Lots of banter back and forth about recoil and who can handle what, what is possible etc.Can you guys that shoot the big guns share some of your knowledge with us? I shoot a 458 Lott that weighs 9# and have shot it a lot at game but not that much on the range (African PH's dont have money to burn on large amounts of ammo!!) I have shot .500 doubles, 470's etc but nothing in the .500 Jeff, 505 Gibbs range. I enjoy my Lott but cannot imagine anything with more recoil being enjoyable? I tend to shoot all open sights like a shotgun with a tight cheek weld and really get down on the gun - which you need to do when shooting fast and instinctively.

In the interest of sharing knowledge and teaching us a thing or two please share your knowledge. And lets hope this thread doesnt degenerate like some of the others!

The reality is, its all according to how the rifle is set-up.

I have a 308 lightweight rifle that kicks like a pissed off mule. Its a real sharp short recoil that just stings your teeth when its shot. I have a close personal friend who has a 375 RUM and kicks less than my 308. I can shoot the 375 all day long, my 308 I got about 5-8 shots and I can't stand anymore cause I get jumpy and nervous.

I have yet to shoot anything bigger tahn the 375, but I also learned a lesson on the Ruger rifle. A solid cheek weld is a must, good stance and have the rifle firmly in the pocket of your shoulder. If you get lazy and gingerly put the cheek against the rifle, it will punch you in the face and you will not be a happy camper. I done this, and got laughed at pretty hard while I was sitting in a chair counting tweety birds flying around my head.

I own a 458 CZ Lott and that rifle doesn't kick
much at all standing. It fits real nice into my shoulder. On the beanch I use a sand bag.

Some people don't mind recoil, and some just plain can't handle it. There's a guy at the trap club w/ a Browning XT all set up with a spring loaded shock pad, large gun, heavy, shooting TRAP LOADS.

"That gun beats the hell out of me."

I'm shooting a .458 WM Ruger No. 1 and really expected more recoil than I get. I've offered to let people shoot this gun, and they all turn it down, like it's a bad snake or something.

It's just a large bore gun, and it kicks. But it's not going to kill you. I've shot 20 or 30 rds off the bench w/ it -- full bore 500 gr. stuff. I reload and bought it to shoot.

We're looking at a T Rex -- but then I don't hunt with them, so what's the point really?

Here is what I do:- I place the but in the vee of my shoulder, (ie where the collar bone meets the shoulder bone), this prevents the recoil from jarring your shoulder. I pull the gun in tight. I grip tight with the right hand. (This prevents the trigger guard from bashing your middle finger). I pull the gun into my body with the left hand (I am a right handed shooter). I bend my left knee slightly and put my weight on my left foot, with my right foot slightly behind me. Then I squeeze the trigger while maintainig a clear sight picture. (Concentrating on the sight picture helps avoid the flinch reaction of blinking before you fire). Placing your weight forward, on your left foot (for right handed shooters), helps position your body weight forward so that the rifle recoils straight back to avoid the barrel coming up too high after the shot. This helps you recover from the recoil fast enough to get a second shot away as quickly as possible.
Hope this helps.

Shooting on the bench with 375 and below, I do not hold the forearm. Even on my 416 Rem i sometimes do not hold the forearm, just let it rest on the bag or front rest. On 458 WM, Lott and 470, I have a firm grip on the forearm. Seems to help me!
I also fold a hand towel (poor mans PAST pad) to place between my shoulder and the stock on the big guns.
I might add that I am in a upright position on a bench and not leaning into the rifle.

EZ

it does not matter how you hold my 458win mag it's not going to be a pleasant thing after the first few shots on the range. it hurts no matter what and I did not think i was recoil sensitive till I bought it. I will be adding mercury tube and new recoil pad for it asap

+1; I had a 8 lb 458WM and WOW! I added weight in the forearm and a mercury reducer to the butt stock, new Pachmer decelerator a then a scope and rings that added another 13-15 oz. Now it is almost 10 lbs and MUCH better to deal with.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
it does not matter how you hold my 458win mag it's not going to be a pleasant thing after the first few shots on the range. it hurts no matter what and I did not think i was recoil sensitive till I bought it. I will be adding mercury tube and new recoil pad for it asap

My advice on handling recoil . . . shoot often.

My first boomer was a 458Lott. My ph told me it will kick the snot out of you. If you shoot it this way, it won't...
I have shot all the big doubles from 600, 577, 500, 470, 450#2, 450 3.25", and a 4 bore single shot.
I hold the rifles with crushing hand grips. Secondly the butt is against the shoulder firmly , like a firm handshake. Thirdly, Both hands are pushing towards each other like doing isometric exercises and forearms and biceps tensed up. When rifle recoils arms work as first recoil dampeners them shoulder takes the rest of the recoil. Rifle will rise at muzzle around 4 to 6 inches and come right back to plane...
I do this unconsciously when shooting my 450#2 and one must just used to shooting this way.
It does work.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Manyathelo:
Can you guys that shoot the big guns share some of your knowledge with us?

I see it as being no different than executing a well aimed shot, including follow ups, with most any rifle designed for service in the field. The basics run throughout whereas you are always better served as a rifleman if you learn to develop shooting positions that use your natural structure and bone support while keeping your mass behind the rifle with a solid spot or cheek weld. A hard shooter using good form when shooting from various positions will better recover from recoil, like a spring, back into the following shot. Persons using poor form can get away with tons of slop in their position with lighter calibers and still recover from recoil and still post fair accuracy. But, when you move up into the bigger calibers, the poor form will rear its ugly head and the shooter’s position will break down from the recoil giving the rifle a running start. You will not get away with muscling a big bore to try and overcome such poor form. This is why and how you can see small young girls, such as Fern, who could manage light weight high recoiling big bore rifles with outstanding marksmanship skills while hunting huge brown bears with her professional guide father. This is why some huge burly men that weighed three times more than Fern yet would bruise their shoulder, bust their knuckle, and punch their eye while shooting the same big bores with abysmal accuracy. It’s not about size and muscle, it’s about proper form and technique when shooting any rifle.

When speaking in terms of general field marksmanship of the average hunter, not every hunter can shoot like a Marine. But every Marine can shoot, because every Marine is a rifleman and was taught a solid foundation in rifle marksmanship. Take this scenereo of the average hunter, and now give them all big bores. Many who got by or just got by before would problably completely come apart with the bigger recoil. Learn to shoot the smaller rifles well in the field to include multiple positions and to include follow-ups, and those skills in executing proper form will carry over to bigger recoil rifles where you can continue to progress and fine tune. Next thing you know, you can shoot as well as a little girl who could outshoot most grown men.

Food for thought,
Best

MJines,
I was shooting often then my neck started developing nerve trauma so had to slow down but I still shot everything else I own as often as possible

Recoil is an acquired taste, start slowly, build up and endulge regularly. As for shooting other weapons, that seems to come naturally and most of us get to do far less shooting than we would really prefer. Also best to shoot at a variety of game.

This is my advice, FWIW. This is not the be-all end-all of such advice, and others may do things differently and achieve the same or better results.

Recoil is certainly subjective to a degree, but in an absolute sense it is the result of physical forces and can be intelligently managed.

I have learned some of this stuff from fellow big bore shooters, including many here on AR, who regularly post on the Big Bores forum, and some I have learned on my own from hard experience.

First, you want a rifle that is not too light for caliber, with a stock that has been properly conceived and built for a hard-kicking big bore rifle.

If your rifle hurts you, then it hasn’t been well-designed or properly built.

Most of the work should go into stock design. A good stock should include the following features:

1. A straight butt stock, with minimal drop at comb and heel, just enough to permit the bolt to be cycled freely.

2. A wide and rounded comb and a cheekpiece.

3. A deep and wide butt profile.

4. An effective recoil pad, such as a Decelerator.

5. Enough length of pull to keep your head upright and your nose away from the thumb of your dominant hand - IMHO, about a quarter to a half inch more than your standard LOP.

These stock features will make the rifle recoil straight back into the shoulder pocket, where your body weight can be brought to bear, will spread the recoil over a wider area of the shoulder, will soften the recoil force, and will also protect the face.

Further to the above, on a real hard kicker, I also like a mercury tube (or even a couple of them) in the butt stock. In my experience, these tubes really do a good job of attenuating the recoil force.

Last but not least, the rifle should have a heavy contoured barrel, so that it will balance, swing and hang properly, and reduce muzzle flip.

-------------------------------------------

And this would be my advice on how to shoot the rifle. Again, much of this I have learned here and elsewhere from fellow big bore shooters. The rest from hard experience.

Others may use different methods, but these work for me.

1. Get fairly square to the target, but not completely square. Lean forward into your rifle and toward what you are shooting at. DO NOT stand as a target shooter stands, perpendicular to the target and with a straight back!

2. Hold and grip the stock where it's checkered, deep in the palms of both of your hands, and with all of your fingers. Really hold on to that sucker!

3. Then make sure you keep the butt stock firmly pulled in, with both hands, and locked in the shoulder pocket.

4. Get a good hard cheek weld.

5. Then squeeze off your shot and roll with the recoil.

Cycle the bolt and be ready to do it again when the sights come back on target.

As someone once said, it takes time and practice, or practice and time, I'm not sure which, to do this well.

Good luck!

quote:

5. Then squeeze off your shot and roll with the recoil.

I think this is key. You're going to get moved. If you're braced, positioned and "ready to roll" then you can "deal" w/ the recoil. You're going to get hammered, but you shouldn't have to get hurt by it.

Big recoil off big guns is half the reason I shoot. I confess to being a bit of a "recoil junkie."

There are many facets to the ability to handle recoil. Most have been covered by the posters here. The most important is gun design. The recoil needs to come straight back and the gun should not rise on you. Your feet must be firmly planted and you flex your knees. Don't fight the recoil, let your body roll with it. Watch your cheek weld and teeth. Keep your mouth clenched and make sure you have a very firm grip on the gun such thst your hand doesn't slip on recoil.Get a good sight picture and squeeze the trigger after taking a breath and exhaling 1/3 of it. Shoot as soon as you have an adequate sight picture. Use your arms like pistons to absorb the recoil as much as possible. Develop as much upper arm
Strength as possible. Finally get someone who knows how to shoot a hard recouping gun to watch you and critique your style. That might be the most important advice. You were not born with this skill, you need to learn it. If you shoot enough you will eventually figure it out or you'll get hurt and give up-Rob

Another aspect of recoil is cartridge design. There are 375s and there are 375s, and so on.
The Lbs of push or recoil seen by the shooter is perceived as a result of the pressure curve.
Some cartridges produce velocity X with bullet weight Y and hve a pressure curve that rises smoothly an decends the same way. Sometimes with the same X and Y, the pressure curve rises more sharply (goes from 0 to peak in fewer miliseconds) and the result will be much more felt recoil.

quote:

There's a guy at the trap club w/ a Browning XT all set up with a spring loaded shock pad, large gun, heavy, shooting TRAP LOADS.

Recoil is a personal thing, and is cumulative. I've shot in Trap competitions that were 500 target events shot in one day. The margin of error in winning these events is often as little as one target. Reduced recoil also helps the shooter get on a second target quicker and more accurately.

I had both my Trap and Skeet competition guns ported and put mechanical/mercury recoil reducers in their stocks. I also put a reducer in one of my hunting shotguns, and put reducers in and muzzle brakes on my .300 Wby and .375 RUM. I like to shoot, I don't like to be kicked in the head and shoulder every time I pull the trigger.

This is how you handle recoil--- You just let go of the gun!

I recommend a slurry of calf's liver, Viagra, testosterone, ibuprofin and really good gin, shaken, not stirred.

Shootaway has his secret and soon to be Patented "shooting Helmet" fully equipped with his ingenious "THREE POINT" wood screw to walnut stock attachment system to insure your "head never comes off the stock". The cornithian leather padding he uses assures proper sight alignment every time too, minimizes catastrophic scope cuts and assures minimal Brain Damage occurs even with the Biggest Bruisers! This most ingenious shooting helmet allows for a true "HEADS-UP DISPLAY" using your neck mussels to provide instinctive alignment with the target. If your one of the Thousands who are " Recoil Challenged" then the Shootaway Helmet is for YOU!
For a limited time, you can order not one but TWO "shootaway Helmets" in sizes S,M,L and "SWELLED" In right or left hand for our introductory price of $9.95. Yes thats $9.95. We can only make this offer here on AR so don't continue to be "RECOIL CHALLENGED", join the hundreds here who USE this device so that they can handle the recoil! Hurry and Get your AR authorized SHOOTAWAY HELMET before they are all gone! Once you use this HELMET you'll never want to shoot a big bore again without one! BE the envy of everyone at the RANGE! WOW the PH's in AFRICA! Please send all checks to me -Rob

What works for me it to have the stock Fit you
like a glove.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway has his secret and soon to be Patented "shooting Helmet" fully equipped with his ingenious "THREE POINT" wood screw to walnut stock attachment system to insure your "head never comes off the stock". The cornithian leather padding he uses assures proper sight alignment every time too, minimizes catastrophic scope cuts and assures minimal Brain Damage occurs even with the Biggest Bruisers! This most ingenious shooting helmet allows for a true "HEADS-UP DISPLAY" using your neck mussels to provide instinctive alignment with the target. If your one of the Thousands who are " Recoil Challenged" then the Shootaway Helmet is for YOU!
For a limited time, you can order not one but TWO "shootaway Helmets" in sizes S,M,L and "SWELLED" In right or left hand for our introductory price of $9.95. Yes thats $9.95. We can only make this offer here on AR so don't continue to be "RECOIL CHALLENGED", join the hundreds here who USE this device so that they can handle the recoil! Hurry and Get your AR authorized SHOOTAWAY HELMET before they are all gone! Once you use this HELMET you'll never want to shoot a big bore again without one! BE the envy of everyone at the RANGE! WOW the PH's in AFRICA! Please send all checks to me -Rob

Rob
to be fair, george handles a 459 lott rsm VERY well .. and with a little coaching, didn't get scope bit anymore

My recoil secret is to load my rifle and hand it to Jeffeosso or Hogkiller to fire. I can take dozens of rounds that way in a single session.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
This is how you handle recoil--- You just let go of the gun!

There is so much wrong with that whole thing, that I don't know where to start!

God, what awful form!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway has his secret and soon to be Patented "shooting Helmet" fully equipped with his ingenious "THREE POINT" wood screw to walnut stock attachment system to insure your "head never comes off the stock". The cornithian leather padding he uses assures proper sight alignment every time too, minimizes catastrophic scope cuts and assures minimal Brain Damage occurs even with the Biggest Bruisers! This most ingenious shooting helmet allows for a true "HEADS-UP DISPLAY" using your neck mussels to provide instinctive alignment with the target. If your one of the Thousands who are " Recoil Challenged" then the Shootaway Helmet is for YOU!
For a limited time, you can order not one but TWO "shootaway Helmets" in sizes S,M,L and "SWELLED" In right or left hand for our introductory price of $9.95. Yes thats $9.95. We can only make this offer here on AR so don't continue to be "RECOIL CHALLENGED", join the hundreds here who USE this device so that they can handle the recoil! Hurry and Get your AR authorized SHOOTAWAY HELMET before they are all gone! Once you use this HELMET you'll never want to shoot a big bore again without one! BE the envy of everyone at the RANGE! WOW the PH's in AFRICA! Please send all checks to me -Rob

Hah! A recoil helmet!

My check is written and signed.

Just need to know where to send it!

Guys- TRy to remember shooting Big Bores is FUN! Just a little Humor goes along way!It took me a 1/2 hr to think that one up! I'm sure SHootaway enjoyed it too.-Rob

Rob,
Great!

Are you going to offer a QD model, or maybe a six-pack holder or cooler on the offhand side of the helmet to act as a recoil reducer and counter balancer?
Maybe a QD-ambidextrous one with interchangeable rifle and beer mounts?

There is the DELUX helmet that we sell as an accessory that has a 1"hose mount that blows cool air through the helmet via a hair dryer outlet connection to a Beer cooler/ice chest. The perfect thing for those "EXTENDED" shooting sessions! Keep it on the Bench is a handy position!-Rob

I just bought a "Lead Sled"; will see how it helps me. I am tired of getting beaten up by 9.3x74R, 405 Win., and 375 H&H at the range.

Once you get a boomer sighted in, GETCHER A$$ OFF THE BENCH!!! If you shoot from sticks, keep the number of rounds you shoot each trip to around five and hold on tight a DGR isn't hard to live with. When you're on game, you should only need a shot or two. Should you need more than five you will so "change of underwear" scared you won't notice the recoil anyway.

Mike Robinson (and others) gives some excellent advice I agree with whole-heartedly.

I'd just emphisize gripping the fore end tightly. That is, wrapping your fingers over it rather than just pinching.

Secondly, Mike mentioned leaning into the gun. Have your weight on the foreward foot.

Pull with the forward arm and push with the rear.

Use double hearing protection. A good bit of flinch is just your natural reaction to sharp/painful noise.

Take a light gun such as a 22 to alternate with at the range. Also, occasionally shoot a friend's heavier gun. It really is relative. Put 20 rounds through a light Lott from the bench and a 375 prone is like a bb gun.

Get rid of the bench. Sticks or a standing rest make a world of difference, with extremely little loss in hunting accuracy. You can load test and sight in from sticks just as well as from the bench with minimal practice and much less abuse.

Lastly, convince yourself that the recoil won't hurt, and it WILL happen whether your flinch or follow through properly, so you may as well do it right the first time. I tell myself this before each and every shot with a heavy.

When hunting, none of this will matter. The one and only time I've been charged by a bear the first thought in my mind after watching him sumersault was that I hadn't heard the gun go off, much less noticed any recoil. I was working the bolt and telling my wife, "the gun didn't make any noise!"

Bob

Build up your chest muscles and place the butt more on your chest muscle than in your shoulder pocket. I've always heard to put the stock in your shoulder pocket, but when I got to a .338 it started to hurt. I started trying different techniques to stop the pain. as soon as I moved the butt stock slightly over into the chest muscle, the recoil became a lot less painful. Think of it as your natural recoil pad.

This technique is not the solve all, but it definately makes a difference. Try moving the butt out of your shoulder pocket slightly into your chest and then practice.
People can tell you many techniques, but it just takes practice and you will find your own feeling for the best fit for that rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway has his secret and soon to be Patented "shooting Helmet" fully equipped with his ingenious "THREE POINT" wood screw to walnut stock attachment system to insure your "head never comes off the stock". The cornithian leather padding he uses assures proper sight alignment every time too, minimizes catastrophic scope cuts and assures minimal Brain Damage occurs even with the Biggest Bruisers! This most ingenious shooting helmet allows for a true "HEADS-UP DISPLAY" using your neck mussels to provide instinctive alignment with the target. If your one of the Thousands who are " Recoil Challenged" then the Shootaway Helmet is for YOU!
For a limited time, you can order not one but TWO "shootaway Helmets" in sizes S,M,L and "SWELLED" In right or left hand for our introductory price of $9.95. Yes thats $9.95. We can only make this offer here on AR so don't continue to be "RECOIL CHALLENGED", join the hundreds here who USE this device so that they can handle the recoil! Hurry and Get your AR authorized SHOOTAWAY HELMET before they are all gone! Once you use this HELMET you'll never want to shoot a big bore again without one! BE the envy of everyone at the RANGE! WOW the PH's in AFRICA! Please send all checks to me -Rob

Rod your brain mussel is working overetime. That was funny!!!
JD

quote:

1. Get fairly square to the target, but not completely square. Lean forward into your rifle and toward what you are shooting at. DO NOT stand as a target shooter stands, perpendicular to the target and with a straight back!

This is very good advice.
Just a couple weeks ago my brother and I went to a big bore shoot. We both shot some heavies - my 425 Westley, 360No.2 double, 500/450 Westley and Robert Hughes Farq (all steel buttplates BTW) and I finished with a Wilkes 470 double - great fun!!
Next day, my shoulder was a little yellowish, but not too sore but my brother's was PURPLE halfway down his bicep! Obviously he was too sideways to the targets and the pictures showed this clearly. Afraid he might be pussified about the heavy recoiling rifles now...

quote:

There is so much wrong with that whole thing, that I don't know where to start!

God, what awful form!

[/QUOTE]

Mike, I must disagree. Observe that both hands have released the gun simultaneously, but are perfectly positioned to catch it as it falls back down from recoil. The shooting hand thumb is completely out of the way, so as not to interfere with the gun's natural trajectory. The strap-on recoil pad is properly tightened and adjusted so as to force the body into what would otherwise be considered an awkward and painful forward/sideways twist, which removes the entire body weight from the path of the gun's recoil, allowing the weapon to fly unencumbered. Even the hat has apparently been carefully shaped to avoid contact with the flying weapon. I'll bet that if the camera zoomed back a bit (nice action shot, by the way!) it would reveal the guncase properly positioned to receive the rifle upon re-entry.

This was definitely not this guy's first rodeo.

John

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:


This was definitely not this guy's first rodeo.

John

Old habits are hard to shake. He is a 3 tour Vietnam vet you know.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
Mike, I must disagree. Observe that both hands have released the gun simultaneously, but are perfectly positioned to catch it as it falls back down from recoil. The shooting hand thumb is completely out of the way, so as not to interfere with the gun's natural trajectory. The strap-on recoil pad is properly tightened and adjusted so as to force the body into what would otherwise be considered an awkward and painful forward/sideways twist, which removes the entire body weight from the path of the gun's recoil, allowing the weapon to fly unencumbered. Even the hat has apparently been carefully shaped to avoid contact with the flying weapon. I'll bet that if the camera zoomed back a bit (nice action shot, by the way!) it would reveal the guncase properly positioned to receive the rifle upon re-entry.

This was definitely not this guy's first rodeo.

John

John, I must confess that I missed the brilliance of form exemplified in this forward/sideways twist, "release and catch," and unencumbered flight of the flipping and falling firearm style of big bore shooting.

It's now so obvious to me.

Although, in fairness, I do think that a re-entry photo might have been helpful. I wonder if the atmospheric friction burned the stock?

But no excuses.

Far be it from me to suggest that I cannot benefit from so learned an exegesis.

Henceforth, I am going to view Saeed's .577 Tyrannosaur "Champions" videos with a more educated eye.