Breakthroughs in bullet technology promise to serve the 400 Bateleur well.

The GSC .408/370-grain HV loaded with 3.820" C.O.L. (shown above is 3.810" at 2.690" trim-to brass length)
promises to be magazine-loadable in a CZ 550 Magnum.
Also, re-sized Barnes TSX 300-grainer (from .411-caliber)



or TTSX 350-grainer (from .416-caliber) are suitable for smaller game.



"400 Bald Eagle" is reserved for a .408 Chey-Tac RIP-off, certfiable by RIP.
"400 Bateleur" is revived as a mate to the 500 Bateleur, also certified by RIP.
.408-caliber, a "big bore" to some, barely a "big bore" at all to others, puns intended.

The 400 Bateleur cries out for a throat like a .375 Weatherby 2001 vintage.
(insert auditory hallucinations of screeching eagle here)
Upsized for .408 caliber, that should be:
.403" parallel-sided free-bore length
.4087" diameter of free-bore
1-degree, 7-minute leade angle of throat

Brass is Lapua-made .338 Lapua Magnum, necked up for .408 bullet.
Maximum brass length of 2.700" instead of 2.724".
No other changes.

That does it. It is fully specified.
It is certifiable.
And I resemble that last remark.

.375 Weatherby Magnum throat of 2001 (Weatherby re-design) was certified by C.I.P. in 2002.
The free-bore is tight in diameter, only .0006" greater than bullet diameter.
Parallel-sided free-bore length is only .005" less than caliber length.
Leade angle is a gentle 1-degree, 7-minute transition from free-bore to rifling.

The reason I have faith in this throat is how well it handled the long-nosed Walterhog
that has a big jump from case mouth to rifling engagement:



The GSC HV is the closest commercial offering to a Walterhog.
Saeed did not quit re-designing the Walterhog until he got GSC HV performance from his home-made bullet.






The 400 Bateleur with ".375-Weatherby-ized" throat should handle the HV well.
It will also allow use of re-sized Barnes .411 and .416 bullets seated long.



Typical GSC HV performance regarding expansion versus velocity. These are .395/340gr HV bullets from my .395 Tatanka:



Does penetration get better with higher velocity because the petals snap off sooner,
leaving a higher SD cylinder as remnant at 2700 fps than at 2500 fps?
This would be in addition to greater remaining velocity and smaller frontal area?
But longer is less stable than shorter ... and I used that term SD again!
Just talking to myself, certifiable.

Sorry for the slight off topic. It would also be cool to use the 408 reamer and dies to make a 400-500 Jeffery with about 155 grains capacity but able to mag feed from a CZ 550 as well. I bet you have everything at your disposal to make a dummy round
400/500 Jeffery would be a pretty easy headstamp conversion.
It could use a jazzy name like 400 HT (Hammer of Thor)

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Sorry for the slight off topic.
Of course you are.
It would also be cool to use the 408 reamer and dies to make a 400-500 Jeffery with about 155 grains capacity but able to mag feed from a CZ 550 as well.
Oops, 50-thou longer case with the 500 Jeffery, won't work with the GSC HV with a 3.85" box.
Will need custom bullets or home re-sized bullets, except for the GSC FN commercial offering.
The Jeffery neck is already too short, about 2/3 of caliber IIRC,
and will get even shorter when necked down with same shoulder angle,
proportionally too short neck even for .408-caliber bullet.
I bet you have everything at your disposal to make a dummy round
Sorry, but I can't figure that one out with my meager make-do dies on hand.
400/500 Jeffery would be a pretty easy headstamp conversion.
It could use a jazzy name like 400 HT (Hammer of Thor)

Boomie, you are a sick man. Please get help.

I figured the slightly smaller case head of the Jeffery compared to the Gibbs parent case means you could shorten the 408 CT dies and use the Jeffery case to about 2.7ish and basically get a shorter 408 CT while maintaining your goal OAL for mag fed from a 550 CZ and having a larger capacity than the Lapua case. I figured about 150-155 grain capacity.

boom stick,

Besides the fact that 500 Jeffery brass is never going to match the quality of .338 Lapua Magnum brass,
you say I should cut off my .408 CT dies with a RotoZip Tool?
You are crazy man!

Look-see with un-cut die, just to humor a madman,
hoping to bring him back to his senses in a roundabout way:



Sketch of what the neck would look like if 500 Jeffery is necked down to .408, maintaining the 500 Jeffery shoulder angle,
shoulder distance from base,
and overall case length:



Still mighty ugly neck, and the rebated tail of the case is too. Definitely not worth a small gain in case capacity.
I can make that up with pressure in the 400 Bateleur, low or high as desired.
Less recoil for whatever performance attained also.

No flies on the 400 Bateleur, which can be loaded "long-nose" for Rigby-length action
or "short-nose" for H&H-length action:





Earth calling boom stick: Are you back to reality yet?

400 Bateleur:
This is really a lot like the 398 Lapua Magnum, but with more common bullets and barrels.
.408 is bigger than .395, bigger is better,
so why not just do a .416/.338 Lapua Magnum, like the egg laying the chicken?
Well, at least I am feeling less crazy than boom stick.
But that is not saying much for myself.
Putting a 20-degree shoulder on the .416 Rigby will improve it.
Ah ha! Just another egg laid by the chicken!
Ah, well, being good is its own reward, but the 400/500 Jeffery is not "good" like the 400 Bateleur is good.
I hear eagles screeching again ... gotta go.

quote:

so why not just do a .416/.338 Lapua Magnum, like the egg laying the chicken?

Why not? Quality brass. About 12 grs more volume than the 416 RemMag. Loaded cartridge easily fits within a 3.6" magazine. What's not to like?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

so why not just do a .416/.338 Lapua Magnum, like the egg laying the chicken?

Why not? Quality brass. About 12 grs more volume than the 416 RemMag. Loaded cartridge easily fits within a 3.6" magazine. What's not to like?

Right.
But I have this .408 barrel,
and a bunch of bullets resized from .416 to .408,
and the GSC .408 HV and FN are perfect for 400 Bateleur,
and the 400 Bateleur burns less powder than a .408 Chey-Tac,
and I really don't NEED another .408 Chey-Tac as much as I NEED a 400 Bateleur,
and a .416 Bateleur would only split the difference of other .416s in the rack already,
and, and ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

so why not just do a .416/.338 Lapua Magnum, like the egg laying the chicken?

Why not? Quality brass. About 12 grs more volume than the 416 RemMag. Loaded cartridge easily fits within a 3.6" magazine. What's not to like?

Right.
But I have this .408 barrel,
and a bunch of bullets resized from .416 to .408,
and the GSC .408 HV and FN are perfect for 400 Bateleur,
and the 400 Bateleur burns less powder than a .408 Chey-Tac,
and I really don't NEED another .408 Chey-Tac as much as I NEED a 400 Bateleur,
and a .416 Bateleur would only split the difference of other .416s in the rack already,
and, and ...

Is there further need needed!

Well RIP has not done a 408-9,3x62 or 408 Whelen yet

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Well RIP has not done a 408-9,3x62 or 408 Whelen yet

Well...neither was a historical commercial or wildcat offering...

Now regarding the .408 caliber, you could go with the original specification for the 40 Newton and be historically correct. Performance would just be slightly less power than the .416 Ruger but definitely more than the 400 Jeffery.

But you're still looking primarily at CNC machined or resized bullets...

40 Newton on steroids: 400 Bat

I cheated a little and made the free-bore diameter 0.001" greater than bullet diameter. That is a whopping 0.0003" increase,
so I can have the option of using cast lead bullets too.
Compromised just a tiny bit:



Above sketch was drawn to scale using graph paper and indelible markers, no rulers used.
Please excuse the shakes.

The rest of the cartridge is specified by making it exactly like the .338 Lapua Magnum below neck-1,
where neck-1 diameter for the 400 Bat is .443".

Neck length is 0.396" at maximum brass length of 2.700", IIRC.

That throat specification ought to work fine loaded long, wonder what effect it'll have when loaded to 3.6" COAL?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
That throat specification ought to work fine loaded long, wonder what effect it'll have when loaded to 3.6" COAL?

That remains to be seen, fingers crossed, however:

The whole point of the ".375 Wby throat meets Walterhog bullet" discussion/demo above was that
it worked fine for a bullet that had to jump the entire throat, and still shot .132 MOA for three shots.

Same would apply to the GSC HV that has C.O.L. 3.810", but must jump the entire throat before becoming engaged in the rifling:
Long, sub-caliber noses.

Definitely will be interesting to see how it turns out. We know 50% of caliber works great and we know 246% doesn't. Yep, it'll will be interesting to see how 121% of caliber at 3.58" COAL works...

Jim,
This is 98.8%, i.e. 99% of caliber in length of PS-free-bore: .403" in a .408-caliber barrel
That relative length of free-bore has been proven many times in the .375 Wby.
Compromises make for use of all kinds of bullets, short and long in bearing surface, short and long in C.O.L.
Worth the risk.

.375 Weatherby (and hopefully 400 Bateleur) "Throat Theme Song":

"We Are the Champions"

I've paid my dues
Time after time
I've done my sentence
But committed no crime
And bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sand
Kicked in my face
But I've come through

And we mean to go on and on and on and on

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World

I've taken my bows
And my curtain calls
You brought me fame and fortune
And everything that goes with it
I thank you all
But it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise
I consider it a challenge before
The whole human race
And I ain't gonna lose

And we mean to go on and on and on and on

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions
---
Lyrics powered by LyricFind
written by Mercury, Freddie
Lyrics © EMI Music Publishing
Read more at http://www.lyrics.com/we-are-t...#JUdlMdTb9MH0X0dZ.99

Yep - didn't pay close enough attention...

Jim,
Nay, thou payest astute attention!
The Queen of Throats has often been questioned.
She said "Let them eat cake," knowing full well it is possible to have her cake and eat it too,
with the Queen of Throats.
There is absolutely no sense losing one's head(s) over this throat.
I think it will handle an assortment of bullet heads just fine.
Deep Throat talks.
No, my coffee has not been adulterated.

quote:

No, my coffee has not been adulterated.

Ah, but what were those bean cooked in??? Perhaps a water substitute used in the brewing process???

400 Bateleur throat length plus CZ 550 Magnum box length are both barely long enough to allow this flexibility:

385-gr GSC FN short-nosed seating: FN solids feed flawlessly when loaded this short.
370-gr GSC HV long-nosed seating with long jump to lands, short bearing surface.
350-grain Barnes TTSX long-nosed seating with short jump to lands, long bearing surface.

This desrves a little Buffalo Trace in my coffee.

I guess this one will be called the 40-14, "Forty Fourteen."
The rifle so chambered will be called "Queen" or "Freddy Mercury."

quote:

The rifle so chambered will be called "Queen" or "Freddy Mercury."

quote:

Freddy Mercury

Just teasing Jim, I did not even know how to spell "Freddie Mercury."
I just knew he was born in Zanzibar, Tanzania, and the locals are mighty proud of that.
About like Johnny Depp being born in Kentucky.
Johhny speaks with a fake British accent all the time now, puttin' on airs since he bought his own private island in the Carribean,
with proceeds from toy sales.
Good pirate fun, ARRRHHG!

I wonder if his next movie is going to be as big a flop as his last?

"Johnny Depp Looks Like Jack Nicholson in His Movie Makeup!"

Never heard of Freddie Mercury till you mentioned him and I looked him up online. Regarding naming your rifles, I could never guess what you’d call them. LOL…

That looks like Bill Paxton decked out in “Nicholsonish” garb, but if it is Depp – neither would pass for the real thing. I think Depp’s about run the pirate thing into the ground, definitely time to move on in life…

Bill Paxton played a sorry McCoy in this one:



Now, as we were, this is about a 400 Bateleur not 2 battlers.
Free-associatin' self-highjack off.
I hear an eagle screeching again.

Yes he was pretty wimpy.
10-4, thread jack off...
Back to the bird 400...