, red deer, mouflons, wild boars - no meat damage (with A-frames), clean one shot kills.

I used to take my 375H&h and re-chambered Roger #1 460 Weatherby Magnums to the rubbish dump and shoot seagulls with them

them's some big seagulls.

To African hunters, the 375 is a medium, all-around carry rifle. To regular hunters, it's an absolute cannon.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
To African hunters, the 375 is a medium, all-around carry rifle. To regular hunters, it's an absolute cannon.

The 375 is the real starting point (increasing as caliber increases) where factory boxes of ammo are well-worn due to bubbas hauling one out, and, after whistling, hand it to their friend and say, “Look at that sumbitch!” Said boxes will eventually wind up in year-end closeout sales only to be fondled even more so...

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
To African hunters, the 375 is a medium, all-around carry rifle. To regular hunters, it's an absolute cannon.

Well said Biebs. Again, short, succinct and to the point of, African hunting vs. the rest of the world hunting.

And this is no disrespect to the 375 bore. It has proven itself on DG in Africa for over a century. Over and over. That is WHY it is legal for DG in almost all African countries.

In the real world the 375 bore is a big bore. It is where rifles (eg. M70) starting getting more expensive. From memory a M70 375 is more expensive than the Super Grade and the 375 comes with their standard wood.

Take Weatherby, the 378, 416 and 460 are not available in any of their cheaper synthetic/fibreglass models, the Deluxe is the minimum entry point.

Classically, from the British colonial days when referring to smokeless rounds I thought the lines were anything under .30 was a small bore, and a large bore was a .45 or larger.

The .375 was the queen of the mid bores, and the various low .40’s were often referred to as light heavies at times.

The .375 H&H and the .450-400/.416’s/.404 are all excellent all around rifles in DG territory, but the big bores were what was recommended for serious elephant work.

It’s all kind of academic now with better bullets and a decided lack of one man going off on his own with some hirelings and living off the land while either exploring or making his living.

There is NOTHING a 500 caliber will do to an animal that a 375 will not.

One cannot kill an animal more than dead, and that requires destroying a major part of it.

The notion that a marginal hit with a larger bore will do more damage than a marginal hit with a 375 is nothing but a figment of the imagination!

And sheer ignorance!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There is NOTHING a 500 caliber will do to an animal that a 375 will not.

One cannot kill an animal more than dead, and that requires destroying a major part of it.

The notion that a marginal hit with a larger bore will do more damage than a marginal hit with a 375 is nothing but a figment of the imagination!

And sheer ignorance!

Saeed,

I would agree with what you say for big animals. For one thing, in relation to their size a 460 or 505 are very small in power.

But with smaller animals like pigs, goats and kangaroos a different story.

Mike,

I do not think the pig, goat or 'roo will be able to tell any difference from .375 to .505 hole right through them.
Surely you do not mean to handicap the bigger bores with softer bullets so they produce more meat damage?
Better bullet placement with the bigger bores?
No, that's not it.
Better hits at long range on the smaller critters with the bigger bores?
No that's not it either.
I am bumfuzzled as to how a .505 might be better than a .375 on a pig, goat or 'roo.

Rip ...

Funny. First time I shot a .375, I thought it was a cannon. Was kind of in awe of Jeffeoso with what he could do with a .416 at a shoot. Then I got a .416 that's a one hole rifle. The only time I've taken a .375 to Africa it was my light rifle. They used to consider the .40's medium.

I am going to send a note to the hundreds of dangerous game - elephants, buffalo, hippo, lion - to ask them if they noticed any difference in the way they were shot with my 375!

Saeed, just because a .375 is a medium bore doesn't mean it is not a good DG rifle.

You have proven that.

The only argument comes in what is the definition of small, medium, and large bores.

Historically, it was the colonial English that had the nomenclature invented, and their nomenclature was sub .30 was a small bore. Heck, Bell called his 7mm a small bore but used it on elephant.

.30 to .45 was medium bore.

.45 on up was large bore.

While there were exceptions, small bores were used on non dangerous game, mid bores were used on "thin skinned" dangerous animals, especially at a distance, and large bores were used on dangerous big game at close range.

I think all would agree with you that a .375 is fully capable of killing any game animal, including elephant. Just because it's able to do the job doesn't mean that the definition has to change- it's a medium bore, not a medium game gun.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Mike,

I do not think the pig, goat or 'roo will be able to tell any difference from .375 to .505 hole right through them.
Surely you do not mean to handicap the bigger bores with softer bullets so they produce more meat damage?
Better bullet placement with the bigger bores?
No, that's not it.
Better hits at long range on the smaller critters with the bigger bores?
No that's not it either.
I am bumfuzzled as to how a .505 might be better than a .375 on a pig, goat or 'roo.

Rip ...

Ron,

I was thinking of so much of 375 and 460 on that stuff but small stuff compared to bigger stuff.

In the old days, when they used 4 bore for hunting, a 375 might be classified as small bore.

Today, it is most definitely a big bore!

Certainly in performance.

Now that this has been clarified to my satisfaction, I know where (and why) to post my next discussion.

LOL

BH63

In the true meaning of big bore and how it came about, no, the 375 is not a true big bore.
Big bore starts at 45 cal. Period.

Cheers.

I dont know but its my favourite caliber nd i use it for red stags or water buffalo .