The .395 black powder cartridges surely existed in the 1870's to early 1900's, hanging on as nitro for BP loadings such as the 400 Nitro for Black Powder 3-Inch, pictured in my signature line. The old BP .395's were chambered in rimmed cartridges, 2-3/8" to 3-1/2" long, for single-shots and doubles.

Somewhere around the turn-of-century, in the flurry of nitro Express cartridges starting in 1898 with the 450 NE, Purdey bastardized the .395-caliber "400" to a .405-caliber and ripped-off the aboriginal 400 to make it a fancy-pants "Light Rifle Express," or a "light express load" with the same old 230-grain lead bullet weight of the original 400 Nitro for Black powder 3": The 400 Purdey 3-Inch is a pretender, a poseur!

The 450/400 Nitro Express 3" also masquerades as the "400 NE."

There can be only one 400 NE and it has to have a .395 caliber bullet or it just ain't right in the natural order of the universe!

With all the POSeurs out there it is only natural that the rightful 400 NE should incorporate a .395 in its designation. All the pretenders are confused, but the real 400 NE wears a ".395" like a crown:

400/.395 Nitro Express: Let there be no confusion anymore. The King of the 400's has ascended to the rightful throne. RIGHTEOUS

Here is the 400/.395 NE side by side with the .395 Ruger Max, both loaded with SHark bullets, because they are so pretty:
400/.395 NE COL = 3.772"
.395 Ruger Max COL = 3.337"



The gunsmith has the parts. The world's first 400 /.395 NE or 400 Nitro Express Aboriginal
will soon be done, only 110 years late.

Better late than never.

Sorry if I wan't paying attention in class Doc!

But what rifle will be the luck donor for the revivalist 400/.395 Nitro Express??

Ruger No.1 for the N0.1 400NE, then of course Ruger will have to come to its senses and start making a double rifle on their Gold Label side-by-side. Perfect for this mighty mite!

8.5 pound double rifle with .395-caliber/400-grain bullet at 2150 fps.

Seriously, the Ruger No.1 will have a 27" barrel that is about 0.650" at the muzzle.
2150 fps with 410-grain cast bullet loads are first on the agenda for it. I am guessing 7.5 pounds for the weight of this elegant death stick.

Ladies and gentlemen alike will be infatuated by it.

Perfect Doc!!

RIP,

What is that a 9.3X74R case necked up to 0.395? If so you may have some difficulty getting a 410gr pill to 2150, have you run a simulation to get an idea if it is really possible?

400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3"):
.395-caliber/230-grain bullet
2050 fps
47-grain Cordite FL

400 purdey (3") Light Express AKA 400 Straight 3"
.405-caliber/230-grain bullet
2050 fps
47-grain Cordite FL

What a coincidence!

The current reamer is sized to fit Norma 9.3x74R brass that is.


Punching it out another silly millimeter and a half longer and increasing the neck diameter to .427" would make it fit the old 400 NFBP3" ammo.
That may be necessary if the Hornady brass is thicker in the neck than Norma, and one wishes to use the Hornady brass.

Hornady 9.3x74R brass is coming soon, so i am told.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
RIP,

What is that a 9.3X74R case necked up to 0.395? If so you may have some difficulty getting a 410gr pill to 2150, have you run a simulation to get an idea if it is really possible?

26.5" barrel
400-grain bullet
65.5 grains of RL-15 (compressed)
44,500 PSI
2155 fps
4135 ft-lbs

My 27" barrel will beat that!

No filler needed!!!

The modern 400 NE. Surely a modern double rifle can handle 45,000 psi?

That would be a handy package in a single-shot or a DR.

Sure beats a 45-70, or a .405!

Another simulation using the 340-grain GSC FN bullet above:

26.5" barrel
.395/340-grain bullet
62.7 grains XMP-5744 (compressed)
47,525 psi
2385 fps
4285 ft-lbs

Legal for DG anywhere with that one too!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Ruger No.1 for the N0.1 400NE, then of course Ruger will have to come to its senses and start making a double rifle on their Gold Label side-by-side. Perfect for this mighty mite!

8.5 pound double rifle with .395-caliber/400-grain bullet at 2150 fps.

Seriously, the Ruger No.1 will have a 27" barrel that is about 0.650" at the muzzle.
2150 fps with 410-grain cast bullet loads are first on the agenda for it. I am guessing 7.5 pounds for the weight of this elegant death stick.

Ladies and gentlemen alike will be infatuated by it.

I will buy one or two.

Looks like it will get the job done! Let us know how it turns out.

RIP,

What is your case volume? Based off of the Norma cases I would figure your volume to be around 84 to 90 gr of H2O (depending on whether you have old thin Norma or the newer thicker Norma cases). Should therefore run relatively close to the 416 Taylor (89-92gr), eh.

Good luck with the development.

I was assuming 86 grains H2O.
None for sale yet.
Still in the do-it-yourself phase.
Modernizing the 400 NE that should have been but never was: it will be "adequate" with modern powders and bullets.

Who is Abby Original? Is she related to Abby Normal?

Jim,
Thanks for the opportunity to emphasize this point.

"Aboriginal" is an English language adjective derived from the Latin aborigine, which means:

"From the very beginning; from the source or origin, e.g., the 400/.395 Nitro Express."

It says that in MY dictionary.

"Aborigine" when used in English usually refers to people who were the earliest known inhabitants of a country or geographical region.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Who is Abby Original? Is she related to Abby Normal?

I think everyone here on the Big Bore Forum is related to Abby Normal or we'd be up to something more mundane.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Who is Abby Original? Is she related to Abby Normal?

A young frankenstein refference...how apropo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnYNiCRbaeA&feature=related

FRAU BLUCHER!

Yeh, yeah, Marty Feldman's switcheroo with the brain of specimen "abnormal"/abbie-normal, was worth a chuckle or two, but let's please stay on topic here:

ABORIGINAL 400 NE: .395-caliber

well we are raising the .395 from the dead and putting it together with other "organs" to make a powerful killer by a mad Doctor(s)...

who gets to be i-gor

sorry rip

It will be fun to see the ol' 400 Nitro ride again in Africa but this time on the big 5!!! there...now we are on topic. all it took was 100 years of powder development and some gun cranks

Yes, prof242 is the other "Mad Doctor" on this project.

RIP stay on topic...

Hey, being linked with a mad genius aint bad. "What hump?" (sorry I love that movie)

Anyhoo so the 400 Nitro will have the same bore/capacity ratio as the good ol' 30-06! Cool. we are in good company.

Geez boomie "this project" is the topic: 400 NE Aboriginal, a .395 caliber.

The fact that you say 2 mad doctors are involved in it is merely a minor distraction. That's O.K., not really off topic, if we can get on with it and not do a full review of Young Frankenstein.

I was hoping to stir up the nay-sayers, who claim the .395-caliber 400 Nitro For Blackpowder 3-Inch never existed ...

Nobody?

I guess it is true.
.395 should have been the caliber of the 400 Nitro Express, aboriginally speaking.

Brass:
Alteration:
9.3x74R
9.3x74R
1 0.0x74R
10.0x74R

Stamp the barrel "10.0x74R" as well as "400/.395 NE." Then when 400/.395 NE headstamped brass is available everywhere in the best of all possible worlds, you will be ready for that too.

Or, the more ambitious engravers might want to go for more exact caliber metric designation: "10.03x74R"

OK OK, I've had the back of my AR hat embroidered with 400/.395 N.E., but do not plan on putting "aboriginal" on it. If anyone sees me at the Dallas show, I'll have a round of it, the .395 Max, and a few of the 309grain .395 SHark bullets in my pocket.

As soon as RIP's Ruger #1 is completed, my #1 goes off to be the #2 400/.395 made. Barrel, rifle, extras, all on hand and ready to ship off.
Max

My parts are at the smithy, as of yesterday.
Next I shall pester CH4D to see when the dies will be done.
Manson Precision Reamers: Dara zipped the headspace guages to me really quickly. I guess they found some 9.3x74R on hand, but they are something very quick and easy to make.

Max,
I see that boomstick fears that he will suffer "extended pinky finger lasting for more than four hours" over this one.
"Pria-pinky?"

boomstick,
If you don't quit fantasizing about the 400/.395 NE Aboriginal, and build one to relieve your pria-pinky, you are going to get Peyronie's Pinky: Cordite Chordee.

The boomer is farting around on another 400/.395 thread.

The 400/.395 NE addresses the correction of an historical wrong: deviation from the .395 caliber by 400 NE poseur cartridges.

It is also very well suited to cast bullet use with no fillers needed to get 2150 fps with 400-410 grain bullets at modest pressure by modern standards: 45Kpsi.

It may take a 27" barrel to do that reliably, but in a single-shot or double rifle that is the same length rifle as a bolt action with 23" barrel.

At similar pressure levels it will get a 330 to 340 grain FN brass or copper monometal going 2300 to 2400 fps: no filler, no large charges of slow powders, least recoil for the minimum effective DGR WHOMP.

It was meant to be.

RIP

Boomie We're just having fun.

Max,
You and I: Our pinkies are not kinky nor inflexible.
We are simply high IQ shooters who like the Ruger No.1.

There will be no destroying of double rifles in the true 400 NE chambering with high pressure Ruger No.1 loads.

No Sirree. That is a patently ridiculous impossibility, because the first ever true 400 NE double rifle has yet to be built.

Who do you think should build the first one?

Searcy?

Rusty: Talking to boomstick about the 400/.395 NE is like dialing a 900 number to have sex.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
RIP

Boomie We're just having fun.

Max,
Dave Davison at CH4D has two sets of 400/.395/NE dies ready for heat treat. He said that takes 10 days to 6 weeks, depending on the the outside heat-treat-firm's "turnaround."

Since Dave Davison has lots of experience with wildcatting the 9.3x74R, he is the man to do the 10.03x74R reloading dies.

RIP,
I am even more anxious awaiting this cartridge than I was for the .395 Max! It will do much for my "fun" shooting. Think about it, 400gr lead bullets for plinking, 340gr for DGR. Oh, the wonder of it.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
RIP,
I am even more anxious awaiting this cartridge than I was for the .395 Max! It will do much for my "fun" shooting. Think about it, 400gr lead bullets for plinking, 340gr for DGR. Oh, the wonder of it.

Max,
And of course we must come up with a 230-grain gas-checked-hard-cast boolit to throttle down to 2050 fps to duplicate the 400 NFBP 3" (.395-caliber original) and 400 Purdey 3" (.405-caliber copycat).

Those ballistics will be "good for squirrels and such," and for grandchildren.

Don't shoot your grandchildren.
Let them shoot your "400."

Of course, by the time you get your 400, you should have figured out which of the "B-Max" jacketed bullets work best in the .395 Ruger Max. Likely the one that stabilizes right at .395 after being sized down, eh?
Something in the 200 to 300-grain range?

There is much to be done to see which resized cast lead and jacketed bullets can be made to shoot accurately in the .395 Ruger Max, eh?

I'd planned to go to the range this week, but we've had some snow. With my pinkie finger in the air, I just couldn't get my Gucci's wet walking through the snow. (This for Boomstick).
I definitely will be working on some of these loads. One grandson is willing to "sacrifice" some of his time to assist in the testing. Also have a friend whose son wants to shoot something bigger than a .22 and light .30-30 loads.