The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Win mod. 95 in 405 Win. for DGGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Ive had a few Win mod. 95s and I love the 405 cal and now they are available, but the one flaw that has stood in the way for me as a DG combo is and cannot be denied is the slow, complicated reloading process when the gun goes empty..One has to push the round straight down and the forward and this operation is slow and awkward plus at best, and its bothersome to me, so much so that I only hunted deer with the 95s and I loved the carbine mod 95s. What say you 95ers... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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Ray, You must learn to reload your 1895 while trotting after your guide who is following up on a wounded Nilgai that you shot in the hump and not the ribs! Seriously. Stop complaining and go practice. Besides, if you hit most any game with one 300 grain .405 bullet, you will have time to reload! Are you a DG sissy? I have taken two big bad buffs with my 1895 .405, so I know you can do it. One of mine was a one shot kill and the other took two shots to keep it from walking off and dying in the brush - even they cannot walk with a broken pelvis! BTW, is it not down with the rear of the case and then backward ? You doing it backward? NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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"EVEN THEY CAN'T WALK WITH A BROKEN PELVIS" A Texas Heart Shot gone aria? Hip | |||
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Hipshoot, Been known to use the Texas Heart Shot when it was only option, but my first shot went in behind the left rear rib ,through the heat, and out between the front legs, but the buff needed to be broken down to avoid pursuing it into heavy cover. I had already figured the pelvis was my only chance for a rear stopping shot. The 400 grain Woodie did the job. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Well it worked----that is what's important! GOOD JOB!!!  Hip | |||
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I may be a buffalo sissie, but only in the high grass, and I have killed buffalo with 30-06, 7x57, and 338 win. on the light side, stunts...but they worked. I have been charged 2.5 times sorta...and my take with the 95 is I don't believe anyone can load one fast fast, such would more likely be the case with a bear in Alaska or Lion in Africa...Now understand Im just surmising If anyone wants to take me DG hunting with a 95 I would appreciate it very much and jump on the opportunity.. I know how to load the gun, mine came with directions and I do find it Awkard. posted mostly for opinnions as to the directions. and interested in the responses, if I screwed up in reality my PH would clean up the mess, as would yours..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, My 1895 .405 holds four 400 grain loads in the mag and one in the chamber for a total of 5 shots without reloading. Maybe the best practice would be to hunt only with a PH that can take over after you have fired all 5 rounds. Or hunt with a DR or single shot that is simple to reload. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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My pal in Namibia has one with British proofs. So many grains of cordite/ 300 grn bullet marked on it. I wish I knew the history behind the rifle. I have used it to shoot warthogs on his farm. Fun just going for a hike in the bush with it. I am one that feels an old gun has a ghost that goes with it. I wanted the ghost to get out again too. | |||
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I might add that I have a film made by a group of my hunters I booked for Africa, they shot 500 NE, 470 and 577s. shows one buffalo taking 15 shots and another takeing 13 as I recall..the first broke down at the 7th shot the other at shot no. 4 but still had fight in both, they just sorta kept dragging their rear end around in a circle taking what appeared to be some shoulder shots, gruesome..but its all they talked about for weeks on end, they lived in Boise. I recall another buff that took two shots in the lungs and lived until killed late the next day..and my last experience was the largest bull I ever killed, had three lung partitions as one lung had healed completely but formed two lungs, with a scar, and had a large expanded bullet encased in a golf ball size callus against the hide..the bull was fat and shiny, and fully recovered.then Richard and I double shot a bull in the chest and our bullets criss crossed each other in the bulls chest, and that bull live to go about 5 miles Im told from where we shot him before he died or the lions killed him as he was eaten..Pierre and Saeed found him the following day and brought the head in and I gave the head to Richard to mount.. just a reminder that no matter how many bulls you kill, you will probably come across one or two that upset the apple cart, and its not a bad idea to be at least aware, has nothing to do with fear, but sometimes 5 shots is not enough, but I know many folks that have never had an incident of any kind, I believe I recall Saeed saying he has ever been charged by a buffalo and Im thinking his kills number about 300, so it can work either way...a roll of the dice. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Zarvich thought enough of the Winchester to order hundreds of thousands of them for his fathers army, using 762 -54 with a bayonet lug installed. I can under stand your reluctance to go adventuring with the Mod 95 and five rounds in the magazine if you remember old John Cotter got killed by a rhino after emptying his model 95's mag. A suggestion take a son, son-in-law, grandson with a 458 Win mag as back up and enjoy the hunt. I've got three model 95s #1 is a 405 #2 is a 375 Whelen and #3 is a 30-06. I've set all three up all three for hard cast bulets. The front sights from the fctory are awful As I find them I'm installing Redfield receiver sights and replacing the front sight blades with a larger gold bead. I've found all my sights on Ebay. Have un. "Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson | |||
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My 500 Jeffery only holds 3 rounds. I've never thought of it as a limitation. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Practice, Practice, Paractice and timing of the reload. A) What's it going to take an extra second per round. B) If you are trying to reload in the middle of a charge you are pretty screwed anyway. Granted a double is fatser, but if you are counting on 1 or 2 seconds of difference to "save your ass", I would come up with a different plan. C) Practice walking and reloading with out looking down. Just like LEOs and Military personnel do - you practing accessing spare ammunition and reloading without taking your eyes off the threat and while on the move. As the saying goes you should be either shooting, reloading, and/or moving. Otherwise, someone (or something) is gonna come along and put your head on a post. Seriously, the likelihood that you are going go thru all 5 rounds and not have a chance to top off is pretty remote. The trick is learning to and constantly practicing topping off. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well Ill be darn! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Charles Cottar. He was killed by a rhino, but remember. Old Charles had, had a stroke, was blind in one eye and partially paralyzed. He was filming a rhino charge, and obviously waited to long before trying to shoot. He thought his 32 spcl win 94 with solids was a fine rhino gun for many years. | |||
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What crshelton and Mike_D. said. It was my first and still my ever fave rifle - I have three.... On my Namibia safari I emptied it on an oryx. Running up to it I reloaded (yes we ran). When we came up to it I finished it and the PH wandered when I reloaded. "As we ran", I replied. The look on his face....  Awkward/slow reloading, my ass. - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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Lars, Thank you for your experienced comments. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Thanks for the interesting comments! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Interesting subject. On a slight tangent some part of me always wanted to take a 444 Marginal I mean Marlin on very large game. Slightly ashamed to come out of the closet with that...though with hot loads its similar to 405 win and if folks can do it with a 454 casull handgun, why not. | |||
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My bottom line is Id challange all comments that they could load a magazine full with a 95 as fast as I can a Mauser...bet beers or dollars! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have an opportunity to get a pair of 1895s, one, an old slab sided 30-40 Krag and a newer 405 win take down. I agree that 400@ 2050 is enough for me for hippo to buff. Is there any mods to get a bit longer OAL in the 1895 to function reliably? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Please excuse my ignorance, as I have never had an opportunity to fire a '95 (they are pretty scarce here), but can't one sinlge-load them by chucking a round in the chamber if you do run the mag dry? | |||
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Depends on which way your running! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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https://youtu.be/Hk9U8Q5xz0U Single load 5 with a stripper clip At you referring to having a full magazine, firing one and then topping it off? Or perhaps just loading one at a time with an empty magazine?
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Boomstick, The Win 1895 .405 chamber can be extended to get the full potential of the cartridge case with Woodleigh 400 grain bullets crimped on the cannelure. Some years ago I read about this on a post from a hunter who had it done for an African hunt and then I had it done for my 1895 .405. Load the dummy round (no primer or powder)with .400 grain Woodie crimped at the cannelure and take that and your 1895 to the gunsmith with instructions to extend the chamber so the dummy round has 25 thousandths clearance when in the chamber with the bolt closed. That is all there is to it as there is room in the magazine for the slightly longer cartridge. The space for additional powder will raise MV slightly too. Enjoy! NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Thanks! I will keep you posted.
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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It is my understanding that the only '95s that were set up for stripper-clip loading were the 7.62x 54R rifles for the Russian contracts, is that incorrect? The way I read the opening post, the concern was that one would be effectively unable to apply further follow-up shots if a .405 (specifically) '95's magazine had been emptied due to the difficulty of re-filling the magazine, and I am asking whether it is necessary to re-fill the magazine, or whether one could single-load cartridges directly into the chamber. | |||
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Peter, Ray was just in a bitching mood and needed to fuss about something. Yes, the 1895 .405 can be single loaded into the chamber! Yes, the 1895 .405 can be topped off on a partially empty magazine. One further point -- one bullet is usually all that it needed with a .405, but when hunting DG, I usually load the chamber over a full magazine. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Kenneth Anderson who hunted maneater tigers and leopards in the southern states of India used a 95 in 405 Winchester. I recall somewhere in one of his books that he said he did not risk topping up the magazine on his 95 while he still had a round in the chamber as he found the gun would often fail to feed after firing the chambered round. I am away from home at the moment to check the book so can't confirm exact details. I assume this fault was with his gun and not peculiar to the 95's in general. | |||
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Thanks CR. I was actually replying to Boomstick here rather than Ray. Not that it matters. Thanks for confirming that the '95 can be single-loaded. Indeed I agree that when going after DG, one loads the magazine to capacity. My grandfather had a '98 Mauser in .404 Jefferey which could take five in the mag. He always loaded one in the chamber, then turned it over and filled the magazine through the floor-plate so that he could have 6 rounds available. On the measly 5 occasions I had the opportunity to hunt buffalo (usually with that same rifle) I did exactly the same yet never fired more than the one round. I'm guessing your 405 with 400gr Woodleighs is very similar to the .404's factory loading. Strangely though (and perhaps I am stupid), if I ever get the opportunity to build myself a DG rifle, it will be a falling-block single-shot, in either 450/400 or .450 3 1/4... | |||
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I have no experience shooting the 405, but it's interesting how this thread connects for me. Way back in the early 60's I sold my 4H pigs and was allowed to by my first rifle. I went into Sheaffer Bros in Carlisle with my Dad. I was eyeing a Model 95 in 405. They wanted $43.95 for it. I had Africa in my mind at the ripe old age of 13. Irv (husband of the Sheaffer sister) let me handle it. There were military surplus cans of Hoppes #9 on the counter behind me. There was a full mount of a standing grizzly to my left and a full mount of a hammerhead shark on the shelf above me. The aroma of Hoppes and gun oil filled my head. The gun had some wear, a bit of patina we would say now. I could barely heft it to my shoulder, and I doubt the barrel ever leveled in any place but my mind. Oh, what I could do with this rifle! Irv and Dad smiled. I handed the rifle back to Irv. He put it back on the rack. He gave me a pat on my shoulder. I was only 4' 2" at the time and didnt weigh a hundred pounds. He took down a Model 94 in 32 Special, the price was $54.95. I could reach the trigger and balance that one. I walked out of the store with the 32 and a box of shells. A lot of rifles have come and gone including that 32. There is still a WWII era 32 and the box and a couple of the original brass with me, but never a 405. If I had only known then that I had a hippo rifle. Thanks for the thread. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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As with any firearm practice is the key. Far to many firearms user do not practice to make the most out of their firearms. In some deal I ended up with 2 5 round striper clips of dummy 30-06. They dated from 1918. I wore them out practicing loading and working a bolt gun. The bullets would no longer stay into the cases ect. They were cycled through the action many hundred of times each. Good practice is the key. Slow for perfect speed will come later. | |||
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It was a boring day, so I thought I just stir up some conversation, and apparently I have!! Never pick on a mod 95, 86, 94, or any Winchester is the real story behind this whole thingie~~ Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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