The Accurate Reloading Forums
Double Rifle Raffle... Just an Idea.
15 December 2005, 10:20
bulldog563Double Rifle Raffle... Just an Idea.
I am thinking about doing a raffle for a Searcy DR. Just wanted to see what the level of interest would be. Still in the formative stages but to give an idea of what I was thinking. Tickets 50 dollars each with only 200-300 sold. Depending on the amount of tickets it would either be a PH (200 tickets) or a Deluxe (300) tickets. Would anyone be interested and if so how many tickets may you want. Thought it would be a nice christmas present for some lucky person.
Note: This is just to assess interest. No raffle has started as of yet.
15 December 2005, 10:54
Hog KillerWell, I guess I would be in for one ticket. Would the winner get to pick the caliber and pay for wood up grade?
Hog Killer
IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!!
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We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club
15 December 2005, 11:40
bulldog563the winner would basically get the cost of a PH to do as they pleased. You could do anything you want with it at Butch's shop.
15 December 2005, 15:02
jeffeossobulldog,
you have a PM.
remember to all, the FIRST thing that needs to be done is to get Saeed's permission.
Go search in the africa forum for the raffle. Rusty, Browningguy, Mike_D and I did that. While it worked out, I would not be willing to be a coordinator again.
good luck, I'll buy a ticket or 2, AFTER you have Saeed's permisison
jeffe
15 December 2005, 17:25
hikerbumDoes the full proceeds of all tickets sold go towards the winner, or is there someone or some charity benefiting from this. Jus curious
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
15 December 2005, 18:47
boom stickdo what jeffe says and i will wager...especially if it is for a good charity although to some here "I" am a charity
15 December 2005, 19:44
bulldog563Jeffe, I agree that we would definitely need Saeed's permission first. I was going to pm him about it but figured why bother him unless enough people were interested.
Hikerbum, It was really just a thought to do another raffle. It could be however everyone wants it as long as any legalities work out.
Also I am a relatively new member it would have to be run by a few trusted long time members to avoid the feelings of any impropriety (sp?) and besides I want a chance to win.
15 December 2005, 19:59
577NitroExpressYou are going to need a lot of buy in on this to cover the cost of a PH model.
577NitroExpress
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Francotte .470 Nitro Express
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... 15 December 2005, 20:03
Ben589I would be in for a ticket, pending Saeed's nod.
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Cleachdadh mi fo m' féileadh dé tha an m' osan.
15 December 2005, 20:12
BrentI'd be game, but at that price, I would also want some assurances that I'd get my money back if the raffle didn't sell out. I have serious doubts that another double gun raffle would ever sell out here. I'm game to play though.
Brent
When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
15 December 2005, 20:13
sierrabravo45I would be in for a ticket to, it would be nice if the extra proceeds benefited something.
Like the "John's Gun Fund"
Trust Me, I would use your insight and use the money wisely....
Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent.
DRSS .470 & .500
15 December 2005, 21:21
577NitroExpressEither give the extra $$$ to charity, or use it as add ons for the DR, i.e., wood upgrade, engraving, folding sights, grip cap, etc.
577NitroExpress
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... 16 December 2005, 05:55
500grainsI am all in favor of this, but a heads up to the organizers - you could run afoul of the lottery laws and end up in a bit of hot water, notwithstanding that it has been done successfully before.
16 December 2005, 06:07
calgarychef1Ohhh, I hope there is some way to include Canadians here. I don't know how hard it would be to export to Canada but I'd be willing to pay for the paperwork.
count me in if it's possible
the chef
16 December 2005, 06:13
700 nitrocalgarychef i import rifles all the time from the us if your intersted i could explain the process to you........for a small fee i will import it.
im in for at least 2 tickets.
16 December 2005, 09:17
PCI reckon I may get a ticket as it may be my only chance of ever getting a Double, could you choose it in .500 nitro or .577 nitro if you wanted that calibre if you name was drawn ??
16 December 2005, 09:59
BigFiveJackI'd be in for 2 ticks / PC be aware the .577 rifle is 18K I think, see
http://www.searcyent.com
Jack
OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.}
16 December 2005, 16:13
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
I am all in favor of this, but a heads up to the organizers - you could run afoul of the lottery laws and end up in a bit of hot water, notwithstanding that it has been done successfully before.
Morning Dan,
this might not have been perfectly clear.. this is a raffle (lottery)for a prize (goods) not a lotto (lottery) for cash.
The latter is gambling, per statute.
jeffe
16 December 2005, 16:27
JohnTheGreekI don't think it matters whether the lottery is for cash or goods from a legal perspective...if there is some profit in it then the law might be interested. Now, it might be argued, even if $9500 worth of tickets is sold for a $9500 rifle that there is still gain in it from an advertising perspective. I think it would be tough for the law to be too interested though if the thing was organized by a third party not in the firearms industry or hunt booking business who is simply using Saeed's site as the forum to put the process together. I also can't imagine the law would go after Don for helping Saeed profit from this site as it's pretty clear that's not what our host is in this for. As for the law going after Saeed directly....GOOD LUCK!
I am in for a ticket or two should it get off the ground....but I want NO factory engraving on that rifle if I win.
Best,
John
16 December 2005, 17:11
Ben589Again -- all pending Saeed's backing.
If you need a third party charity, let me know.
I'd be happy to take some of the proceeds for the Shriner's Hospitals. We could probably sell 400 tickets that way too, and limit it to 400?
Alcazar in Montgomery has an ongoing mega gun raffle every year. I'm out of Pensacola - and I'd have to clear it with the potentate or recorder (secretary) first, but where there's money coming in that doesn't cost the temple anything - they're generally all ears.
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Cleachdadh mi fo m' féileadh dé tha an m' osan.
16 December 2005, 17:23
500grainsBen, that is a nice offer.
Jeff, here is one of several statutes that may be applicable:
quote:
Title 18, United States Code
Section 1301. Importing or transporting lottery tickets
Whoever brings into the United States for the purpose of disposing of the same, or knowingly deposits with any express company or other common carrier for carriage, or carries in interstate or foreign commerce any paper, certificate, or instrument purporting to be or to represent a ticket, chance, share, or interest in or dependent upon the event of a lottery, gift enterprise, or similar scheme, offering prizes dependent in whole or in part upon lot or chance, or any advertisement of, or list of the prizes drawn or awarded by means of, any such lottery, gift, [1] enterprise, or similar scheme; or being engaged in the business of procuring for a person in one state such a ticket, chance, share, or interest in a lottery, gift, enterprise or similar scheme conducted by another state (unless that business is permitted under an agreement between the states in question or appropriate authorities of those states), knowingly transmits in interstate or foreign commerce information to be used for the purpose of procuring such a ticket, chance, share, or interest; or knowingly takes or receives any such paper, certificate, instrument, advertisement, or list so brought, deposited, or transported, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more that two years, or both.
Section 1302. Mailing lottery tickets or related matter
Whoever knowingly deposits in the mail, or sends or delivers by mail:
Any letter, package, postal card, or circular concerning any lottery, gift enterprise, or similar scheme offering prizes dependent in whole or in part upon lot or chance;
Any lottery ticket or part thereof, or paper, certificate, or instrument purporting to be or to represent a ticket, chance, share, or interest in or dependent upon the event of a lottery, gift enterprise, or similar scheme offering prizes dependent in whole or in part upon lot or chance;
Any check, draft, bill, money, postal note, or money order, for the purchase of any ticket or part thereof, or of any share or chance in any such lottery, gift enterprise, or scheme;
Any newspaper, circular, pamphlet, or publication of any kind containing any advertisement of any lottery, gift enterprise, or scheme of any kind offering prizes dependent in whole or in part upon lot or chance, or containing any list of the prizes drawn or awarded by means of any such lottery, gift enterprise, or scheme, whether said list contains any part or all of such prizes;
Any article described in section 1953 of this title
-- shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both; and for any subsequent offense shall be imprisoned not more than five years.
16 December 2005, 17:32
Ben589500 -- what does that statute mean? That it's illegal across the board?
I'm confused because I've seen folks do it several times -- even here on AR a while back someone was doing a multi-state lottery raffle on an AR-15 predator package for some Texas children's charity, and I've seen it in other places as well.
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Cleachdadh mi fo m' féileadh dé tha an m' osan.
16 December 2005, 17:46
577NitroExpressWhat if everything was done electronically? Via email and payment for the tickets done via PayPal?
577NitroExpress
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... 16 December 2005, 17:53
500grainsBen, there are exceptions (such as for charities to raise funds). Most of the raffles you see are technically illegal. The offense is seldom prosecuted unless someone is doing it for a living. But there is a risk that a non-winning participant may bring suit alleging unfairness, and the lottery organizers may end up giving out multiple winning prizes, which would be a financial disaster. Also keep in mind that the laws of the states where the participants are located also apply to the transaction, making legal compliance very difficult. I assume Shriners has legal counsel familiar with the lottery laws who have set things up properly in the past.
577, use of electronic payment methods simply invokes different statutes.
16 December 2005, 18:09
jeffeossoDan,
you are the lawyer.. just think you've got the gambling vs raffle thing wrong. Of course you can find the far end, low percentage exception to the rule, but that's law in general. If a person presents as a NFP raffle, helping some group, and it goes in their pocket, then yep, that person is guilty of FRAUD, but the mechanism is not illegal.. at least in most jurisdictions.
Of course, if it were, then every school district would have it's board on charges for contributing to the delinquency of minors!!! LOL
jeffe
16 December 2005, 18:29
Ben589Yeah, the Shriners have got several lawyers "on staff" -- I'll send out an email to some of them to see what the legal issues might be.
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Cleachdadh mi fo m' féileadh dé tha an m' osan.
16 December 2005, 18:33
Ben589I don't want to get too far ahead of myself -- I'm bad about taking an idea and just moving forward with it...
If Saeed says it's ok, and folks are interested in that avenue -- I'll send out the appropriate requests for information.
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Cleachdadh mi fo m' féileadh dé tha an m' osan.
17 December 2005, 01:21
calgarychef1You, could (maybe) do a contest ......say an essay contest as to why you would like to have said rifle. Now this is a contest of skill not chance. How the organizer chooses the "best" essay is up to him
Some people do that to raffle off houses around here.
What do the lawyers think about that one?
the chef
17 December 2005, 01:46
54JNollPending approval I would be in for at least 2 tickets.
17 December 2005, 04:01
Brad_RolstonIn for a ticket if Saeed approves.
Brad
Brad Rolston African Hunting
P.O. Box 506
Stella
8650
Kalahari
South Africa
Tel : + 27 82 574 9928
Fax : + 27 86 672 6854
E-Mail : rolston585ae@iafrica.com
17 December 2005, 04:07
SnowwolfeI would be in for a ticket but only if the winning number was tied to something like the closing bell numbers from the NYSE. To draw a number from a hat is simply to easy to rig.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
17 December 2005, 04:14
waterratI'd buy a couple and choosing your own caliber is mind boogeling. 12 yrs ago my wife bought a ticket for a custom 338 from the Alaska Safari Club and won.
I tend to use more than enough gun
17 December 2005, 05:56
WYI would not be surprised if there were enough interest to offer two or more rifles.
DRSS
NRA Life Member
VDD-GNA
17 December 2005, 16:52
BwanaBobCan us foreigners play too?
If so, I would be in for a ticket.
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)
www.cybersafaris.com.au 17 December 2005, 17:02
blackbearhunterGreat idea!Yes!
17 December 2005, 19:22
ErikDIf it's approved by the powers that be, then I'm in too.
18 December 2005, 19:27
Bwana-beMe too!
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.