Perhaps you have seen, but Winchester's web site shows/details their latest big bore model 70's in 375HH, 458WinMag, and 416Rem. Price is some 1200.00 retail. From pics and description, appears to be all business with basic checkering, wood and apparently a well done bedding system??

Does this mean the 416 Rem. is indeed not dead?

I wouldn't think the 416 Rem would be dead. What
Makes you think A new model Win. would outsel the 416 Rem.

What's the pricing on Rem. Mod. 700 in 416Rem??
Have not check lately, but their big bores are priced up there usually. Just curious.
martin

Seems dumb not to chamber it in 458 Lott.

I haven't seen the mod 700 in 416 on the remington website lately. As far as I know, Winchester will be the only major mfr making the 416 rem. Seems like the Rigby has been in vogue lately.

John

It would also appear that the new bedding system is a second recoil lug under the bbl. I have heard someplace before that that was a good idea.

John

Anyone know when these will be available or is this going to be a released 2010 but available mid 2011 thing

I just checked them out, they look great! Going off what the NC M70's are going for right now vs. MSRP, I'm guessing the African models will be 999-1099. Not a bad price, and it looks like they didn't skimp....2nd recoil lug, barrel band, decent looking sights (as far as I can see from the small pics at least) and the hooded front (I happen to like them)

Anyone else notice under one of the other model pages they're listing the 7 RUM? Easy 404 conversions, and MSRP is like 8 and some change. Whole helluva lot cheaper then picking up one of the New Haven 300 RUM's.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
It would also appear that the new bedding system is a second recoil lug under the bbl. I have heard someplace before that that was a good idea.

John

The last of the classic, new haven big bores had a recoil lug on the barrel, as well...

glad to see it...

Hey Rich, Looks like winchester is going to be making the 375HH again ... wanna bet me now that ruger will still be making the 375 ruger in 2013, 5 years from introduction?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
It would also appear that the new bedding system is a second recoil lug under the bbl. I have heard someplace before that that was a good idea.

John

John


The last of the classic, new haven big bores had a recoil lug on the barrel, as well...

glad to see it...

Hey Rich, Looks like winchester is going to be making the 375HH again ... wanna bet me now that ruger will still be making the 375 ruger in 2013, 5 years from introduction?

I have two classics, one in 375 H&H, one in 458 win, both new haven models. I'll have to check for the underbarrel log, I think they were mid 90's production, really don't shoot 'em much. The 416 Rigby gets the most range time. I half flirted with the idea of picking up a 416 rem so I could have a set, but I'm holding out to see if they will custom shop a 470 capstick again.

I didn't see any of the RUMs though, I've been itching to put together a 404 peep sight rifle....

John

if the pictures on the website are correct (notice I said IF) it looks like the rear swivel is changed to the standard, but the rear sight is WAY better. $1289 retail should put them on the street at around 1k. Nice to have them back.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

The last of the classic, new haven big bores had a recoil lug on the barrel, as well..

The recoil lug on the barrel goes way back and mounted in that position.

The stainless/synthetic did not have the barrel lug.

I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I just checked them out, they look great! Going off what the NC M70's are going for right now vs. MSRP, I'm guessing the African models will be 999-1099. Not a bad price, and it looks like they didn't skimp....2nd recoil lug, barrel band, decent looking sights (as far as I can see from the small pics at least) and the hooded front (I happen to like them)

Anyone else notice under one of the other model pages they're listing the 7 RUM? Easy 404 conversions, and MSRP is like 8 and some change. Whole helluva lot cheaper then picking up one of the New Haven 300 RUM's.

Milehigh

The 7mm RUM????? For REAL???? Not pulling our legs now are you? If so that means lot's of available actions for the 500 MDM!!! YIPPIE!!!!!!

Jeffe

I don't care about the 375/416 Ruger or certainly the 375 HH, but I sure do wish Winchester would modify an action proper and chamber the Ruger cartridges! Pipe dream I know, but boy that would open up a new world for me with a 50 MDM that Jim "Capoward" has put together, off the Ruger case, and lord knows what else one could do with that basic ruger brass!!!! HEH!!!!!!!!!

Michael

quote:

I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

I think competition is always good. I expect this will also put pressure on CZ. I like all three big rifles. I have two M70 and if they offer me something new, something I don't already have in a M70, M77 or CZ550 then I might be a buyer.

As to denting the sales of the 375Ruger, that I doubt. The appeal of the 375Ruger is the short, light, powerful, very handy all weather configuration. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone stepping up to that challenge - yet.

I think it will be tough for the 416rem. it does not have the provonance&history of the great Rigby. Now it has the Ruger to contend with. Then there is the 404J, loaded by Hornady, another sweet 40 just waiting in the wings for a builder to offer in a standard priced gun.

FWIW, I have yet to see a 416Ruger gun or ammo anywhere - and I have been keeping an eye out. Also seen one new and one used 375Ruger both sitting on the shelf for months.

I am at a loss to understand why Win is building either the 416Rem or 458WM. I think they would sell many more 404J and 458Lott.

This market is driven as much by the history, coolness factor and big is better, as it is by practical. And the new Ruger375 is very practical. Winchester is way behind the curve with 416Rem and 458WM.

To me, the new M70 is a one ctg offering- the 375HH. In 375 is just about right sized gun for the average buyer. Good weight for open sighted gun. A classic ctg and design.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

I hope so. I never understood why the .416 Rem wasn't more popular!

quote:

I never understood why the .416 Rem wasn't more popular!

Yes, but none the less, thats how it is. You would think Winchester (who ever they are Browning?) would be more market wise.

I wonder if they have the New Haven management team still in place?

I'm sure some of these other cartridges will be available in the next few years. I think the .375h+h,.416rem and the .458win are just the introductory offerings. At least thats what I'm hoping for

I have 2 of the model 70 Safari Classics, in 375 H&H and 458 Winny, however I also have the Ruger Alaskan in 375 and 416 Ruger. They are, to me rifles in different classes. One built for the safari of your dreams and the other the Alaskan adventure of your dreams, each with those desireable attributes that make them so. I don't look at them as competing brands at all. If I am planning a safari, I am not going to purchase a Ruger Alaskan or vice-versa. But that is how I look at it and I have a battery of rifles to show it. As for a Lott in the model 70, any good gunsmith can take care of that right quick so whats to complain about? If you want a 404J, get the UM version and do the rebarreling conversion. Its that simple and I have 2 UM model 70's that will see the conversions.

The .416 Remington is a great cartridge but I think there are two reasons why it didn't become more popular. First, right after Remington brought it out, Ruger brought out the .416 Rigby in their Safari Magnum and that really took the wind out of the sales of the Remington. Secondly, for the longest time, it has not been available in a CRF gun. That really, really hurt the Remington round in my opinion. The Model 70 is very popular and I am thinking a Model 70 in .416 Remington is going to be a very attractive choice for the guys that just love their Model 70s.

Couldn't find the most recent pricing of Rem. Custom Shop "african" 416Rem., but about a year ago I believe they were in the $3,000.00 range which seemed ridiculous.
The Rem's don't even come close to the value of the Ruger RSM's for me, but as mentioned this new Win.Mod.70 in 375HH and priced as it is will definitely put a dent in CZ's, Ruger RSM's, and others as well I would imagine. Local dealer has some good distributor connections and will visit with him tomorrow and check on delivery/shipments.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

I would like to think that since these where winchesters WORST selling line, that they will take market feedback ...

*I* think winchester will be adding the 375 and 416 ruger to their line up!

Doubt it? yeah, okay, they are still offering the RUM, aren't they? As well as the (boy it's not really dead) WSM line, TEN years after those were introduced ..

In fact, there was a 416 winchester -- ala 416 howell, that never was factory chambered .. They didn't care to make up a new market segment.

Beancounters, looking at ruger sales, will go "how many 416 remingtons were sold in the last 2 years... and how many 416 rugers ..?"

WHo wants to bet? Rich won't take me up on "the ruger won't be made in 5 years" bet ... Dave, Wanna bet that winchester will be offering the ruger carts, at least in the custom shop, PDQ ?

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I'm sure some of these other cartridges will be available in the next few years. I think the .375h+h,.416rem and the .458win are just the introductory offerings. At least thats what I'm hoping for

If by introductory offerings, you mean the exact same lineup they offered for about 15 years before New Haven closed, then yes.

Seems like a 470 Capstick special order M70 available only in super grade would be a winner also.



Chuck

When it comes right down to it. I believe it has been mentioned before. There are not a great % of rifles mfg above 30 caliber anyway. This happens to be a very unusual forum as that it African related for the most part and the larger bores come into te lime light. It is hardly main stream.
If priced competatively. I suspect Ruger and Win will share the majority of this under $1000.00 large/ medium bore market and CZ will get perhaps 10% but who really knows.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I just checked them out, they look great! Going off what the NC M70's are going for right now vs. MSRP, I'm guessing the African models will be 999-1099. Not a bad price, and it looks like they didn't skimp....2nd recoil lug, barrel band, decent looking sights (as far as I can see from the small pics at least) and the hooded front (I happen to like them)

Anyone else notice under one of the other model pages they're listing the 7 RUM? Easy 404 conversions, and MSRP is like 8 and some change. Whole helluva lot cheaper then picking up one of the New Haven 300 RUM's.

Milehigh

The 7mm RUM????? For REAL???? Not pulling our legs now are you? If so that means lot's of available actions for the 500 MDM!!! YIPPIE!!!!!!

Jeffe

I don't care about the 375/416 Ruger or certainly the 375 HH, but I sure do wish Winchester would modify an action proper and chamber the Ruger cartridges! Pipe dream I know, but boy that would open up a new world for me with a 50 MDM that Jim "Capoward" has put together, off the Ruger case, and lord knows what else one could do with that basic ruger brass!!!! HEH!!!!!!!!!

Michael

Michael,

Yup! Just double checked it. Its the "sporter" model that is under the Safari on the winchesterguns.com model page. Its listed as a new for 2010 offering!

I seen the 7mm ultra as well.

I figure it was a typo and they meant 7mm rem mag

Jeff, I'll take that bet. How about ten bucks says you will not see a Winchester chambered in .375 or .416 Ruger by 1/1/11?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

I would like to think that since these where winchesters WORST selling line, that they will take market feedback ...

*I* think winchester will be adding the 375 and 416 ruger to their line up!

Doubt it? yeah, okay, they are still offering the RUM, aren't they? As well as the (boy it's not really dead) WSM line, TEN years after those were introduced ..

In fact, there was a 416 winchester -- ala 416 howell, that never was factory chambered .. They didn't care to make up a new market segment.

Beancounters, looking at ruger sales, will go "how many 416 remingtons were sold in the last 2 years... and how many 416 rugers ..?"

WHo wants to bet? Rich won't take me up on "the ruger won't be made in 5 years" bet ... Dave, Wanna bet that winchester will be offering the ruger carts, at least in the custom shop, PDQ ?

Milehi

Could not believe it! I had not been over to the site in a very long time nor worried with it. Since I read what you posted, I too went over, and there it was. Under Sporter just as you said! I suppose someone at Winchester has a hardon for 7mm RUM! What an odd strange thing to do! If they do it, then I am pleased. That action is very very modified when compared to standard long action. Very modified to retain that big fat RUM in the magazine. Will be perfect for all 404 based cartridges, and RUM based cartridges, including my 500 MDM. Will also work with the Ruger basic too! So that may be the proper answer for a 50 MDM when they become available. Long live the RUM case! 7mm? How odd? Anyway, I had Winchesters built from the run of 300RUMs in 338 RUM, 358, 9.3, and of course the 500 MDM. Fine rifles they are too!

7mmRUM? How puzzling however! I don't get it? Well, long as they do it, I suppose I don't care, anyone want any 7mm barrels? I would just trash them, have zero use for such a thing!

HEH.

Heym, hope you are wrong!

Michael

Michael,

When you click on all the other models the 2 new offerings are 7mm rem mag and 338 win mag.

The only exception is the sporter model where they list the 7mm ultra and 338 win mag

Heym

I know, I know, you are exactly correct on that point! I saw the same! Like I said, I hope you are WRONG because of the reasons I stated. Something that might suggest you are correct, possibly a typo or something, is the very fact "WHY A 7MM RUM?" Makes no sense to me, but that's just me?

Michael

Michael,

It's not about being right I'm one of those guys that wish you could get any cartridge in any gun

I'm just glad Winchesters back!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Jeff, I'll take that bet. How about ten bucks says you will not see a Winchester chambered in .375 or .416 Ruger by 1/1/11?

I'll cover that!

Heym

Me too My Friend, Me too. You know it's Winchester or nothing with me!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Seems like a 470 Capstick special order M70 available only in super grade would be a winner also.



Chuck

I'd place my order this afternoon!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

Makes since, since you now have true CRF rifles, unlike the Ruger African, which is a push feed in CRF clothing...

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I'd wager that a new model 70 in .375 H&H and .416 Remington will put a huge dent in sales of the .375 and .416 Rugers and go a long way to resurrecting the .416 Remington. What do you think?

Makes since, since you now have true CRF rifles, unlike the Ruger African, which is a push feed in CRF clothing...

That would be incorrect.

If you put a round in the mag and work the bolt, it is CRF on the later markII (and all ruger africans).. AND you can snap over, like a pushfeed ..

which one CAN do with a mauser, by either the "pinch" or modifying the extractor face to slip over.

the original "mark i" and the VERY first mark II where pushfeeds with a huge extractor ... a dremel tool can turn the early markII into a CRF ..

let's be CLEAR -- one in the mag, push teh bolt forward, slides under the extractor and is CONTROLLED all the way in is a CRF .. a PUSHFEED never puts it under the extractor.

being able to do both doesn't preclude it from being a CRF ..
and LOTS of people PAY to make a CRF that can't "pushfeed" into one that can.

Glad to hear Winchester will again be producing a Mdl 70 in .416Rem. An exceptional round in a great rifle. Mine has taken Hippo, Eland and a half dozen Buff without a problem.

Based on what I have seen out of my new M70's from South Carolina, these new ones will be very accurate and very well made.