A good read....thanks for posting

Do you have "Part I"?

No, sorry.
I came accross this while trying to figure out if there is a dimensional diff between the 500 A2 and the 500 Buhmiller.

Thought it was interesting enough to post.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:
A good read....thanks for posting
Do you have "Part I"?

Found it .
http://www.the-gun.com/pdfs_articles/big_bore_one.pdf

Link to other pages from same sight
http://www.the-gun.com/articlesinterest.php

Paz

thanks for the sleuthing

Paz.....thanks

Way cool read!

Supposedly jack "Invented" the 458 Lott in 71 and here has a 458 Win in the Jan 72 issue.
Interesting. When was Jacks buff stomping run in?
Here he talks about the 458 Watts and Ackley.

read part one, September 18th, 1959. Wally Johnson was his PH.

I remember reading these two articles. I was just out of the army. Cape Buffalo: "...they look at you as if you owe them money...". This one just about collected that bill.

Rich

He did note that the stopping power and the short length of the 577 NE is where the advantage ends.

So a short barreled 577 bolt is the best of both worlds I guess

I wonder what jack would say about the 600 OK and the 577 variety of bolt action carts.

Interesting read. thank you!

Great read, thanks for posting!

Allen

He makes a good point on the bolt moving to much to the side as you work it and how an action needs to have tighter tolerances to prevent this.I think he also knows what he is talking about when he writes about a recoil pad needing to be tight or firm.I didn't know that there are issues with the type of magazine hatch release that is inside of the trigger guard.I am glad that my Ruger does well in all these and other areas he mentioned.Judging from what he writes,I would think that he spend more of his time hunting and thinking about improving a cartridge than he did shooting big bores.The reason being,that he does not mention the most important action one should take and that is useing loctite on his guardscrews and open sight screws-unless he did most of his shooting useing a scope and shooting a close distances were even a broken rifle will shoot.

DG rifles are for close up work. The game is not Dangerous until it closes within fifty feet of you.

Rich

What struck me about this article is how much some things have changed and how much others have stayed the same.

Precise shot placement is of first importance and if things go wrong you want all the stopping power you can handle in a reliable firearm. Nothing changed in that message

Changes include the availability of so many guns and cartridges today. We can buy 505, 458xyz, 416 dejour, 404, 375 by so many more makers. Ok some by CZ only, but there are far more choices than in the bad old days of the 70's. And the availability of new doubles.

Now today, there seems a mantra doubles are better. Not according to Lott, I found his preference for 5/6 shot bolt very convincing.

I like hunting with a 20ga double shot gun - tradition and effective. If I had no bag limit and was payed a $100 bounty on each bird and bunny - for business, I would carry my 12ga pump.

Finally and on this, I am not so sure, but it seems there was better and more thoughtful writing in the old days. I still get the American Rifleman (lifetime) and does not seem as good.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
. . . it seems there was better and more thoughtful writing in the old days. I still get the American Rifleman (lifetime) and does not seem as good.

I agree. Lott in particular was an engaging writer whose opinions were based on wide knowledge and experience.

I read everything with a very critical eye, and I was informed and entertained by these articles, and couldn't find anything to disagree with - bearing in mind that we have come a long way with rifles, big bore calibers and bullets since 1972.

Thanks for posting these articles, guys.

I was flicking through a few old magazines last night and in the nov 2001 500th special issue of G&A, there is a reprint of a 1971 article by Jacques P Lott whith the Wally Johnson,(4 x 458 + 7 x 375 Buff "kill"), and far from being an advocate of the 458 Lott (as it is now called), he was more enamoured of the 460G&A, ( a 458 on the 404 J case) designed by Tom Siatos. I believe it was because of the ability to use 458 Win Mag, which was comonly available everywhere, in the Lott chamber, that he championed the "Lott" rather than the 460G&A which saw the rise of one over the other.
As has been said the, writing was more pleasing to read than some of the drivel produced now which is why I no longer get any of the 6 or 7 mags that I used to. This and other forums has taken thier place.

Von Gruff.

WOW, a 378 necked up to 458 and putting 500gr bullets out at 2950fps. I guess a chrony wasn't common back then. Maybe I should try that load in my 460.

My favorite part was where he notes how much better the post-64 M70s are than the old ones. I had to read it about three times before that sunk in.

Rich

Some very interesting reading. The man certainly had the experience to back up his points, unlike some who write these days...

The read wouldn't come in clear

In the first part, which is the 2nd link, is a section titled "Failure of the rebated rim" or something to that effect. Recounts death and resignations of African wardens from jamming of rebated ctgs. Something about some blaming weak magazine springs when real underlying problem was the rebated rim.

Food for thought today, when designing new wildcat ctgs. As to what works and what is respected in the field.

Gun Rag Magazines are not what they used to be?

Or is it ourselves that are not what WE used to be?

Speaking for myself only I dote on the Old Time writers, Lott, Seyfried, and those guys, and my hero, Elmer! These were the guys to look up to when I was a kid, and my own experience was lacking, in fact nearly absent. Where things really that much different back in the day? Think about it, todays writers have more tech, more experience in many arenas, larger selection of rifles, cartridges, bullets, oh my god, the bullet tech alone has changed everything in shooting just in the last 10 years!

I get nearly every sorry ass gun rag there is, and it takes me about 1 maybe 2 minutes to thumb through them every month and toss them to the side! Almost zero, almost nothing of any interest in them for me these days! I mean my god how many times can you compare 30/06 to 300 Winchester, or 300 Winchester to 300 WSM or any number of stupid asinine waste of paper articles that come out these days? I remember the day when I could not wait for one of the new gun rags, Rifle, Handloader, favorites for many years, and in fact I think I have every single issue ever published in Rifle and Handloader magazines. Today, I still have not taken the plastic off of the November issue #247 of Rifle Magazine! All are relegated to a box under my desk as they come in the mail, to be gone through at a later date, when I am bored with everything else! Now is this their issue, or mine?

I think what has happened is that I have evolved far beyond the gun rags! I forget that there are far more new shooters, younger shooters, that have not been exposed, do not have my experiences, and have many years more to evolve, so the gun rags to them are still new, interesting, learning experiences, just like they were to me 30 + years ago! Many of us on this very forum have far exceeded what interests most gun rags put out these days! Many of us already know more than most who even write the articles! I remember the day when the written word in a gun rage was the rule of the day! Today I look at some of these and think where did they get this idiot from! When if some of us really looked at the truth of the matter most of todays gun writers have far more experience than many of our old heros had. They certainly have and are exposed to far greater shooting tech than could even be imagined 40-50 yrs ago. Probably better writers too! But I won't admit that! Hell I bet a vast majority of the readers today may not even know who Elmer Keith was?

No, I think it is many of us that have evolved beyond what the current gun rags can interest us in, as well it should be I think. It has just been one of those pet peeves of mine for several years about the articles in the gun rags, but I think one must think it through before throwing them completely out on their tails. Many of my subscriptions are years ahead, but many when they lapse they will remain that way, not because of the quality, but because of my own interests.

I still miss Jack Lott, Elmer, and many of the others, but I wonder if that is just something from my youth and what I grew up with?

Michael

as JA Hunter once said in a book about the pre-WWII crew, "...Them, they were giants". I think you are right, today we know so much more. It's due to the Internet, and sites like this, and to chronographs.
Take the current project I am involved with. Jeff at MRC, Wayne at AHR, and an assist to Fritz454; are working to get a PH action to Wayne to get a master stock pattern done, and a barrel (thanks Fritz) fit, chambered, and headspaced. Then it goes to PacNor and the contour is profiled. Wayne thinks in early March we will start with a 26" barrel. Chrono, cut two inches off, and chrono again. And again at 22, and then 20 inches. In a weekend, we will have actual numbers to share with you all here. This site, and the ability to communicate at the speed of electrons flowing will make that possible. I use me, only because I am involved. There are others here doing the same type of thing with other cartridges. I used to sign off with "knowledge not shared, is knowledge lost". It's true.

Rich
we rock!

Hey Idaho,

Your project would be a great magazine piece or series. Photos of each step. Data, experience gained. A nice promo for all the actors involved (hopefully). A plug for the wildcat round. A plug for the super big bores in general. Photo of the stock machine and other steps. The nice thing about a printed magazine is you eliminate all the noise. That is endless chatter and postings. The post(s) themselves drag on over such a long time and lost deep in the archives. Later the pictures if any go [RED X]. I bet you get a better gun out of it too. Like 4 down?

Interesting! A mention of the 460 Guns & Ammo! I have one in a safari rifle with a synthetic stock, built by Lex Webernick of Rifles Inc. I've had several hunting rifles from Lex, so when I ran across this one from a Doctor who was just returning from his last safari (6 Jumbo with this rifle!), I grabbed it. Full length 404 Jeff blown out to 458...does a 500gr at about 2,450 fps ...between a Lott and a 460 Wby. Did the trick on Cape Buff in Tanzania, for sure!