Awesome! Congrats on the new baby Head Trauma! Looks great.

I am falling a ways behind you guys in my planning and procurement. Changes on the job front and an impending move north have frozen most discretionary spending. Still hoping to get some parts headed Rusty's way in the not-too-distant future. . In the meantime I am seriously enjoying the vicarious thrills of seeing your Jeffery Saeeds come to fruition, and performing well.

Cheers,
Chris

HT,

That is a very nice looking rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
HT,

That is a very nice looking rifle!

Yes indeed, Russ,
that McMillan-Echols Legend stock does add some class.
Also good to hear you checked the fireformed brass for absence of runout.

So you are going to do an electrolytic metal etching of the cartridge designation on the barrel yourself,
rather than defile a superb barrel job by hand stamping, or the wait for an engraver?
What I really hate is having to grind a flat spot where the previous stamping was and THEN engrave or re-stamp it. Ouch!!!

http://how-to-make-stencils.com/metal.html

Please keep us posted on the results, and how much you decide to spell out of:

.375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012

Sounds like a great thing for any gunsmith or riflecrank to learn how to do.

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente

Here is the third one on this side of the pond.

Olive baboon skull and skin to add interest to the defilement of a superb barrel job by stamping:



Dry weight of the rifle is 8 lbs. 13 oz.
Scoped with CZ rings it is 9 lbs. 15 oz.:



McGee-CZ box, and polished feed ramp and rails, it used to hold 5-down in 404 Jeffery, now holds only 4-down with the 375/404JS, almost gets the fifth,
which will CRF off the top of the box, so it is only a 5-Shooter rifle.
Fed well as a 404J, feeds great now as a 375/404JS.
The shoulder moved forward and broadened is just enough to keep the bolt from closing on 5 in the box.
Tried a non-ribbed box and it would get 5-down but did not feed as well, so I can live with this:



The CZ Kevlar stock made by B&C is a nice fit for this CZ action that was once a perfectly functioning 404 Jeffery from CZ-USA, until that fancy walnut stock of poor grain structure snapped off at the wrist.
Full aluminum bedding block and action bedding with MarineTex,
then 5 pounds of weight was hung on the forend tip for the second step full-contact barrel channel bedding.
LaPour safety and Timney trigger set at 3 pounds:




Brockman forend tip stud and McGee filler screw:




This is a slim barrel, No.3 sporter contour barrel from Pac-Nor, "Stainless Steel Super Match Grade."
It is 1:10" twist.
Looking forward to seeing what it does with long bullets, after all this holiday cheer is out of the way.
Nice that it got finished in 2012.
It is, afterall, the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012.

25" barrel length, balances well as shown with scope and rings and CZ 550 Magnum "Kevlar" stock.
After Rusty McGee cut it from supplied 28" to finished 25", the muzzle diameter is 0.640", plenty thick enough for a .375.

Thanks to Canuck for helping me decide on 25" length.

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente

I like it! Congrats on the new arrival.

Looking forward to seeing your results with this one two. Will be very interesting to see if th 10" twist makes a difference.

Merry Christmas!
Chris

There is a lot to like about that rifle. Very good!

Took my M70 to the range today to zero the scope and fire-form some brass. The brass was new Hornady 404 Jeffery necked to close with a slight bump, trimmed to 2.830". The load was 85gr H4350 with a Barnes 300gr TSX, COL 3.74". The cases fire-formed very nicely, no drama.

100 yards



Shots 1-3 to get close, scope adjustment after #3, let the rifle cool, fired 4-6, not too bad.

200 yards



The point of aim for 200 yards is the tip of the tapered portion of the transition from the fine to thick part of the recticle (duplex reticle). With a 100 yard zero this load drops about 5" at 200 yards. It is a moderate pressure load, lots of radius left on the fired primers. When I get my dies from Hornady I will bump the load to about 88gr and do some chronographing.

Rusty did an oustanding chambering job, there is NO runout on the fired cases, I have never had one this good. It is easy to shoot from the bench, not harsh or abusive at all. It will be a pussycat off the sticks.

I am going to take one of the fired cases and make a Stoney Point type case gauge to play a little with bullet seating depths, but really, this thing shoots just fine as is (if it's not broke, don't fix it).

I love this rifle

Very nice, Russ, especially when first two bullets fired at 200-yard target go into a one-hole bullseye on first outing for fire-forming brass.
Keep us posted on how the Hornady brass works in the Hornady dies, when you get them.
I have only worked with Norma 404 Jeffery brass.
Hopefully the Hornady brass is all around good too.

Pretty darn awesome for fireforming work! Can't wait to see more results as you dial in your loads, etc.

Keep up the great work gents!

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!
Chris

Update. Same load configuration as before, increased the powder charge to 88gr H4350.
Still lots of radius left on the fired primers
easy extraction and bolt lift.





The increased powder charge produced a significant trajectory decrease, out to 200 yards it is now just point and shoot, no
hold-over necessary

Russ,
Slight breeze from left to right?
Saeed hunts with his fire-forming loads, looks like you can too,
but there will be some improvement in your groups when you get some reloading dies.

Shoulder mirage

That;s crazy cool...

Very nice Russ... Your's and Ron's work is certainly putting Rusty on the map as a primo 'smith for extremely accurate hunting rifles...

Did you check the velocities with 88gr?

I hope to chronograph the 88gr loads if it's not too cold next weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Head Trauma:
I hope to chronograph the 88gr loads if it's not too cold next weekend.

Great!
You are doing better than I am at getting to the range!

From balmier days on this thread:

There is one 3-shot group of 300-grain TSX with 85.0-grain charge of H4350 and short COL, velocity plotted here,
and 85.0-grain and 88.0-grain loads with long COL also plotted for velocity.
Compared to QuickLOAD prediction for velocity and pressure, we'll see what you get:



That was in a Dan Lilja No.6-sporter-fluted-stainless-1:12" just like yours, except mine is 26" long to your 25.5", eh?
Your throat is just like mine too, and here are my homemade throat go and no-go gages:





We do not know the throat that Saeed has on his rifles.
He custom makes his own bullets to fit his throat and mag box, the 300-grain Walterhog Do-All Bullet.

With our "newest CIP .375 Weatherby Magnum type" throat on the .375/404JS'12
we can use any bullet, just a matter of finding the best fit for accuracy.

Three rifle weights with scope and mounts installed:

CZ 550 Magnum 10 lbs. 0 oz. with CZ Kevlar/B&C stock, 26" Lilja barrel:



Winchester M70, 9 lbs. 14 oz. with McMillan-Echols Legend magnum-filled stock, 25.5" Lilja barrel:



CZ 550 Magnum, 9 lbs. 15 oz. with CZ Kevlar/B&C stock, 25" Pac-Nor barrel:



I think they are all nicely balanced with a Leupold Vari-X III 2.5X8 scope.

Interesting to note that my second CZ with
25"-long Pac-Nor No.3-sporter-stainless-1:10"-twist barrel weighs 8 lbs. 13-oz.
That is is not much lighter than the CZ with
26"-long Dan Lilja No.6-sporter-stainless-1:12"-twist-FLUTED barrel which weighs 8-lbs.-14-oz.
Those are weights with scope and rings removed.
Except for the barrels, those two rifles are identical.

Of course a lot more epoxy was added to fill the barrel channel of the stock on the skinny-barreled rifle,
so the barrel weight difference is more than 1 ounce.
But still, those flutes must really lighten the barrel some, faster cooling too.

Question: Is a fluted No.6 sporter stiffer than a simple/non-fluted No.3 sporter contour?


Kentucky Fried Rifles
RIFLECRANK INTERNATIONALE PERMANENTE

I did some chronographing today, 32 degrees, cold, dirty barrel. I used the 88gr H4350, Barnes 300gr TSX fireforming loads.

2748,2709,2656,2663,2702,2678,2575,2650,2698.

Average for 9 shots 2675.

I have a hunch that the fireforming process is responsible for the low velocity, the velocity deviations and the wide range between the high and low numbers.

When I get my dies from Hornady I will repeat and see what happens to the numbers.

I have had problems with chronographs in the cold and dim days of winter, especially if stray snowflakes interfere.

Seriously, I don't like to chronograph unless it is above freezing, you were right at freezing.
And yes, the fireforming process is going to cause variability to boot.
Better days are coming.
I like 40F or warmer for chronographing, and only between 10AM and 2PM with sun or bright clouds overhead.
Oh, for the life of an indoor range owner.

I am scheming now.
Maybe an indoor range is possible for me,
with fluorescent lights over an Oehler 35P just 5 yards (15 feet) from the muzzle, with a bullet trap right behind the chronograph.
Maybe a 55-gallon drum, end-on on saw horses, full of wet sand, with a rubber sheet entry port, as a bullet trap?
Maybe a 10" DIAMETER pipe full of wet sand resting inside the IronWaterBoardBuffalo, 100" long,
on however many steel sawhorses it takes to support the weight.
Yes, I ought to be able to fit that into 25 feet of garage, or barn.
Chrono at home, for load development,
accuracy test at the outdoor range in any weather.

RIP,Do you live in the country or, suburbs at leat? I oft wondered about the cost of a Saeed-esque underground range, when I didn't live in town. Looking at a relocation at the moment though, has me wondering about possibilities again. If I can find something with sufficient elbow room in my new locale, I would seriously consider a test facility like Corlane Sporting Goods uses for load/turret development for their Best of the West affiliated Huskemaw package rifle sales.

I have also thought about how to at least to velocity testing indoors, as you have suggested. Not sure the best way to suppress the sound though. One fairly inexpensive option that was suggested to me was using a row of used tires filled with spray foam insulation, with a rubber mat at each end...a slot for the scoped rifle to fit thru at one end and a fairly small hole to shoot out of at the other end. Then you would have the chronograph, followed by the media to catch the bullet...whatever that would be.

Take a look at Michael458's terminal bullet thread. It shows the inside of his indoor range. When I was there, you just heard sort of low 'whoom' when the gun went off when you were outside. He has some baffling inside and it's a very nice place to shoot...neighbors don't seem to mind!

Just turned the TV on and "Best of the West" was on. I almost changed the channel when they dumped a pronghorn using the hood of the truck as a rest for a long range shot, but right afterward they did a product review for this...

http://www.thebulletbunker.com/

They were using it to chrony loads in their garage, when the weather is crappy at their home base in Cody, WY.

Should do the trick, eh?

Canuck,
Unfortunately I am a suburbanite.
Noise! Had not even though about the sound reduction.
And local ordnances about firing elephant rifles in your home.
It is going to be a while yet before I have an all-weather chronograph facility.
Thanks for the Bullet Bunker and other ideas.

375/404 COL case gauge


300 Barnes TSX into the rifling COL 3.922"

My magazine limits to about 3.80"

If you want to make one of these for a cartridge that is not available from Hornady, you can make one using a sized case with the base tapped 5/16-36 TPI

Yep, looks about like this:
Effective Free-Bore Length = [Length from bolt face to groove diameter] - [maximum case length], given bullet Major O.D. equals groove diameter.
That includes:
Plus tolerance of chamber length beyond maximum brass length
45-degree chamfer length to step down from chamber neck diameter to parallel-sided free-bore diameter
Length of parallel-sided free-bore
Free-bore diameter as it affects length of leade
Leade angle as it affects length to taper from free-bore diameter to groove diameter.

The EFBL is longer than the specified PSFBL of 0.3700" for this cartridge.




Bad weather chronograph station:

Get a 40-footer and a Bullet Bunker in one end ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Bad weather chronograph station:

Get a 40-footer and a Bullet Bunker in one end ...

LOL! That would work...wonder how the "harmonics" would be inside? I guess you could line it with thick insulation all the way around, and add some ventilation...

RIP,
I may have missed something along the way, but do you have any plans to try these out?

http://www.sierrabullets.com/i...section=new_products



An average BC around .780 is pretty impressive.

I would be interested to know if 10" or 12" twist made a difference here.

This and the other options (non-cons) etc, have me thinking of revising my (temporarilly delayed) plans on a .375/404 rifle configuration a little.

Great idea Canuck!
We could start another "MatchKing" thread!
That has potential.
I will surely give them a try.
I also have some over-300-grain CEB copper VLD hollowpoint bullets to try.
I am going to be shooting .375/404 while the 400 Whelen cools at next range trip.
I'll get to them eventually.
These, as pictured in your post above: In bulk, 500 of them, for less than 89 cents a piece.


375 Caliber (.375 diameter)
350 grain HP MatchKing (Part # 9350)
Sierra Bullets is pleased to introduce the newest member of the MatchKing line, the .375 caliber 350 g grain HPBT.
This bullet was designed for a custom long range application and is the largest MatchKing we produce.
We knew the 11 caliber ogive, 9 degree boat tail and Sierra's famously forgiving ogive
would make this bullet a big hit with our big bore long range customers.

These bullets will be available in boxes of 500 bullets (stock #9350) with a 2012 suggested retail of $443.72 per box,
and trial boxes of 50 bullets (stock #9350T) with a 2012 suggested retail of $53.24 per box.

B.C.

.805 @ 2200 fps and above

.780 between 1700 and 2000 fps

.720 between 1700 and below



.830 BC for these 320-grainers from CEB:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com...d=action&key=MTH_L01



Walterhog substitute that out-hogs the Walterhog?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Question: Is a fluted No.6 sporter stiffer than a simple/non-fluted No.3 shorter contour?

the short answer, "Yes."

I don't recollect which barrel mfg website answered this question...but basically the fluted barrel will be slightly less stiff than the base un-fluted barrel at the same length but it will be stiffer than smaller dimensioned un-fluted barrel of the same weight and length... Anyway, that's the long answer.

Jim,
Thanks for confirming my suspicion.
Hopefully my Pac-Nor No.3 "Super Match Grade" 1:10" is not too whippy ...
I have a ready excuse if I can't shoot it as accurately as the fluted No.6 Lilja of 1:12" twist.
Will go do some more reloading now, just in case the weather allows a range trip.
Where's that "Global Warming" when you need it?

Temperature here was 25 F (-4 C) early this AM.
It got up to 37 F (+3 C) while I was at the range. Heat wave!
Sunny and no wind of consequence.
Perfect day to chronograph the last 10 rounds of deer hunting ammo in rifle no. 2 before I try the CEB ESP Raptors.

I had to make sure that the faster twist rifle no. 2 is accurate before proceeding.

The Load: .375/404 JS-2012
250-grain Barnes TTSX
92.0 grains H4350 Extreme
F-215 primer
Norma brass
COL = 3.765"

Rifle No. 1 had 26" barrel length, 1:12" Lilja No. 6 sporter, stainless, fluted. Temperature at time of shooting was 67 F: 3005 fps MV

Rifle No. 2 has 25" barrel length, 1:10" Pac-Nor No. 3 sporter, stainless, plain/no fluting. Temperature at time of shooting was 37 F: 2987 fps MV

10 shot average for Rifle No. 2 today: 2987 fps MV, ES was 34 fps (low of 2963, high of 2997), Sd = OK.

This is only 18 fps less than MV for same load in Rifle No. 1 which had 1" longer barrel and slower 12" twist, and 30 degrees F warmer ambient temperature.

Rifle No. 2 grouped a little better too:
I think it is ready for some Raptors.
But I will try to get the trigger tuned a bit before it goes to the range again.
Need to get rid of some creep and lighten it up a bit.

First 4 shots were spent at 50 yards, getting on paper.

Then 3 shots at 100 yards:



Scope adjusted and tried again, last 3 shots at 100 yards, out of ammo:



Consistent group size!

This is a skinny, fast-twist barrel (No.3 Pac-Nor Sporter, 1:10").
The rifle barrel is full-contact bedded with 5 pounds of up-pressure at the forend tip.
CZ action screws torqued to 60 inch-pounds.
Excellent bedding job by Rusty McGee, per my specification for full contact barrel bedding with up pressure at forend tip.
This trick seems to work regularly with skinny-barreled .375-caliber rifles,
like my old Pre-64 .375 H&H, that had a No. 3 Douglas Sporter Contour:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


Then 3 shots at 100 yards:



Scope adjusted and tried again, last 3 shots at 100 yards, out of ammo:



Consistent group size!

This is a skinny, fast-twist barrel (No.3 Pac-Nor Sporter, 1:10").
The rifle barrel is full-contact bedded with 5 pounds of up-pressure at the forend tip.
CZ action screws torqued to 60 inch-pounds.
Excellent bedding job by Rusty McGee, per my specification for full contact barrel bedding with up pressure at forend tip.
This trick seems to work regularly with skinny-barreled .375-caliber rifles,
like my old Pre-64 .375 H&H, that had a No. 3 Douglas Sporter Contour:

Awesome!!! Very exciting results. Very nice when a plan comes together.

Looking forward to the high BC boolit testing!

Thanks, again, Canuck.
For attention seeking purposes I ought to post this on the "Modest Proposal" thread.
It does show that progress is happening, slowly.

Will a rifle chambered in 300 RUM be a suitable action for the 375/404 JS?

If it functions well as a 300 RUM, it should be perfect for a .375/404 Jeffery.

Chronographing session round 2:

55 degrees F
Barnes 300gr TSX
92 gr H4350
COL 3.74"

2891,2887,2886,2876,2871 average 2882 fps
These were once-fireformed brass FL sized

Easy extraction/bolt lift, still plenty of radius left on the fired primers, could go higher but no real need to.

The Lilja barrel is very nice, very little copper fouling, cleans up with minimal work.

Taking it out this weekend to check zero with the new load, will shoot at 300 yards to see what the drop is like.

M70's in RUM are scarce and pricey when you can find them. A M70 mag bolt face action with a windowed mag box, opened up to 375 length will get you there just as well. My rifle was a 375 H&H, stuck the windowed mag box in it, feeds and ejects just fine.

Edit: 2" high@100 yards, dead on @ 200yards.

My Hornady 375/404 dies do not size the necks of the fired cases enough to retain bullets when you try to seat them after sizing

I have an RCBS 375 UltraMag FL sizing die that I cut about 1/2" off the bottom to use as a sizing die to take the 404 Jeffery cases down to 375 prior to fireforming. This die gives me a properly sized neck.

I now use this die after I size the cases in the Hornady dies to get a correctly sized neck.
The "dual-sized" cases shoot just fine. Kind of a pain, but then again, this is not a rifle you run a lot of rounds thru at the range.

Head Trauma;

Are you using Norma brass?
The dies are designed for use with Norma brass and have given me no problems.
Saeed used Norma brass.
I used Norma brass.

You are proving the .375/404 Jeffery will beat a .375 Weatherby eh?

I am using Hornady brass. Other than the neck issues, the Hornady brass is excellent for this application. I think I will try to scrounge up some Norma brass and see what sort of difference it makes. Having the RCBS 375 Ultramag die for use as a sizing die for the initial forming is a good idea and came handy when my dies would not work with Hornady brass.

This is a very powerful cartridge/rifle combination with the 300gr Barnes TSX. I think I could push it to about 2950fps, but really think that is past the point of diminishing marginal returns.