It seems that I can't find 458 Win brass anywhere but I can get Lott brass is there any reason other than different head stamp that I can't buy the Lott brass and trim it down to 2.50 thanks Jim

No reason u could not do the conversion but I would think if u posted on some of the forums , like this one, u would get some trade offers, Lott for winnie

We make a lot of brass to fit other cartridge we do not have brass for.

As long as you can make it fit properly, that is all that counts.

Some cases require a lot of work, others not so much.

One of the hardest to make brass for is the 300 Phoenix.

I am unaware of commercially available brass for it, and it is based on a shortened 338 Lapua Magnum case.

It has to be shortened, reamed, necked down and neck turned!

A lot of trimming.

Normally with that much shortening you have a file trim die. The case is cut off where it sticks out of the die and then hit with the file.

Less trouble to find 458 Winchester brass.

thanks for the info

I probably have some 458 Win. cases and bullets. email me if interested..trade or sell.
Ray

I'll join the consensus that .458 Win Mag brass is in very short supply nowadays, but thankfully it can be formed from pretty much any standard belted case. You just need to anneal the shoulder and neck then fireform the cases to blow them out straight, then trim. Some folks also recommend annealing again after the fireforming.

Great idea, converting .458 Lott into .458 WIN MAG brass works just fine.
Whack a quarter inch off of the obsolete .458 Lott brass
with hacksaw, mini-chop saw, or one of these ...



... then finish up with your usual precision case trimmer or file-trim die.
Rubber vise jaws work well with the hack work.

Ditto other suggestions above.
Note:
.458 WIN V (for "Victorious") 3.4", 3.6" and 3.8" versions may all be called ".458 WIN+P" for simplicity.

The "+P" refers to allowable increased maximum average PRESSURE to same as that of the .458 Lott even with 3.340" COL,
or to increased POWDER charge allowed by loading to longer COL than 3.340",
or "+P" = increased POWER,
greater than a .458 Lott,

or best of all ".458 WIN+P" = .458 Winchester Magnum PERFECTION.

.458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM PERFECTION

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Tradition nomenclature would make that a 458 Lott 2 1/2”

Why not just buy some .458 Win rounds, fire them for practice and then you have brass.

I had to do that for .450 3.25 NE as brass can't be found anywhere (other than very expensive Bertram brass).

Tanks, if I was in need asap then I might do that at twice the price to do so but I can wait or cut down Lott brass and since I will probably never go to Africa the case head matching the rifle does not matter. I might wait for Hor. to get their act together and produce the 458 brass but thanks for the suggestion Jim

My suggestion would be to check out the various sites which sell once fired brass.

Diamond K, for instance, has a large supply of .300 Winchester Magnum brass, which would easily fire form into .458 Winchester, and the price is quite attractive.

I have neck expanding dies which will expand case necks from .308" to .458" in two steps, but I don't believe they are still available from RCBS. However, I would be glad to process 50 or 100 for you.

xausa, thanks but I think I will just cut up some Lott brass less hassle it is not worth going to all the other steps especially finding used brass

quote:

Originally posted by hydehunter:
xausa, thanks but I think I will just cut up some Lott brass less hassle it is not worth going to all the other steps especially finding used brass

Wise decision.
The neck wall thickness with obsolete .458 Lott brass cut down to 2.500" will be hardly any different from the .458 WIN brass of the same brand.

If anything, it will be thicker and stronger and no problem with chamber-brass tolerances.

Anneal it after you get it trimmed to 2.500" exactly, and it will be as fantastically beauteous as a Walterhog bullet.
It will last nearly forever.

Neck splits may occur in fire-forming .300 WIN to .458 WIN and the neck wall thickness will be less,
weaker.

.458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM PERFECTION

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

As above.

Apart from splitting cases you might find the brass in the shoulder area and top of the case in a 300 Winchester is too thick.

Long bullets loaded in the 458 Lott at 3.6" OAL would already protrude into the case section that would form the top of a 458 Winchester made from cut of 458 Lott cases.

Just for interest's sake: When I purchsed my first .458 Win Mag (M77 Ruger), I had to wait for used brass to arrive from Western Canada -- about two weeks. In the meanwhile, I picked some once fired .416 Remington brass from the trash barrel at our range, cut off the neck, used a .458 neck reamer and loaded up some Hornady 500gr SPs. They worked great until my .458 Win brass arrived!

The CZ550 .458 was a different story: the emporium had lots of new Win brass on hand. They also had Lott brass that was more expensive. Mike, the manager told me that the .458 Win cases were outselling the Lott brass by 10 to 1. That was in 2007. I've still been using up those cases in my Ruger #1 until recently when I purchased some new Hornady brass that was ordered for me from somewhere in Western Canada again!

I guess the .458 Winchester Magnum is, after all, more popular than the Lott here in Canada.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bob

Just out pf curiosity, I tried my method on some 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum cases. It took three different expanding dies, 7mm to .338, .338 to .375 and .375 to .458, but both attempts worked. I lost one case to a split neck, from failure to lubricate the neck before the last stage, but the rest of the cases survived. The 7mm cases ended up slightly short (2.440-2.450")and the .300 cases (2.565-2.570") will need to be trimmed, but both are useable.

I miked the necks for thickness and found that the necks varied from .011" to .0125" in thickness, with most in the .0115" to .012" range, which is pretty uniform even by new brass standards. Both the original 7mm Magnum case neck and the original .30 Magnum case neck measured .013-.014".

With .458 Lott brass going for over $1.00 a round where available, the Diamond K offer of 100 rounds of R-P guaranteed once fired .300 Winchester Magnum brass for $55.00 sounds pretty good, with mixed lots of various head stamp brass going for even less.

xausa makes it work with more variable brass.
Still not as good as the uniformity of cut-off .458 Lott brass.
Bob's cut-off .416 Remington will do also.
Mike's comment about neck wall thickness in the .458 Lott is good.
The ironic humor of a shortening a .458 Lott case to 2.5" is more than worth the extra pennies per case.
Irony is the pinnacle of humor.
.458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM PERFECTION

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Jack Lott made .458 Lott brass by firing 2.850" .375 H&H brass in his wildcat chamber,
by using a heeled/rebated bullet.
Either a .458 bullet turned down to .375" at base,
or even a .452" .45 ACP bullet of any sort.
Just need to plug the case mouth with something and blow it out inside the .458 WIN.MAG. chamber.
Cream-O-Wheat and a wax or lube plug over enough Unique might do.
Might get an imprint of the end of chamber (chamber mouth) on the brass at 2.520" length if you use enough powder.
Hack it off at about 2.520" length,
FL size and neck-expand, and then precision trim it to 2.500".
It would be a heck of a lot better than the old original .458 Lott wildcat brass,
thicker neck wall.
.375 H&H brass is cheap and plentiful.

.458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM PERFECTION

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Whatever you do, don't follow my example. I was fire forming some .400/.284 brass one day, using a light load of Unique, Cream of Wheat, and colloidal graphite wads together with .40 caliber round balls. I would drop a ball into the chamber, where it would be held up by the lands and insert the case behind it, then point the rifle down range and fire. Voila! perfectly formed cases!

This came to a screeching halt when, unbeknownst to me, I dropped an undersized ball into the chamber, which was not held up by the lands, but instead went half way down the barrel before stopping. When the round went off, it made an odd noise and upon closer inspection, I discovered a goose egg in the barrel where the ball had lodged.

Strangely enough, it did not affect the accuracy of the rifle or cartridge, but cosmetically it does look rather odd.

I thought of dove tailing it and using it to mount an open rear sight, al la pre-64 Model 70, but decided there wasn't enough metal in the barrel wall to allow for that.

Since that happened about 40 years ago I have not repeated that method of fire forming.

Pretty nice cartridge, though. Duplicates the ballistics of the .400 Whelen in a short action.

Bill,

That is a very instructive story.
I almost wish you would post a picture of that barrel bulge, but that would be hard to unsee.
By how much did the barrel diameter swell at the bulge ?

Moral of the story: One loose ball can bulge a barrel. Check your balls.

.458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM PERFECTION

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

If I intended to keep the gun, Id invest in a file trim die and and a tapered crimp die..