quote:

I think Ray B is just yanking your chain.

Maybe so, but over the years in discussions concerning gun/hunting writers, I have noticed that some folks are more interested in the technical aspects of the various calibers and their performance from the bench and how to up the velocity and which powder or bullet provides the best performance and how barrel length affects the various aspects, with the Holy Grail being the tightest group that can be obtained.

I grew up with a different outlook on things because I found out early on that few critters stand still waiting for shots two and three, so I want my first shot to be my last unless I have to put in a finisher on a wounded animal.

Some folks like pushing the limits, either their personal abilities or that of their chosen equipment to obtain the highest level of performance possible.

I am more concerned with in the field performance than the technical aspects.

Of course Elmer Keith was the greatest.
Elmer "The Great One" Keith is how we say his name here in Kentucky, and we know the ins and outs of guns and gunwriter whores here for sure.

Rip ...[/QUOTE]

This is the Turth! My Uncle Bull in Wolfe county hunting in Bretheitt County, buck only county, killed his buck on opening morning with 2 shots from his two 58 caliber Muzzleloding Rifles. He firmly agrees with Keith’s aessement that these new fangled “small bores” just do not kill. I do not know the load, but it is enough powder to give the strongest using 80s coke girl a heart attack.


When I was reading gun mags we had Jim Carmaical writing for Outdoor Life and Dave Perzal writing for Field and Stream. They seemed to have been keeping the O’Conor v. Keith feud going. Perzal recounting horrors of lost elk from the 270, the 30/06 not being big enough for elk. The 375 HH is ok , but he would not use one on Cape Buffalo.

Carmaical was writing about shooting Kudu with the 30/06 and 270. How the 260 Remington was a perfect balance and great deer cartridge. I remember an article about the 257 Robert. I took to my allying adopted father who could not shoot his 338 WM anymore due to open heart surgery. My thought was he could read the article and be convinced to use the more gentlemanly 257 Roberts. “Pa, they even have plus P loads!” I was pointing at the sentence.

He canceled the subscription and bought a 35 Remington in a Marlin.

I find the .300 RUM case superbly accurate; much more so than the .375 HH, for example. I have not tried a .375 RUM, but my .300 RUMs and Edges are awesomely accurate. Kind of like a bigger .308. The .30-06 might be a great all around cartridge, but I have found it easier to get better accuracy with either the .308 or 300 RUM.

I think the problem with the .375 RUM is simply the fact DG is not shot at extended ranges, and lesser cartridges work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
Compared to Townsend Whelen, Elmer Keith was an amateur.

Maybe?

The two books I found best were Hatchers Notebook and Principles and Practice of Loading Ammunition by Earl Naramore. Also Ackley's two books.

I suppose the bloke who had the most influence was Roy Weatherby.

I remember clearly (probably because I had them ) those early 70s M70 XTRs. The angled forend tip and the Weatherby butt, almost a copy and the Sako Deluxe and when Sako went from the cylindrical shaped bolt shroud to the Weatherby style.

Yes, Elmer was an amateur, but he had a lot of experience at it. For the record, "Hell I was there" has nothing to do with Hell. It is a book about his life, and is very entertaining. Sure, he was full of BS, but who isn't?
No he is not the technical guy that others were; he was who he was and that does not diminish his influence on me at least.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
"Hell I was there" has nothing to do with Hell. It is a book about his life,

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I find the .300 RUM case superbly accurate; much more so than the .375 HH, my .300 RUMs and Edges are awesomely accurate.

Nosler agrees. In the Nosler Reloading guide 6, 375 RUM Technical Information "The most accurate of the 375s, the RUM has edged-out the old H&H as our standard 375 caliber test vehicle H4831sc and H1000 will generally provide best results, especially when teamed with magnum primers."


Other 375 cartridges which Nosler tested and would have been included in the accuracy evaluation were: 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, & 378 Weatherby.

What if the 300 WSSM had been the 300 H&H? What if the 6.5 Creedmoor had been the 6.5x55 Swedish? What if the .25 Sharps had been the .250-3000 Savage? What if the .300 Blackout had been the .30 Carbine? What if the .223 had been the .222 Magnum? What if the .308 had been the .30-06? What if the .284 Winchester had been the 7X57mm Mauser? What if, what if, what if.........

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
What if the 300 WSSM had been the 300 H&H? What if the 6.5 Creedmoor had been the 6.5x55 Swedish? What if the .25 Sharps had been the .250-3000 Savage? What if the .300 Blackout had been the .30 Carbine? What if the .223 had been the .222 Magnum? What if the .308 had been the .30-06? What if the .284 Winchester had been the 7X57mm Mauser? What if, what if, what if.........

Probably a large proportion of forum posting here and other forums and not just guns are based on "what if" or same variation of What If

I'll play "What if..." for a second.

Remington didn't want Winchester or whoever to do to them what they did to Win. with the 7mm Mag, so they registered about every caliber of Ultra Mag imaginable in 2000. Including a 416 RUM...

And since the only reason for the worrysome rebated rim is so Remington didn't have to invest in a slightly larger bolt face to fit the 404 Jeffery case...

What if Winchester would take the Ultramag case (or Jeffery case) and change the shoulder to base dimension, or neck length or whatever they need to do to keep from stepping on Remington's toes, leave the rim full diameter and neck it to .416".

They would end up with something akin to the late and mostly forgotten 416 Dakota that they could market as a 416 Winchester Uber Magnum or whatever. Bump up the velocity to 2450 and have their pet gunwriters churn out a bunch of advertisements about "lower pressure", "flatter shooting"and "more accurate than belted cases"

I know, the market is too small and I'm really happy with the Rem Mag, but still...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

I think the problem with the .375 RUM is simply the fact DG is not shot at extended ranges, and lesser cartridges work just fine.

The 378 has done well. In fact I think over 2000 were sold before the Mark V came out.

However, its extra velocity and especially wit 270 grainers makes it like a big 300 Magnum and it has a lot more pizzazz than the 375RUM.

Although I still think if had been the 375 Winchester Magnum and of course in the M70 it would have done much better.