ok everything i read says the 416 remington can match the ballistics of the rigby, the only thing i dont understand is how can that be when the rigby has almost the same case capacity as the 416 weatherby?

The 416 Rem. is near to the 416 Rigby in factory loads, but not close for the reloader. The Rigby is a much older cartridge that started out using low pressure loads,much like a 45-70. Factory 45-70 loads are far from what the reloader can do. How is the Ruger 416 Taylor going? Let me know if you are interested in trading it for my CZ 416 Rigby,I still am interested in the Taylor.

Get a copy of the newest Barnes reloading manual and check out the rigby data....WOW! I still keep my 400grainers around 2400fps though, the recoil is not so bad for me then.

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
Get a copy of the newest Barnes reloading manual and check out the rigby data....WOW! I still keep my 400grainers around 2400fps though, the recoil is not so bad for me then.

It is true that the Rigby can be loaded to far outclass the .416 Remington. Yet it seems to me that the Rigby made its' reputation on dangerous game with a 400 grain bullet at 2300 FPS or so, and still works quite satisfactorily with that weight bullet at that speed.

factory load to factory load, the rem and rigby are loaded to the same velocity... the rem with much more pressure

yes, the rigby and weatherby are very close... in fact, the story goes
416 rigby...
roy weatherby adds a belt, improves, and necks to 458
ed weatherby then necks to 416 and 378

and then "john rigby and company" takes the belt off and necks to 450 for the rigby

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
factory load to factory load, the rem and rigby are loaded to the same velocity... the rem with much more pressure

yes, the rigby and weatherby are very close... in fact, the story goes
416 rigby...
roy weatherby adds a belt, improves, and necks to 458
ed weatherby then necks to 416 and 378

and then "john rigby and company" takes the belt off and necks to 450 for the rigby

jeffe

Jeffe
If you are talking sequence, you need to recheck the refernces you used as they are bad. Roy made the .378 long before the .460. Ed may have done the .416, but long after the other two. If you are just talking about flopping the same basic case around differnt ways, then it will pass "muster." Not trying to be arguementive, but the young people that weren't around back then might pass on bad info to their offspring!

thanks.. i thought the 460 was first... revise and edit to 378..

thanks

really hot 416 Rem = 2400 fps

very mild 416 rigby = 2400 fps

really hot 416 rigby = 2750 fps

grains...

what is the optimal impact velocity of the 416's???

sooooooo 450 gr 416s @ 2600 in a hotrod rigby???

I know a man who loads his .416 Remington to average 2465 fps MV with the 400 grain TSX and 80.0 grains of RL-15.

It is very accurate and seemed fine until the 4th firing, when incipient case head separation rings appear on all the brass.

On the fifth reload and firing the case heads separate.

.416 Rigby brass with that same velocity and same bullet would last "forever."

Just like my 500 Jeffery.

Actually the original 416 Rigby load was a 410gr bullet to 2350 fps. I loaded mine for africa with 400gr Swifts and old style Hornady 410 solids to 2400 fps but I can easily go much higher without pressure signs. The 416 Remington is a more practical cartridge. They did have some pressure problems initially but those have ong been ironed out. The Rigby's long action calls for a heavy rifle and if you're going to carry around all that weight,might as well go with one of the 45s. The 416 Rem is a fine choice. jorge

Jeffe,

a bit of origin data. In the mid-fifties noted barrel maker John Buhmiller was in the habit of plowing most of the profits from his business into hunting Africa...a truly noble thing. He made friends at Bisley shooting long distance, who farmed pre-black majority Africa. He would build rifles and go test them there. His story was that he wanted a "modern" 45 caliber boltgun, and was exposed to the 378 Wby case. He told me he expanded the case to 458 caliber.
This was in 1957 I believe when he got into elephant control along the Rift wall. He also took Norma 300 Magnum brass (cylindrical fl)and
necked it up to 458 as well, creating what he dubbed the 450 Magnum and the .378-45 He also necked the 300 Norma case slightly to create what he called the 470 Magnum. All of this is documented in an article he wrote for Handloader magazine. Issue #1, May-June of 1966. I spoke with him at his shop in Kalispell the next summer. Took a nickel tour of his shop, Elmer Keiths' place, and PO Ackleys' shop in five weeks. Talk about a heady experience for a just out of high school17-year old. My "bigbore" was a 25 Krag, and Buhmiller tuned the trigger for me.

regards,

Rich

John B's work with the .378 necked up to 458 predates Roy W's .460 Weatherby and the Mk V action.
I first read about John B's work on it in the first Ackley manuel I ever saw from him. John wrote the article, but darned if I can find the book. It predated the Handloader rag and the ackley vol I & II books.
If anybody has a copy of that old Ackley book or the Handloader issue Idaho S. refers to, it sure would be nice to re-read them.
I am thinking that John also necked the .378 on up to .50, but I am strictly on memory here and could be wrong.
I have no recollection of John B's comments on bullets he used. I know the 1956 Shooters Bible lists the Hornady .375 300 grain soft, but no mention of a solid. No Hornady .458 dia. shown either. However, 1957 Gun Digest lists the .378 wea. rifles and Roy W. was promoting Hornady's in his rifles at that time. With the .458 Win. coming out in '56, Hornady would have had to have gotten into the good steel jacket bullet business about that time. I now longer have any books from '58, '59 or '60. The .460 Wea. is in the '61 "Digest". I sspect John B. used Barnes at the start, but that is just a guess.
Agasin if anybody has those articles, it sure would be nice to re-read John B's experiences.

Seems like there was a Buhmiller article in a Gun's Digest or Shooter's Bible quite a while ago. I found it in a library somewhere but can't remember the details.

I do remember that he made his own solids and just like so many of us here, found out through empirical testing that flat noses are to be desired!

Wish I could remember where that article was and sorry for the digression from the .416 Rigby question...

PWS,
you are correct sir, Buhmiller worked with the 378-45 necked up a little farther, to use, in his word "...the 570-grain .510" diameter bullet that is made for the .500 Nitro Express double rifle...". He also made what is basically the 470 Capstick by necking slightly, the cylindrical Norma Magnum Brass to take the Kynoch 470 Nitro Express bullet. The five page article in Handloader #1 is a fascinating short study into Buhmillers' African experience.

regards,

Rich