quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:

quote:

In the end, I think the .375 Ruger will fare as well as the .416 Reminton has.

Dave

Dave

There are a couple of differences. Firstly there is just something about Remington and big bores.

Secondly, I will bet the vast majority of big bores are purchased and used as toys. 416 has the problem with a lack of Hornadys etc as compared to the 375 bore.

Thirdly, in the smaller calibres Ruger is a much bigger seller than CZ. However, the CZ was the cheap wood 375 so had somewhat of a cornered market but now there is Ruger in wood and for a lot of people Made in USA has an attraction.

WbyPower:

Here is my take on this whole .375 debate.

Whether the .375 Ruger ultimately succeeds or not is not dependent on merits of the cartridge. There are all kinds of great cartridges that didn't make it in the marketplace. Witness the 8mm Remington Magnum. I personally regard the 8 Mag. as maybe the best elk/moose/ plains game caliber ever but it is now all but defunct. We know the .375 Ruger is a good cartridge. It will do eveything the H&H will do and for the past 100 years the H&H was widely regarded as the best of the medium bores, right? Its' success will depend on the number of actions it is chambered in. The best evidence of that is the success of Ruger's stainless synthetic for Alaska. They fit a market niche and will sell well for awhile. However, I doubt that Remington will jump on the band wagon. After all, why would they help sell a Ruger development when they have their own .375? The best hope for the .375 Ruger cartridge is if Winchester can get the Model 70 going again and if they chamber it. However, that is a double edged sword for Ruger. If that happens, it will surely canabilize sales of the Ruger Hawkeye. Given the choice, I think most hunters would select the Model 70 over the new Ruger.

Like Mac, I think most of the guys headed for Africa will probably stick with the H&H. There are a plethora of reasons for that choice. First, most of this group already have an H&H. Secondly, tradition has a strong pull for the African bound hunter. They want to hunt with the guns that John Taylor and Robert Raurk used. Finally, there is the world wide availability of H&H ammo and that is especially so in Africa.

The one thing that the Ruger has going for it is that it is available in a controlled round feed action and that is a big plus that will help it along.

Dave

what Dave said!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

In the latest issue of Guns & Ammo, they ask Steve Hornady about the Ruger Compact Magnum concept:

" G&A: Given the success of the .375 Ruger, it's no surprise that you have..." yada, yada, yada.

My question is, who has determined this newcomer to be a SUCCESS after such a short time? The child-like minds of the G&A editors? The limited amount of gun sales? ammo sales? Media hyped reviews by gunscribe whores?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Its' success will depend on the number of actions it is chambered in.

like the RUM and WSM? sorry, invalid.

quote:

The best evidence of that is the success of Ruger's stainless synthetic for Alaska. They fit a market niche and will sell well for awhile.

More guys from the US go to alaska and other bear zones than go to alaska, every year. Based off dollars of costs.

quote:

However, I doubt that Remington will jump on the band wagon. After all, why would they help sell a Ruger development when they have their own .375?

Poor logic - remingotn sells 375HHs as well. Nonsequitor

quote:

The best hope for the .375 Ruger cartridge is if Winchester can get the Model 70 going again and if they chamber it.

Totally disagree - If savage, browning, or CZ also overed it... wait, JUST LIKE the WSM and RUM line... and Winchester offered all os those, including the rum, and it is NOW a miserible failure. Poor predictor of success

quote:

However, that is a double edged sword for Ruger.

Oh, dave... really? just exactly how does ruger's investment in a case get under cut by someone else chambering for it? What, the more fame in the field, the more users having access to it, the more brass and ammo demand? Hmm, seems like a win win for ruger, as the MONEY IS IN THE ACCESORIES

quote:

If that happens, it will surely canabilize sales of the Ruger Hawkeye.

Never happen to any signifcant percentage. People are generally brand name loyal.. which is why winchester could sell a PUSHFEED ...

quote:

Given the choice, I think most hunters would select the Model 70 over the new Ruger.

Sorry, Dave, based off WHAT? If the ruger is 800 bucks, and the next alternative CRF is going to what? TO DAY - No other choice, lets assume winchester comes back into production of the model 70... $1200 bucks... Yeah, they won't be selling alot of those at wallyworld, the US's largest retailer of firearms. A savage at 600, or a remington at 700-800? Its brand loyalty leveraged from ready cash.. same it ever was. This is why people buy chevy vs ford, at different price points, for no DECERNABLE specification differences.

quote:

Like Mac, I think most of the guys headed for Africa will probably stick with the H&H.

I dont, I think most guys headed to africa will take either something smaller or larger, just like they are doing in the african forums today

quote:

There are a plethora of reasons for that choice.

You are leveraging an opinion, without substance.

quote:

First, most of this group already have an H&H. Secondly, tradition has a strong pull for the African bound hunter.

Like the 458 Lott? Which is CZ leading product in big bores... and CZ sells the MOST CRF big bores in the USA today.. no joke

quote:

They want to hunt with the guns that John Taylor and Robert Raurk used.

416 Rigbys?

quote:

Finally, there is the world wide availability of H&H ammo and that is especially so in Africa.

Yeah, right... at what cost? this is like saying the "blue one" is better

quote:

The one thing that the Ruger has going for it is that it is available in a controlled round feed action and that is a big plus that will help it along.
Dave

And that it is 50% the cost of a winchester in 375HH today (previous production) and 1/2 the cost of an RSM..

In fact, the ONLY head to head CRF competition based off price point is the CZ 375HH...
Which is both too heavy and too long for a 375, and does not have a 3 position safety. The CZ can hold 2 more rounds than the ruger... and if you need SIX rounds to kill a critter, you need to spend more time at the range.

All in all, luddittes are trying to put a cap in the ruger.. without ever having shot one.


Let's talk about all the guys whining about cutting up mauser actions to make 375 HH and how "they wouldn't do it, it's not safe" .. Wow, ruger solves that

Lets talk about short actions... somewhere, there is someone that will say a shorter action is better for short strokin ... yeah, well, if they feel that way, the ruger is shorter.

let's talk about building a semi custom gun, which is the bulk of all "custom" guns... a "proper" action to build a 375 HH length round has a huge financial impact over the cost of one to build a 3.35" round on.. period, the end.

So, wow, the ruger could be loaded
in a shorter action
(at 2500fps) with lower pressure (note - someo will argue this point.. if you load the ruger case to 2500 fps, it will be LOWER pressure than the smaller HH case.. they are loaded to EXACTLY the same pressure for spec loads, which the ruger goes faster)
is a rebarrel away from a 300win

Hornady ammo costs 1/2 of federal

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Let's talk about all the guys whining about cutting up mauser actions to make 375 HH and how "they wouldn't do it, it's not safe" .. Wow, ruger solves that

Lets talk about short actions... somewhere, there is someone that will say a shorter action is better for short strokin ... yeah, well, if they feel that way, the ruger is shorter.

let's talk about building a semi custom gun, which is the bulk of all "custom" guns... a "proper" action to build a 375 HH length round has a huge financial impact over the cost of one to build a 3.35" round on.. period, the end.

So, wow, the ruger could be loaded
in a shorter action
(at 2500fps) with lower pressure (note - someone will argue this point.. if you load the ruger case to 2500 fps, it will be LOWER pressure than the smaller HH case.. they are loaded to EXACTLY the same pressure for spec loads, which the ruger goes faster)
is a rebarrel away from a 300win

Hornady ammo costs 1/2 of federal

I made all these comments on a gun forum run by a moffie who's name rhymes with "twat" (if you didn't know how to pronounce his name properly) and I got banned for being sensible.

Like people told me, "even if you're right, arguing on the internet just makes you look retarded."

Funny thing about the posts you and I make are neither of us are sponsored by gun manufacturers or retailers.

Personally I have nothing against Rooger, but the .375 Roooger answers a question that no one asked. Is it supposed to be an advantage to have an action that is 1/8" shorter than a model 70? Not for me.

Price-wise if Ruger's .375s are less than other makes but equal in quality then of course they are likely to sell more. But in that case it is the low price that is selling the rifle, not the alleged superiority of the cartridge.

Also, who would want an RSM in .375 H&H? The action is too big for the .375 H&H, having been designed for the 416 Rigby.

However, I doubt that Remington will jump on the band wagon. After all, why would they help sell a Ruger development when they have their own .375?

Dave,

Remington does the WSMs while having their SAUMs.

The best hope for the .375 Ruger cartridge is if Winchester can get the Model 70 going again and if they chamber it. However, that is a double edged sword for Ruger. If that happens, it will surely canabilize sales of the Ruger Hawkeye. Given the choice, I think most hunters would select the Model 70 over the new Ruger.

I agree on the Model 70 to a certain extent. The Model 70 is a more attractive rifle for sure but with 375 H&H the M70 goes hand in hand with the 375 H&H. That won't be the case with the 375 Ruger and I don't think there is any reason to think the split between Ruger and M70 in 375 Rugers would be any different to the split in 270 Win, 7mm Rem, 300 Win etc.

Secondly, tradition has a strong pull for the African bound hunter. They want to hunt with the guns that John Taylor and Robert Raurk used. Finally, there is the world wide availability of H&H ammo and that is especially so in Africa.

Agree with you on Africa. However, if America is anything like Australia then the number of 375 H&Hs purchased to go to Africa is extremely small...in fact very small for any big game. On the other hand most keener shooters have that "be ready for everything at any time" about them.

Personally, I think the 375 Ruger will butt heads with the 338 Winchester. If the 375 Ruger is chambered in rifles in the way a 338 is, that is 7mm Rem pricing and in rifles that don't chamber 375 H&H such as the Wby Vanguard, then I think the 375 Ruger will be a bigger thing in new rifles than the 375 H&H.

The 375 H&H will forever remain the choice in the higher grade rifles, especially custom guns. I think Ruger themselves have already said that by their own rifle offerings in the two cartridges.

What will help the 375 Ruger get going (as was the case with 300 Winchester and 7mm Rem) is the easy conversion of existing M70s, Rugers, Vanguards and so on.

America is the biggest civilian gun market outside of military markets.

You want to sell .375 Ruger? Make it work in an autoloader like the .338 does.

Now that would be entirely too cool -- an AR-10 in 375 Ruger for pig culls...

An AR-10 type rifle would probably be abit heavy for most hunters but I'll bet the Spec-Ops community would have a field day with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Now that would be entirely too cool -- an AR-10 in 375 Ruger for pig culls...

Dad is bugging me about having a machine shop and slacking of late cos I've been whinging about nothing. It could happen. Not that much of a stretch from Grendel. I got a good place to beta test pigs for ballistics porpoises. Over up east of you by Alexandria. I seriously might figger out how to do it cos I can't see why not.

Got to finish this bloody .375 flanged and my .223 AI pistol before I can start another stupid idea that will be fun.

Jeff, you make some excellent points. I think the Ruger is a fine cartridge and perhaps 20 years from now we will look back and see that it did indeed displace the venerable .375 H&H.

I am sort of out of this debate. While I have a .375 H&H, in a medium bore, I have really come to prefer the 9,3X62. If you prefer the Ruger cartridge, I did not mean to offend your selection in any way.

Dave

Dave,
I want to be certain that i haven't offended you.. i re-read my post, and it might have come in over the top.. no offense meant, at all.. just meant to have a spirited debate on the matter...

i don't believe it will displace the HH ... i do, however, think it will have significant sales, and as it is a new case, it will be here for quite awhile.. like the 284, as a worst case.

I don't believe it's a flash in the pan... i think it fits a neato niche...

the HH is a great round.. but, like a ford or a chevy, some folks buy a dodge

Cant argue with Jeffos logic.

For the small proportion of 375hh owners that trek Africa they are well covered.by all means stay with your 375hh.no one is forcing you to change anything.
But for the many folks that do alot around USA and north to Alaska, and still love and appreciate the virtues of the std.m98
a factory 375"taylor"Ruger round is good great
and benefit of typical375hh vel. at lower pressures for older metallurgy m98actions,dats smart tooo

some people hunt with singleshot .375 rifles, others feel they need 6 rounds, 3+1 is probably plenty good for many out there.
Why be so concerned about what the neighbor drives?

If a large Australian gun forum is any guide then it would appear that the 375 Ruger will get some sales from people who will make their first jump to an "over 30 calibre". My guess is the 338 has not been a big enough jump and the 375 H&H rifles have not appealed to these shooters.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I'd buy a Marlin Guide Gun, and shoot 500gr bullets about 1800fps...Brian Pearce killed two Cape Buffalo with one shot with that sort of load.

You can't do that with the 375R, and you'll never work the bolt and get a second shot off as fast as I can empty the Marlin.

I predict Ruger will sell less than one-thousand of them by end of 2008.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich,

I believe you’re right and let see what happen in a couple of years, it would not amaze me that the cartridge will follow the pad of misfortune like several WSM – WSSM- SAUM – RUM and other Super Duper Maxi Magnums.

Maybe I’m wrong, time will tell.
Roland

quote:

Originally posted by Roland1:

I believe you’re right and let see what happen in a couple of years, it would not amaze me that the cartridge will follow the pad of misfortune like several WSM – WSSM- SAUM – RUM and other Super Duper Maxi Magnums.

Maybe I’m wrong, time will tell.
Roland

If some numbnuts in Texas figures out how to make it feed reliable in an AR pattern rifle, I bet people would pick it over the .338 Browning autoloaders.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Cant argue with Jeffos logic.

For the small proportion of 375hh owners that trek Africa they are well covered.by all means stay with your 375hh.no one is forcing you to change anything.
But for the many folks that do alot around USA and north to Alaska, and still love and appreciate the virtues of the std.m98
a factory 375"taylor"Ruger round is good great
and benefit of typical375hh vel. at lower pressures for older metallurgy m98actions,dats smart tooo

some people hunt with singleshot .375 rifles, others feel they need 6 rounds, 3+1 is probably plenty good for many out there.
Why be so concerned about what the neighbor drives?

Woodjack:

The only problem I see with your reasoning is that there is really no need for a .375 in the lower 48 and there is just not that many of us that go to Alaska to hunt each year. Despite what you may glean from this board, the truth is that here in the USA sales of rifles over .30 caliber are pretty small. In Alaska and for those going to Alaska or Canada, the Ruger will be a good choice.

Dave

do you guys see Idaho and the Pacific Northwest as "different" in cartridge choices from the rest of the country? Our R&G Club has about 450 members. In twenty-nine years I have belonged I have never been to the outdoor range and not seen at least one 375H&H being shot...probably a third of them with over 2000fps cast bullet loads being tested. In the past summer I think I have seen about fifteen new CZ's. A lot of the hunters I know pack the H&H for antelope hunting on up, just in case a bear wanders by.
I always figured I could get by with a good bolt gun in 375H&H and my 4" Anaconda 45LC if need be. To get this market going the 375R would have to have been proven better, and that ain't likely.

The Ruger 375 is going to kill the .338WM sales, that is their best hope for commercial success.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich, Me thinks thou does't protest too much.

I predict that in a couple of years - once you have given in and actually tried one - you will think it is the greatest thing since the invention of the brass case.

never say never, after all the Pope was a polack!

I'm too tight to replace a cartridge that does such a good job...remember, I own more rifles over 40 caliber than under.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Hello chaps

Yeah down here the 375 Ruger has created a interest as well, so much that I have ordered 4 for the company for use in Moz and a African for myself,

Added too that I must say that I used a338 Ruger this year a helluva lot, with 275 gr Speers and 300 Gr Woodleigh, and it worked like a charm 14 Hippos can attest too that and a couple of croc's as well

But I would say the 375 Ruger is here too stay, just too much talking and advertising for it too flop

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
do you guys see Idaho and the Pacific Northwest as "different" in cartridge choices from the rest of the country? ....I have never been to the outdoor range and not seen at least one 375H&H being shot....

The Ruger 375 is going to kill the .338WM sales, that is their best hope for commercial success.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost.../QUOTE]

Rich, Yeah, those choices are different.
I live in the the 4th largest city in america, and THE largest in terms of hunters (how many hunters live in NYC, LA, or Chicago?) ...

There are/where 4 major ranges in the area, basically NSEW corners ... I have shot at them all, and spent a good deal of time at them all, meeting with folks around town...

Other than the AR BigBore Shoot, I can count ON ON HAND then number of times I met someone at the range NOT WITH ME OR AR, that had a 375 or larger, in a big bore (not including 45/70s, 405 wins, or big bore pistols like the 500SW or 50 beowolf on an ar) .

In fact, I don't recall but a single 375,ruger #1 in 416 rigby, a 458winmag, a 458 lott and one double gun (465HH royal) .. but the gent with the lott is an AR member...

how in the heck do i know? Well, I know the range masters and range guys who come and see me when I am there, as I got them to like big bores.... and I get told when someone shows up with a bigbore... and the bigbore shooters tend to start at the 50 yards...

oh, yeah, and *I* restarted shooting off hand with rifles in houston, as this was a bench only town.

My home range is also the oldest still in operation in houston... a "big gun" there is a 338

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
do you guys see Idaho and the Pacific Northwest as "different" in cartridge choices from the rest of the country? Our R&G Club has about 450 members. In twenty-nine years I have belonged I have never been to the outdoor range and not seen at least one 375H&H being shot...probably a third of them with over 2000fps cast bullet loads being tested. In the past summer I think I have seen about fifteen new CZ's. A lot of the hunters I know pack the H&H for antelope hunting on up, just in case a bear wanders by.
I always figured I could get by with a good bolt gun in 375H&H and my 4" Anaconda 45LC if need be. To get this market going the 375R would have to have been proven better, and that ain't likely.

The Ruger 375 is going to kill the .338WM sales, that is their best hope for commercial success.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich:

Your experience has been somewhat different than mine.

Our club has about 250 members and the rage right now is "Cowboy Action Shooting." We get a fair number of guys shooting black powder, 45-70's, Rolling Blocks ahd High Walls but most of the shooting is done with traditional deer calibers like the .270, 30-06, 300 magnums and such. The .338 Win. Mag. is regarded as a cannon! In all the years that I have been shooting, I can't recall anyone shooting a .375 except myself and perhaps a buddy or two or mine. Down here in Nebraska, at least at my range, you just don't see that many guns over .30 caliber. There are about five or six of us who shoot the medium and large bore stuff and a .404 or .416 is regarded with awe. Perhaps it is my own perspective that causes me to think that ANY .375 is going to find a very limited market.

Dave

Dave and Jeffe,

That is quite interesting as to guns at your ranges.

Our main range is on the outskirts of Sydney. On a weekend there is every chance that there would be a 375 there and/or a Ruger 1/CZ/BRNO in 458. I was there a couple of weeks ago and apart from myself there was another 378 Wby. Also a 300 Wby Deluxe, 300 Wby Accumark and 300 Wby Ultra Light with the titanium nitride finish....3 different shooters with the 300 Wbys

Others that are frequently there are 300 RUM and 30/378 and the odd 338/378.

338 Winchester is hardly ever there. 416 "anythings" are never there. A few 460s will be there throughout the year.

300 Wby and 375 H&H dominate the "big guns". I am rating the 300 Wby as a big gun and the 300 Winchester a standard gun.

Heaps of 308s but 30/06 is rare.

On weekdays attendance is much smaller but there is a greater chance of big guns being there.

I doubt you'll see too many Europeans buying the .375 Ruger. I sense that Europeans only buy a .375 if they intend to hunt in Africa and I've never seen anything other than .375 H&H ammo, as far as .375 ammo goes, for sale in a gun store in France. I think it would be a safe bet that neither Reimer Johanneson nor Holland & Holland are going to jump on the Ruger bandwagon. Europeans buying new factory rifles in .375 will continue to buy CZs, Sakos and Winchester Model 70s if they want a big bore and I don't think any of them chamber the Ruger. I would guess the same of South Africans. If it becomes a success, it will be a purely American phenomenum.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I think the 375 Ruger cartridge will be a financial success unlike its similar, but beautifully engineered predecessor, the 35 Newton.

My rationale is that the Sturm Ruger team and Hornady both have excellent marketing departments and also have produced an excellent product. Presently, I have 50 cases from Midway USA some of which I have formed into 416 Ruger dummies that easily fit into a 1908 Mauser action with only a little modification.

From my perspective the 375 Ruger case is very well engineered and from the 50 cases I received, well made. I think the round will succeed quite well, since it is easily used in standard length actions, not just Ruger's, just like Jeff iterated.

As far as the rifle's acceptance, I believe, like Mr. Shoemaker that the price point, quality and effectiveness will make it a winner.

The only reason that I did not buy one, is because I am an unbridled and insane Mauser nut.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
Dave and Jeffe,

That is quite interesting as to guns at your ranges.

Our main range is on the outskirts of Sydney. On a weekend there is every chance that there would be a 375 there and/or a Ruger 1/CZ/BRNO in 458. I was there a couple of weeks ago and apart from myself there was another 378 Wby. Also a 300 Wby Deluxe, 300 Wby Accumark and 300 Wby Ultra Light with the titanium nitride finish....3 different shooters with the 300 Wbys

Others that are frequently there are 300 RUM and 30/378 and the odd 338/378.

338 Winchester is hardly ever there. 416 "anythings" are never there. A few 460s will be there throughout the year.

300 Wby and 375 H&H dominate the "big guns". I am rating the 300 Wby as a big gun and the 300 Winchester a standard gun.

Heaps of 308s but 30/06 is rare.

On weekdays attendance is much smaller but there is a greater chance of big guns being there.

WbyPower:

I would guess that caliber choice at the range is dictated in large part by the game available in your area. Here in Nebraska, most of the guys and gals are deer hunters. Hence, we see a lot of calibers appropriate for deer. We also see a lot of small bores for those guys hunting varmits like prairie dogs and coyotes. We are faily close to some good elk hunting so it is not unusual to see a .338 or one of the .300 magnums but, as I said, anything larger is fairly rare.

Dave

I think I know at least 75% of the big bore shooters in my neck of the woods personally. I shoot at 4 different ranges here in the Kootenays and shot at the one in Chetwynd many times while I was there. There are a little over a dozen guys that I know with 375's, 416's and/or 458 Win Mags (about 10, 3 and 4 for rifle numbers, respectively).

Unless I bump into them (or go with them) to the range, I almost never see anything bigger than a 300 Winnie or Wby. A 338 is a cannon to most guys. A guy I know with a 358 STA thought he owned the biggest rifle in the Kootenays! Heck, even my Dad ended up with an 8mm Rem Mag because he wounded an lost a moose with a 308 Win and upgraded to the "biggest gun in the whole store".

Despite the fact that we have hoardes of elk, moose and g-bear hunters, anything bigger than an '06 is considered "big". The vast majority of elk get shot with 270 Win, 7mm RM, 30/06, and 300 WM I'd guess.

If the people I know are any sort of gauge, there is little brand loyalty (ie. H&H loyalty) in these parts. Almost no-one here goes to Africa to hunt, so "nostalgia" is not a factor to most. It surely won't be what inhibits uptake of the 375 Ruger!

Cheers,
Canuck

Dave

The vast majority of those big bangers will be used for "varmint shooting" and with the varmints being kangaroos, pigs and goats

Actually most shooters out here are 223 users along with lots of 22/250s, 243s and the 270 and 308, with the 223 being easily the number one. Shooters in general in Australia see anything bigger than the 270 or 308 as a "toy" or a "gun nuts" calibre and hence the jump up to 300 Wbys, 30/378, 375 and the 378/458/460 area. 416 is dead because of a lack of bullets, unless of course someone is going to shoot buffalo.

Mike

Success in the North American market, yes. As mentioned earlier-must be produced by a number of other manufactures to be a true success world wide. Post this question again five years from now, until then pure speculation.
How are all of the WSM's doing today compared to the hype and number of sales of rifles chambered in these rounds three years ago?

quote:

If the people I know are any sort of gauge, there is little brand loyalty (ie. H&H loyalty) in these parts. Almost no-one here goes to Africa to hunt, so "nostalgia" is not a factor to most. It surely won't be what inhibits uptake of the 375 Ruger!

Chris

Apart from a few shooters in Australia who are right into 404 Jeffery/Mauser type thinking, what you said is ditto out here. I would expect the Ruger 375 to be more the choice than the CZ/375 and a big reason is Made in US and the general perception in Australia that the CZ is last resort material.

If you are blasting pigs, roos etc from a car you would be amazed how quick nostalgia and bullshit goes out the window

Mike

quote:

If you are blasting pigs, roos etc from a car you would be amazed how quick nostalgia and bullshit goes out the window

We have quite a few transplanted european hunters in Canada. Those guys on average seem to be the most "nostalgic" with firearms and cartridges and are the main reason you can even find a 9.3x62 in this country. They are not the only guys of course, but I believe most Canadian's brought up rural Canada don't think about "nostalgia" much or whether a particular cartridge is more "classy" than another.....its a tool...hell, I'd bet there are still about as many 303 British rifles shooting moose as there are '06s.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

We have quite a few transplanted european hunters in Canada. Those guys on average seem to be the most "nostalgic" with firearms and cartridges and are the main reason you can even find a 9.3x62 in this country. They are not the only guys of course, but I believe most Canadian's brought up rural Canada don't think about "nostalgia" much or whether a particular cartridge is more "classy" than another.....its a tool...hell, I'd bet there are still about as many 303 British rifles shooting moose as there are '06s.

The south eastern part of Australia is home to Australians that full on nostalgia. In fact that stae is where Woodleigh and Bertram are found. The are a lot of old English double rifles and English bolt actions down there. A lot of them came in from India.

Based on reading these forums I think getting a 404/505/Mauser would be easier to do in Australia than America.

There are still 303s used in Australia but I think the modern counterpart would be a Wby Vanguard in 308.

Apart from the totally opposite weather I would imagine Canada would be similar to Australia in many ways....small population on abig piece of dirt and the population concentrated into a few cities and the rest of the country being very sparsely populated.

Mike

And I forgot to mention...CZ's are bloody expensive ($1500) in this country because they are imported from Europe, not the US and the euro is still strong.

The Canuck-buck hit $1.10 USD this AM, so the Ruger is getting cheaper every day!!!

And we can't forget the "Gatehouse-effect". Gates moderates a BC hunting web forum and they all look up to him like a demi-God over there. All the women want him, and all the men want to be like him. I expect there is already a run on 375 Rugers just based on his nod of approval.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Apart from the totally opposite weather I would imagine Canada would be similar to Australia in many ways....small population on abig piece of dirt and the population concentrated into a few cities and the rest of the country being very sparsely populated.

I totally agree. We get a lot of Aussie's in these parts in the winter (to ski of course)...in my experience they seem to feel the same way...very similar culture on the whole, with some glaring differences (what the hell is Cricket?? or vegemite??)

c

And I forgot to mention...CZ's are bloody expensive ($1500) in this country because they are imported from Europe, not the US and the euro is still strong.

Winchester/Olin Australia imports CZs to Australia and from Europe.

In Australia Euro rifles, when compared to Rem 700, M70 and Ruger, are cheaper here than in the US because we are paying all the import costs and taxes on all of them.

Sakos are not much dearer than rifles like Remington Senderos etc.

Just about every CZ/BRNO I have seen has been 22 rimfire, Hornet, 375 and 458. There are 416 Rigbys here, just I have not seen one.

It is rare to see the Ruger Express rifle. With rifles that are more expensive than Rem 700/M70 they would be mainly Sakos and Wbys.

The standard Ruger rifles are much cheaper out here than either M70 or Rem 700.

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
Apart from a few shooters in Australia who are right into 404 Jeffery/Mauser type thinking, what you said is ditto out here. I would expect the Ruger 375 to be more the choice than the CZ/375 and a big reason is Made in US and the general perception in Australia that the CZ is last resort material.
Mike

Mike,
The CZ is a long heavy pig, pure and simple, particularly in 375H&H. It actually turns the average punter looking to get into a bigbore off. The "sporter" styling of the Ruger wins out easily. Even our good mate PC has finally admitted (after selling it ) his CZ550 in 375H&H was just too heavy.
Until these Ruger's ... the only reasonable sporter styled 375H&H's (all discontinued!!)were the Remington Safari Classics and Sako's Fiberclass synthetic/blued model; and perhaps the synthetic stocked Zastava's. I think in the 375Ruger ... the enthusiast bigbore shooter will acccept the slightly greater recoil from the lighter, easier to carry sporter ... but it starts to wear thin with say a 458WinMag.
Cheers...
Con

I guess -- my 375R Alaskan was tiring after 9 shots to sight it in -- but, that was probably w. in 45 min. and from a bench -- I never notice any discomfort while standing. (And, I saw an ad for a bench rest that can be used while standing, so I think that's going to be an early Christmas present for myself)

My Mark X 458 Win is unpleasant after about 6 shots, while standing -- but, I am a wimp when it comes to recoil.

Regarding what's seen on ranges:

Around Central Texas here, most of the people I know that like Big Bore stuff also have their own property with private rifle ranges. I haven't been to a public range to shoot in over a year because my friend a mile West of me has a 350 yard range with target holders from 50 out to 350.

He's better company than most and I don't have to make the hour and a half journey back and forth to a public range. Same reason he has his own range. Smallest non-handgun I've ever seen shot at his place is likely my .375 H&H.