I tipped my former Zim PH a .460 Wby. He wanted one as it was (on paper) so powerful. I don't think he ever used it.

I have read two accounts on testing the .460 Wby and the .458 Win with the same bullets that the slower .458 would out penetrate the .460. Anyone here ever heard of this?

Cal

Cal, that's often the case, where velocity comes at the detriment of penetration. Some of the old 500gr+ hardcast bullets at 1,200 fps register the deepest penetration of all.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I almost bought a 460 twice. One was a lazermark that sat in a gunstore 3 or 4 years. Price came down to about $1200. (1990). The other time it was a standard version that was jap made for about $ 1500. (2000). I liked the cartridge but found it hard to spend twice the money on the Weatherby product.

I bought my MK V in 1999 at the Southgate, CA store for $699. The credit card was on the counter ready to purchase one at $1599 when the guy told me to wait and returned with a 24" bbl unit. Had slight checking, crazing really, in the finish at the fore end. I was stoked. Had Williams Sights installed during the 10 day wait. (Commiefornia).

The guy told me 9 out of 10 never make it to Africa. People buy them for the same reason I bought mine; they don't make a 560 Weatherby. I'm not a hunter, just a plinker, obviously.

2410 fps =/- 10 fps with IMR 4350 & Hornady 500 gr RN cheapies. Factory 500 gr is at 2550 fps.

I hope the .460 Weatherby is just a fad that is passing. Maybe the price of ammo/components will come back down. I used to buy ammo in the Elephant boxes for $62.50 each. Now a box of brass is $80. I have around 400 cases and approx. 75% of them have made 4 trips through the rifle.

On two different occasions I asked my optometrist if a really, really powerful rifle can detach a retina. They both insisted "No" except for a pre-existing condition. I have a sort of checklist I go through before firing; teeth clenched tightly, cheek tight against stock, watch out for front swivel lug and middle finger of trigger hand, tight against the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I tipped my former Zim PH a .460 Wby. He wanted one as it was (on paper) so powerful. I don't think he ever used it.

I have read two accounts on testing the .460 Wby and the .458 Win with the same bullets that the slower .458 would out penetrate the .460. Anyone here ever heard of this?

Cal

When I shoot steel plates of various thicknesses I find that 500 gr RN SP ammo blows holes through thicker material more easily than FMJ's. And they do better than Barnes RN brass homo's too. I'm sure an engineer or the like can explain why.

I have about 75 Speer AGS left. The tungsten cores separate every time when going through 3/4" steel plate. I once put one of them through 40 inches of douglas fir timbers laid endwise and I had to stop it with a piece of steel propped against the end. The result was it knocked the 3/8" plate away and the AGS opened up like a flower. Busted the tungsten core in half also. I always save these slugs when I can find them.

Because I'm not a hunter I try to find interesting ways to shoot things. The power of that .460 still amazes me and my pals.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Cal, that's often the case, where velocity comes at the detriment of penetration. Some of the old 500gr+ hardcast bullets at 1,200 fps register the deepest penetration of all.

When I shoot 6" x 12" Doug Fir timbers the bullets with flat meplats drill straight through while the RN FMJ economy units tumble and travel half as far as the former.

No surprises there.

If I remember correctly Saeed did some penetration testing a while back and that's what he used to determine the load for his 375/404. More speed reduced penetration so he stopped there.

buckstix,

A black Sharpie, indelible marker, could work wonders on the white-line spacer.
You won't even have to install a new buttpad on that 1960's Brevex 460 Wby.

In all the other familiar issues discussed here, I found the terminal ballistic pearl by Joe
about some "softs" penetrating steel plates better than some "solids."
That is interesting.

Assuming equal impact velocity, weight, and caliber, if the champion soft penetrates steel plate better than a loser solid:

I have to suspect that the soft will flatten more immediately on initial impact,
so as to maintain its normal/perpendicular presentation or angle of attack.
Maybe less tendency to yaw on impact.

Thus it keeps its momentum vector on course better, and is more likely to punch through.
Also, maybe there is something about the soft that increases the transformation
of kinetic energy into thermal energy, heat, on impact.
Molten bullet and target in a microlayer getting pushed aside by the properly aligned momentum?
Just a couple of ideas.
Sumbuddy who know?

You can stack the deck in bullet testing on artificial media.
Of course the best "data" on hunting bullets comes from field testing on lots of game.
Two of the best advisors I know:

John Buhmiller, the inventor and first user of what would become the 460 Weatherby Magnum:
He preferred the greater magazine capacity and moderate velocity with a heavy bullet, in his "450 Magnum" based on the belted H&H full length.
Hundreds of elephant, buffalo, and rhino give him street cred.
This is for his DGR used primarily as a "Stopper."
He would also have a more versatile second rifle along. To him, a .416 Rigby made a good plains game and varmint rifle.
Always a bolt action.
He feared he would try to work the bolt on a double rifle after the first shot, and have to reload after only two shots.

Saeed takes a different approach, well tested, verified, an all-purpose single rifle and bullet weight, bolt action.
300-grain, .375-cal, about 2750 fps MV, no more is needed. You have to admit the results speak for themselves.

Either Saeed's .375/404J or a .375 Weatherby will do the same thing.
Any .375 H&H can be rechambered to .375 Weatherby.
A .458 Lott is the easy replacement for the 450 Buhmiller.
Since you can shoot the everpresent .375 H&H ammo in the .375 Weatherby, in a pinch,
and you can shoot the common .458 WinMag ammo in the not so common .458 Lott ...

A best 2-rifle battery for Africa is easy.

And that Westley Richards 460 Wby is just plumb gay!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
buckstix,

A black Sharpie, indelible marker, could work wonders on the white-line spacer.
You won't even have to install a new buttpad on that 1960's Brevex 460 Wby.

How's this?

Much better.

Cal.
You are correct.

In 1983 Mike LaGrange published a little book titled Ballistics in perspective which basically recounted the rules regarding caliber for game of various classes in Zimbabwe and how they came to their decisions.

In this there are results of simulation testing where they found that an increase in velocity in the 458 cal bullet as found in the Winchester vs the Weatherby the slower 458 Win outpenetrated the faster Weatherby.

Just as question to those who say the 460 Weatherby is not dying :

When last was there actually a factory 460 Weatherby seen on a gun shop shelf and when last did anyone see a pack of factory 460 Weatherby ammo on a shelf ?

I ask this because I am of habit to visit random gun shops on my travels and it has been many many years since I have actually seen a factory 460 anywhere in a shop. Come to think of it it has been more than 40 years .

The last pack of 460 ammo I procured in Johannesburg South Africa cost more than what I paid for either of the two factory Weatherby's I picked up on Auction.

I say it would be a pity if it would disappear. I like this cartridge and i use it as often i can.

The problem is the availability of the ammo , but reloading is not a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Cal.
You are correct.

In 1983 Mike LaGrange published a little book titled Ballistics in perspective which basically recounted the rules regarding caliber for game of various classes in Zimbabwe and how they came to their decisions.

In this there are results of simulation testing where they found that an increase in velocity in the 458 cal bullet as found in the Winchester vs the Weatherby the slower 458 Win outpenetrated the faster Weatherby.

This "little book" was reprinted in 1990 as a second edition made available via Safari Press.
Author's forward, second paragraph:
"The booklet was well received both locally and internationally, with Safari Club International and Rigby of England seeking copies. This provided sufficient interest to reproduce it again, boosted with further information gathered since."

But it is still woefully inadequate in several areas such as not addressing the nose shape and bullet construction (e.g., round nose versus flat nose solids) effects on penetration.
And test media used amount to wood boards and "blue soap" blocks for the data of penetration.
But there is some real game data collection.

"APPENDIX F:" (new to the second edition) "SAMPLE OF BULLET HEADS ACTUALLY REMOVED FROM ELEPHANTS DURING CULLS 1985-1987"
This is a gem if only for the author's note at the end of the table:
"Note: In reality I believe that breakage would be less than indicated above as severely damaged bullet (sic) limiting penetration are more easily found than those remaining intact which often pass completely through the animal."


"APPENDIX C:" "PENETRATION TESTS ON 20mm BLOCK BOARD SET AT 20mm INTERVALS IN A STEEL FRAME."
The champion penetrator in that table was not (see champ below) the 460Wby 500 grains at 2700 fps, mean = 1208.3mm penetration depth
Remarks: "Bullet maintained direction through all."
But the 460 Wby beat the .458WinMag in that data set.
Compare that to the .458WinMag 500grains at 2040-2130 fps, mean = 971.4mm penetration depth
Remarks: "Bullets maintained direction."

My remarks: If you are shooting into a stack of pine boards with round-nose solids, the tail slap, or side forces of the dry wood on the bullets, keeps them all going straight,
and the first-order medium (dry wood) does not increase resistance as velocity increases,
so the higher velocity bullet penetrates better, as long as the bullet does not deform.

The great earth-shaker in this book needs statistical analysis for significance,
the data set is so small:

"TABLE 3 Penetration tests in 20mm block-board with the .460 Weatherby and .460 Short A Square using 500 grn Hornady solids."

Caliber ........................Muzzle Velocity ft/sec..........................Penetration mm
.460 Weatherby.................. 2700 .......................................... 1185
.460 Weatherby.................. 2700 .......................................... 1220
.460 Weatherby.................. 2700 .......................................... 1220
.460 Short A Square............ 2400 .......................................... 1240
.460 Short A Square............ 2400 .......................................... 1245
Remarks: All bullets were recovered intact."
"The reason for this is not fully understood; however, it is possible that at a distance of 15 meters the bullet from the .460 Weatherby, though with increased velocity, on impact had not stabilized. Consequently, some of the velocity was taken up by bullet 'yaw' through the blocks. The test indicated that there was no advantage from increased velocity. Possibly at greater distances, the bullet from the .460 Weatherby, having then stabilized, would out-perform the .460 Short A Square, provided of course it remained intact."


1208.3 mm for 3 shots fron a 460Wby (same three shots he used for APPENDIX C ?)
vs
1242.5 mm for 2 shots from a 460SAS (same two shots listed in APPENDIX C ?)

Appendix C did not calculate millimeters for the 460SAS like it did for the 460Wby and .458WinMag.
Each of the "board blocks" penetrated was 20mm thickness of wood.
It showed penetration for the 460SAS as "62 + D" and "63 side of" for the "BLOCK PENETRATED."
This is supposed to correspond to 62 x 20 mm = 1240mm and 63 side of = 1245mm?
It showed penetration for the 460Wby as "59 + D" and "61, 61" for the "BLOCK PENETRATED."
59 x 20mm = 1180mm, so "+ D" must add 5mm to get 1185mm penetration.
61 x 20mm = 1220mm.
That does average to mean = 1208.3mm for the 460Wby three shots.

Wow. Maybe 2400 fps is just the magic velocity in pine boards?

No, I guess not.
The champion penetrator in APPENDIX C was the .375 A-Square (a 378Wby ripoff):
350 grn. solid
2650 fps MV
BLOCK PENETRATED: "68 + D," depth of penetration calculated as 1365mm (68 x 20mm = 1360mm, so D = 5mm here too)
Author's REMARKS: "Bullet Retained shape & direction."
My comment: Sample of one shot, one data point, analyze that for statistical significance!

My interpretation: Higher sectional density allows higher-than-2400-fps velocity at the muzzle to become "magical," depending on the penetration medium and the bullet construction, of course.


This little book implies that the 460 Weatherby Magnum and 378 Weatherby Magnum are cool beans!
Surely they cannot be passing fads.

I have now decided that the ultimate big bore is the .475 OKH/Barnes Supreme/Buhmiller/Ackley/Capstick.
Take your pick for order of development. The Capstick was the only one ever SAAMI-ed.

Bolt action six-shooter with 500-grainer at 2400 fps, SD = 0.3166, KE = 6390 ft-lbs.
Good as it gets?

This beats a .500 Buhmiller only because of ready availability of bullets.

A custom bullet order for rebated-base .500-caliber bullets would make the .500 Buhmiller a player.
A .500-caliber/550-grainer at 2400 fps, SD = 0.3143, KE = 7,029 ft-lbs, in a six-shooter, if possible, might rule the roost as top stopper.

A CZ 550 Magnum could do this with a new barrel and a feed job.

In case I wasn't clear before, the .460 Weatherby is the best .458 out there. For belted case fans, of course.

For non-belted fans, the .450 Rigby does the same.

Problem is, the .460 Weatherby case, originally designed for the .378 Weatherby, better suits a .510 caliber bullet.

What is now known as the .500 A-Square takes that same case, and uses it to knock big, monster, fifty caliber 570 or 600 grain bullets out of the ballpark.

2,500+ fps MV.

8,000+ ft. lbs. ME.

All the way out of, beyond and over the fence, and into a different and better caliber of stopping power.

A different sport!

Believe it!

From one who has seen the difference.

I have used my mark v .460 15 years.. I have taken about 30+ moose with it.. 95% they are drt... I have used 500 grains hornady rnsp and woodleigh sp at 790 m/s 2600 fps!?
And also the 550 grain woodleigh rnsp at 752m/s 2450fps!? they were really effective...
I have Always "mastered" my .460.. as I have taken head shots on moose at 50-70 yards 2-3 times
Now I have sold my .460... I am going to buy a nice .30-06.. I have finally grown up

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
In case I wasn't clear before, the .460 Weatherby is the best .458 out there. For belted case fans, of course.

For non-belted fans, the .450 Rigby does the same.

Problem is, the .460 Weatherby case, originally designed for the .378 Weatherby, better suits a .510 caliber bullet.

What is now known as the .500 A-Square takes that same case, and uses it to knock big, monster, fifty caliber 570 or 600 grain bullets out of the ballpark.

2,500+ fps MV.

8,000+ ft. lbs. ME.

All the way out of, beyond and over the fence, and into a different and better caliber of stopping power.

A different sport!

Believe it!

From one who has seen the difference.

I think I know what I want to turn my cz action with the 416 rigby bolt face into now...

More than one gunwriter has said that Art Alphin should have called it the 500 Capstick instead of the 500 A-Square.
Afterall, both cartridges had been done multiple times before by others.
If Alphin had wished to honor Capstick with a cartridge headstamp, it should have been the "500 Capstick" on the fatter case,
instead of the skinny "470 Capstick."
So they say.

I have been a grasshopper too.
I have traveled the 500 A-Square trail and even ventured down the 500 Mbogo path (.510/.416 Rigby Improved 3-Inch).
But now I see the wisdom of the smaller case, one that allows 5 or 6 down in the magazine, plus one in the chamber.

A six-shooter or maybe even a lucky-seven-shooter.

This has brought me to consider the likes of a 470 Capstick or the .510 Buhmiller with rebated bullet,
or even a .500 Buhmiller with rebated bullet.

But there is that pesky belt and so little case taper on all of those.
The .510 Buhmiller suffers most from lack of case taper.
A .500 Buhmiller (with .500-caliber bullet base rebated to .476-caliber) would be only .001" less-tapered than the 470 Capstick,
allowing a neck-1 and neck-2 of .500" diameter instead of .499" as on the 470 Capstick.

I am still working on the lucky-seven-shooter, the sacred cow of the DGR.

I do not think I could bring myself to headspace on a case mouth or depend on the rim in an M70 extractor claw.
But some have done it! B&M and MDM cartridges come to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

The last pack of 460 ammo I procured in Johannesburg South Africa cost more than what I paid for either of the two factory Weatherby's I picked up on Auction.

If America is like Australia then calibres like the 460 and similar are not usually held in stock by gun shops but rather ordered as required.

I think some sales of the 460 would have been taken by the CZ in 416 Rigby.

Gents:
Thank you for replies to my post. As always, AR is very educational (except the political forum!).
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

In case I wasn't clear before, the .460 Weatherby is the best .458 out there. For belted case fans, of course.

The only negative with the 460 (and also the 378) is with reduced load flexibility and the problem is caused by the .75" parallel freebore.

Both will nicely come down down to 85 grains of 4064/Varget which gives right on 2000 f/s with 500 grainers in the 460 and with the 378 velocities are 2600 plus with 225, 270 and 300 grainers and top accuracy.

However, you can't come much under this and because of hang fires. If you could seat the bullet on the rifling then you would have no problem.

As a result to drop below the 375 H&H/458 Winchester levels you need the flake type shotgun sort of powders. In one 460 I used 28 grains of Hi Score (Dupont) and 400 Speer and 405 grain Remingtons for right on 1300 and they would shoot 1.5" at 100 yards all day long.

Although in America it might be different because I think you have a powder with name something like AA5544?? which is about 4227 burn rate but very bulky like a shotgun powder.

As RIP has already mentioned 115 grains of 4350 (and also W760)does a real easy 2500 f/s. I have never seen a Mark V (after bedding and floating) that failed to shoot less than inch with that load.

Working with the 460 and a 450 Ackley the 460 feels just like a big V8 manual while the 450 Ackley strains it guts out just like a stressed out jap 4 cylinder

One great thing about the big banger Mark Vs is the barrel lug is on the knox form only about and inch from the action.

I have a 460, a Japan version. I had wanted one since I was a kid and came across this one for a price I could afford.
It has the mesquite stock with a matte finish and iron sights. I bead blasted the metal and reblued. It added a muzzle brake.
I shot an Eland and carried it after buff in the Zambezi Delta. My PH shot a hippo with it in the delta. PH also borrowed it for backup on my friends lion.
A week ago I took it out for a college age friend to punish her new boyfriend. He fired it once and it was enough for him. I fired the rest of box and told him not to mess with old guys.
I will never sell it.

M

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Clark:

A week ago I took it out for a college age friend to punish her new boyfriend. He fired it once and it was enough for him. M

I've had two people say that. One shot, that's it.
I don't mind. More for me to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

The last pack of 460 ammo I procured in Johannesburg South Africa cost more than what I paid for either of the two factory Weatherby's I picked up on Auction.

If America is like Australia then calibres like the 460 and similar are not usually held in stock by gun shops but rather ordered as required.

I think that pretty well describes the ammo availability issue with the big Weatherby magnums. It's not a common sight in gun shops of today and must ordered. At least where I live the only shop that might have had it on the shelves was Chet Paulson's back in the 60's or 70's when they were one of THE places to go to outfit for a trip to Africa or Asia.

Recoil perception is very subjective.

I can shoot many rounds of 500 S&W one hand and well trained combat shooter used to 9mm Luger can't shoot that with two hands. He has of course much more muscles than me. I am not stronger or bigger, I just shoot for many years and I am used to absorb recoil with "whole body". Just shoot relaxed and let the recoil flow through body.

But I never shot 460 WBY, but I wanted that from my childhood. I can shoot 375 H&H all day, so few rounds of that 460 can't make me sick ;-)

Now, I am looking for .585 HE as a toy, but it will be ultimate paperwork here to get it.

Jiri

My 460 is the equivalent of a 1967 Shelby GT 350 with 4,000 original miles. I scored it at Cabelas when an employee priced it low thinking nobody would ever buy a lefthanded 460. I jumped on it immediately and had it shipped to the store closest to me. When I went to inspect it before buying I discovered that it wasn't just a lefthanded Mark V 460, but a (probably) unfired Custom Shop Lazermark. Absolutely beautiful. I put a simple 4x Leupold on it, sighted it to 100yds and shoot it every now and then. It will never be hunted or used for its potential other than putting a sloppy grin on my face after it goes off.

Awesome! Now, if it's stocked in Myrtle or Mesquite, you've got a big-dollar collector gun. At the beginning they used woods more durable than Walnut when they could source them, fearing the recoil of the mighty 460 would result in stock splits. I guess they later figured out that Walnut worked fine, as long as it was very straight-grained.

Off the main topic a bit...I have reamer and dies for the 500 Killall. Not sure when I'll get to that but it is a belted Rum case to .500. Won't be a six shooter but a good option for a .500" DGR. I wonder if Buhmiller would have eventually made the 550 Magnum or 550 Express AKA .550" bullet in a Wby case.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
More than one gunwriter has said that Art Alphin should have called it the 500 Capstick instead of the 500 A-Square.
Afterall, both cartridges had been done multiple times before by others.
If Alphin had wished to honor Capstick with a cartridge headstamp, it should have been the "500 Capstick" on the fatter case,
instead of the skinny "470 Capstick."
So they say.

I have been a grasshopper too.
I have traveled the 500 A-Square trail and even ventured down the 500 Mbogo path (.510/.416 Rigby Improved 3-Inch).
But now I see the wisdom of the smaller case, one that allows 5 or 6 down in the magazine, plus one in the chamber.

A six-shooter or maybe even a lucky-seven-shooter.

This has brought me to consider the likes of a 470 Capstick or the .510 Buhmiller with rebated bullet,
or even a .500 Buhmiller with rebated bullet.

But there is that pesky belt and so little case taper on all of those.
The .510 Buhmiller suffers most from lack of case taper.
A .500 Buhmiller (with .500-caliber bullet base rebated to .476-caliber) would be only .001" less-tapered than the 470 Capstick,
allowing a neck-1 and neck-2 of .500" diameter instead of .499" as on the 470 Capstick.

I am still working on the lucky-seven-shooter, the sacred cow of the DGR.

I do not think I could bring myself to headspace on a case mouth or depend on the rim in an M70 extractor claw.
But some have done it! B&M and MDM cartridges come to mind.

the nice thing about my 550 Gibbs; I can always load it down to just over 460 Wbee specs...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Off the main topic a bit...I have reamer and dies for the 500 Killall. Not sure when I'll get to that but it is a belted Rum case to .500. Won't be a six shooter but a good option for a .500" DGR. I wonder if Buhmiller would have eventually made the 550 Magnum or 550 Express AKA .550" bullet in a Wby case.

If Uncle John's wife and stepson burned his diaries and journals and liquidated his rifles, as rumored, who knows what was lost?
Buhmiller might also have made a rebated-base true .577-caliber bullet and stuck it in a minimal-taper 460 Wby straight case.

Hello boom stick,

I am going to have to search for that one, the 500 Killal, wish you would post a cartridge case drawing here!
Very close to perfect!

I am thinking that the case body and shoulder of the .375-404 Jeffery Saeed plus the 470 Capstick neck and throat
would make a dandy "470 Jeffery Capstick Beltless."
Use two reamers, make one chamber.
That would make a shoulder wider than is on the 400 Whelen, and the angle a few degrees sharper.
Might get 5 of those cartridges into a CZ box too, a six-shooter anyway.
A 470 Capstick is red in the face pushing 500-grainers at 2400 fps MV, even with a 26" barrel.
The goal will be only 2400 fps with .475/500-grain bullet from a barrel shorter than 26", without straining.
A very modest proposal indeed, for a "470-404 Jeffery Beltless Capstick."
But it will out-do a 460 G&A, if not a 460 Wby.

(That last comment was to bring this highjack back to topic.)

BTW, is CZ USA offering rifles chambered for the .550 Magnum now?
How appropriate for a chambering of the CZ 550 Magnum rifle: A .550 Magnum CZ 550 Magnum, not just perseveration anymore.
Neal Shirley's great use for a 460 Weatherby case.

I find all of the fascinating even if I have trouble keeping up.

My 458 Win Mag fits the bill fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
My 458 Win Mag fits the bill fine.

Yes, but only if you are not crazy about rifles. Everybody is crazy about something, or they are not alive. What's your craziness?

I've had a relapse:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/9891080822

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../6521043/m/972108966

Here is the thread that I have linked in my sig line. If you want to borrow the dies and reamer to make one, let me know. Manson has the reamer print and made the dies. Easier to fiddle with a few dozed cases than a few thousand bullets for a half inch bullet in a smaller package.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Off the main topic a bit...I have reamer and dies for the 500 Killall. Not sure when I'll get to that but it is a belted Rum case to .500. Won't be a six shooter but a good option for a .500" DGR. I wonder if Buhmiller would have eventually made the 550 Magnum or 550 Express AKA .550" bullet in a Wby case.

If Uncle John's wife and stepson burned his diaries and journals and liquidated his rifles, as rumored, who knows what was lost?
Buhmiller might also have made a rebated-base true .577-caliber bullet and stuck it in a minimal-taper 460 Wby straight case.

Hello boom stick,

I am going to have to search for that one, the 500 Killal, wish you would post a cartridge case drawing here!
Very close to perfect!

I am thinking that the case body and shoulder of the .375-404 Jeffery Saeed plus the 470 Capstick neck and throat
would make a dandy "470 Jeffery Capstick Beltless."
Use two reamers, make one chamber.
That would make a shoulder wider than is on the 400 Whelen, and the angle a few degrees sharper.
Might get 5 of those cartridges into a CZ box too, a six-shooter anyway.
A 470 Capstick is red in the face pushing 500-grainers at 2400 fps MV, even with a 26" barrel.
The goal will be only 2400 fps with .475/500-grain bullet from a barrel shorter than 26", without straining.
A very modest proposal indeed, for a "470-404 Jeffery Beltless Capstick."
But it will out-do a 460 G&A, if not a 460 Wby.

(That last comment was to bring this highjack back to topic.)

BTW, is CZ USA offering rifles chambered for the .550 Magnum now?
How appropriate for a chambering of the CZ 550 Magnum rifle: A .550 Magnum CZ 550 Magnum, not just perseveration anymore.
Neal Shirley's great use for a 460 Weatherby case.

I like the idea of a full length Jeffery/Rum case necked to .475". Would be like a super size 10.75x68. "470 RUM (RIP/Ron Ultra Mag)" I think I would rather just make a new rim and extractor groove on existing 470 NE cases and preserve all that load data and have existing dies and reamer. 470 NE Rimless. No headstamp headache bonus.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I like the idea of a full length Jeffery/Rum case necked to .475". Would be like a super size 10.75x68. "470 RUM (RIP/Ron Ultra Mag)" I think I would rather just make a new rim and extractor groove on existing 470 NE cases and preserve all that load data and have existing dies and reamer. 470 NE Rimless. No headstamp headache bonus.

Boomy-

go back to your 404-375. Best idea in many years, i have 2 416's but really want D'Arcy to build me a 404-375, preferably on a pre 64 action.

I can appreciate lots of wildcats
Go team 404-375!

Wellll, the testosterone is heavier here than in my real world..

I really liked the post about the guy who shot the barrel our of his .460!, ain't nobody shot the barrel out of a .460! It ain't no push its a bludgeoning; I ain't no puss, and I'll fight a buzz saw, but the 460 Wby shivers my timbers, Im scairt of it

What the fuck is happening on AR?

We have the 378 thread and 300 Wby thread on Medium Bores but without the "anti Weatherby" postings.