quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Packing a true big bore, such as a 500, 577 or 600 is a joke, they weigh too much and the gun bearer no longer exist to any great degree..not to mention the 600 does not kill any better than the 470, 450-3.1/4. etc..In fact in a charge situation they recoil to much and that slows down a second accurate shot, something seldom mentioned...Ive only seen them used once or twice on game and wasn't allthat impressed..Most folks buy them to walk the isles of SCI it seems to me..A charging buffalo is killed with a brain or spine shot, they can take a lot of bullet in the chest area before dieing once the adrenaline starts to flow form a poor first shot..

Just my opine, nor required for anyone but me. I don't even like the holy grail of double rifles, the 470, its a killer, but too heavy for a 15 mile walk, and the last couple of safari I was on a 2 mile walk was a bitch, but I finally got that fixed..

As a young man, I could hump a M60 machine gun through jungles without any ill effects. As I recall, that thing weighed over 20 lbs not counting the belt of ammo.

At 66, I have found that lighter is better, much better!

I think that the weight of a rifle becomes more important as we enter our golden years.

Just saying.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Packing a true big bore, such as a 500, 577 or 600 is a joke, they weigh too much and the gun bearer no longer exist to any great degree..not to mention the 600 does not kill any better than the 470, 450-3.1/4. etc..In fact in a charge situation they recoil to much and that slows down a second accurate shot, something seldom mentioned...Ive only seen them used once or twice on game and wasn't allthat impressed..Most folks buy them to walk the isles of SCI it seems to me..A charging buffalo is killed with a brain or spine shot, they can take a lot of bullet in the chest area before dieing once the adrenaline starts to flow form a poor first shot..

Just my opine, nor required for anyone but me. I don't even like the holy grail of double rifles, the 470, its a killer, but too heavy for a 15 mile walk, and the last couple of safari I was on a 2 mile walk was a bitch, but I finally got that fixed..

As a young man, I could hump a M60 machine gun through jungles without any ill effects. As I recall, that thing weighed over 20 lbs not counting the belt of ammo.

At 66, I have found that lighter is better, much better!

I think that the weight of a rifle becomes more important as we enter our golden years.

Somewhat true , ...

... but most dudes over 60 who want to hunt really need to lay off the donut-stuffing sessions in the a.m., and get their fat asses into a gym.

Diet, exercise, and a hot young girlfriend make life go around, ... which can only help your physical ability to get out into the fields, woods, or boonies and kill stuff.

This should be easy to do - and even easier to understand - unless you're some kind of Oklahoma moron.

At my age? are you kidding me, that's a recipe for disaster!~

Best I can do is a fwt 06 and a good horse or pickup, and two sons and grandsons I been doing that for over the last 40 years. Its their turn to pack me around. do the dirty work while I watch..

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
This should be easy to do - and even easier to understand - unless you're some kind of Oklahoma moron.

Is this a Texas-Oklahoma trope like in the Kentucky-Indiana joke feud?

Rip ...

Since my childhood the.375HH was always deemed as a medium bore FWIW

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
When a buffalo charges, you better brain it.

Regardless of the caliber.

And if you brain it, regardless of the caliber, it will stop and die.

We approached a wounded bull.

Hidden in a thicket.

A friend was carrying a 500 double, and I was carrying my 375/404.

Less than 7 yards away the buffalo started to get up - he was facing us.

We both fired.

I brained it.

My friend hit it in the knee!

I had a scope.

He had open sights!

I keep telling people.

One shot!

That is all one gets in a bad situation.

This^^^^^^^^^^ is fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There is NOTHING a 500 caliber will do to an animal that a 375 will not.

One cannot kill an animal more than dead, and that requires destroying a major part of it.

The notion that a marginal hit with a larger bore will do more damage than a marginal hit with a 375 is nothing but a figment of the imagination!

And sheer ignorance!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There is NOTHING a 500 caliber will do to an animal that a 375 will not.

One cannot kill an animal more than dead, and that requires destroying a major part of it.

The notion that a marginal hit with a larger bore will do more damage than a marginal hit with a 375 is nothing but a figment of the imagination!

And sheer ignorance!

Sorry but this simply isn't true 100%.


There are exceptions.

Yes, agreed that you can't kill an animal more than dead, but how fast you kill, or more importantly whether or not you stop a dangerous animal under certain conditions, are sometimes affected by small margins.

There is a very specific example were the larger bore gives an edge. An edge, that even marginally, may be enough.

That is, a close brain miss on elephant. There is something about this specific animal that lends them to be susceptible to what I think is similar to a knock out in boxing or MMA. There are limits to this phenomenon however and a true big bore is not a panacea with which one can just blast away at the head and expect good results. You can't. But no one, and I mean, NO ONE, can place the shot in the brain every single time, from any angle, under duress, every single time.

Just watch some of the videos of Buzz's hunts if you need more evidence. He has numerous clips where a close brain miss dropped and stopped the animal, only to have it get up and run away. But the charge was stopped!! As Buzz has stated, he's seen real evidence of larger bore rifles having an advantage in this situation. I've experienced it as well, having never had an elephant take a step or attempt to get up when shooting my 500NE. However a few years ago, I hit a cow a bit low and to the right on a frontal shot with my 577NE. She dropped immediately, then got up. It's that drop or stop that can be very important.

It's absolutely true that a well placed 375 is better than a poorly placed 500. But a well placed 500 is equally effective as a well placed 375. Some of us enjoy working up to and meeting the challenge handling the larger weapon requires as a 375 is much easier to shoot well. The marginal advantage comes when both the 375 or the true big bore don't find the mark 100%. In that case, within limits, the big bore CAN have an advantage under certain circumstances.

Put a 9 lbs .375 h&h in the hand of anybody under the the age of 39 and ask them.

99.9% will say yes, emphantically.

After much consideration, I am firmly in agreement with JOC, who in his book “Rifles and Shotguns”, stated “The .375 is the queen of the mediums.”

As to working out in the gym to get in shape, I can knock out 25 push-ups without breaking a sweat, but my arthritic hip and knee screamingly protest any serious cardio workouts.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
After much consideration, I am firmly in agreement with JOC, who in his book “Rifles and Shotguns”, stated “The .375 is the queen of the mediums.”

As to working out in the gym to get in shape, I can knock out 25 push-ups without breaking a sweat, but my arthritic hip and knee screamingly protest any serious cardio workouts.

BH63

try swimming for your cardio: pretty sure hip and knee will thank you ....

when I was in my teens (just turning 62) we had shooters bibles, and all sorts of Remington / Winchester ammo brochures etc.
Hell, I never saw anything larger than a 375 H&H and a 458 WM.
Never new some the cartridges we talk regularly about today even existed. LOL...
Weaver scopes. Our deer hunting blinds were a 2X6 nailed up in a tree.
So yes a 375 is a big bore. Second to the largest I knew existed in the 60's..

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
After much consideration, I am firmly in agreement with JOC, who in his book “Rifles and Shotguns”, stated “The .375 is the queen of the mediums.”

As to working out in the gym to get in shape, I can knock out 25 push-ups without breaking a sweat, but my arthritic hip and knee screamingly protest any serious cardio workouts.

BH63

try swimming for your cardio: pretty sure hip and knee will thank you ....

Thanks for the advice!

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
when I was in my teens (just turning 62) we had shooters bibles, and all sorts of Remington / Winchester ammo brochures etc.
Hell, I never saw anything larger than a 375 H&H and a 458 WM.
Never new some the cartridges we talk regularly about today even existed. LOL...
Weaver scopes. Our deer hunting blinds were a 2X6 nailed up in a tree.
So yes a 375 is a big bore. Second to the largest I knew existed in the 60's..

EZ

Using that logic, the .350 Rem Mag, the .338 Win Mag, and a whole slew of other medium rifles are all big bores.

I like Tony Sanchez-Arino's definition of an elephant gun:

at least 4000 ft.lb of ME, at least 2000 fps MV, and at least .40 caliber. To me, that seems like a more realistic, updated of what should be defined as a "big bore".

Of course, JMO.

BH63

Had a tracker long time ago, down in "my Africa" since gone to happier hunting grounds.

When hunters arrived to hunt he would when going out for the first time take their rifles by the barrel and he would stick his little finger down the bore.... and if he could not get it in, would simply scoff "Two-Two" and hand the rifle back....... the look on their faces priceless !

I bet if someone started a thread here along the lines of ...I want to get my first big bore etc. …

In fact not long ago on a Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum such a thread was started. In fact that type of thread comes a few times every year

If started on AR I would bet the responses would be the same. Firstly, 338, 340 Wby or 358 anything would not get a mention. It would be all 375 H&H and up with some 375 H&H Vs 375 Ruger in the thread and a mention of the 9.3 X 62

^
I live in CO and no one I know thinks of a .338 Win as anything more than a great elk/bear cartridge.

I guess it is based upon where you live and what you normally hunt.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
After much consideration, I am firmly in agreement with JOC, who in his book “Rifles and Shotguns”, stated “The .375 is the queen of the mediums.”

As to working out in the gym to get in shape, I can knock out 25 push-ups without breaking a sweat, but my arthritic hip and knee screamingly protest any serious cardio workouts.

BH63

try swimming for your cardio: pretty sure hip and knee will thank you ....

Thanks for the advice! BH63

Swimming is an excellent cardio substitute for running and actually works to strengthen knees, hips, and related muscle joints and ligaments.

Pro football players who've suffered serious knee injuries and can't run wind-sprints in practice are often re-hab-ed this way while still getting a cardio work-out.

However, as the sports medicine folks point out, there's a catch: you have to swim a significant number of 'laps' daily for some minimum period of time (45-minutes to an hour) to reap any cardio benefit.

Just swirling around lazily in the shallow end of the pool with your kid's rubber ducky won't cut it.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
After much consideration, I am firmly in agreement with JOC, who in his book “Rifles and Shotguns”, stated “The .375 is the queen of the mediums.”

As to working out in the gym to get in shape, I can knock out 25 push-ups without breaking a sweat, but my arthritic hip and knee screamingly protest any serious cardio workouts.

BH63

try swimming for your cardio: pretty sure hip and knee will thank you ....

Thanks for the advice! BH63

Swimming is an excellent cardio substitute for running and actually works to strengthen knees, hips, and related muscle joints and ligaments.

Pro football players who've suffered serious knee injuries and can't run wind-sprints in practice are often re-hab-ed this way while still getting a cardio work-out.

However, as the sports medicine folks point out, there's a catch: you have to swim a significant number of 'laps' daily for some minimum period of time (45-minutes to an hour) to reap any cardio benefit.

Just swirling around lazily in the shallow end of the pool with your kid's rubber ducky won't cut it.

there is no cardio excercises that can done be lazily anyway....i suggested swimming as it saved my butt after a hard knee surgery ...

Call it what you will, but if I was limited to only one rifle for hunting everything in the world it would be a CRF bolt rifle with iron sights, and a quick detach return to zero scope chambered for 375H&H with a 300 gr quality bullet @ 2500 fps!


……………………...Hold on till I get my foxhole dug!