The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Why I no longer defend the .458 Winchester Magnum.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Why I no longer defend the .458 Winchester Magnum. For more years than I can remember I have been an staunch fan of the .458 Winchester Magnum. Having owned 2 rifles chambered for the .458WM at least I can speak from experience (even of it is somewhat limited) about the round. I have not been able to fault either rifle and I have never experienced any problems when reloading the .458. Despite all the positive experiences I've had with the .458 Winchester Magnum I can now no longer defend it. Why not? Because there's no point. People either don't listen - or they've already made up their mind about the .458 Winchester. I end up just getting frustrated, so now I'm just not going to bother. Instead of arguing about the .458 Winchester magnum I'm going to go out with mine and shoot big animals with it. "Its poorly designed" "It was all there was at the time" "Lacks penetration" "Too slow" "Not powerful enough" "Not enough case capacity" "Caked powder and poor bullets" "At least in a magnum length action it can be converted to the Lott" Heard 'em all and to be honest I just get sick of it... and I it don't agree with any of the above. I have no shares or stakes in Winchester. I had no part in the design of the .458. I didn't invent the round, so if people choose to use or not use it, it's of no consequence to me. My feelings aren't gonna get hurt, BUT, what does get me upset is when someone buys a perfectly good rifle and then converts to the Lott - usually without even firing the rifle first! Or because of horror stories they've heard about ammo that was manufactured decades ago!! That's like me saying "yeah, I drove a Chrysler 50 years ago and because of a bad experience I'll never drive one again!!" Gimme a break.. I'll be honest and say that I just don't get that kind of reasoning. How many people buy a .30-06 for deer/ elk and then without firing it get it converted to the Ackley? Or buy a .300 Win Mag and then get it converted to .300 Weatherby? Not to many that I've met. Now don't get me wrong, if someone wants a Ackley, or a Weatherby, or a Lott then that's all cool and groovy, good luck with your rifle and I'm sure that it'll serve you well. BUT, if someone buys one because they feel that the original cartridges aren't up to the task - because they were told (or read something online) by an 'expert' that says they're not, that really gets me going. I think my favourite one is in regards to the caked powder/ squib loads that the .458 is famous for. To say this didn't happen is a lie. It did and I don't doubt that it got many a person in serious trouble... or worse. The most common cause I hear for this is because of 'compressed ball powder' that glues together under the African heat and doesn't ignite properly. The funny thing is that according to Winchester the original rounds WERE NOT loaded with ball powder! Winchester only changed to ball powder in the .458 some time in the late ‘70s or early ‘80s. Before then, the .458 was loaded with a cylindrical, short-grain double-base powder. A gentleman by the name of Georg Grohmann also wrote about this in detail. He wrote a great article while working up loads for his .458 and quoting; "But contrary to popular belief in certain quarters, old (1970s) Winchester ammo was not loaded with ball powder, but with a small-log, cylindrical, double base powder. None of the cartridges I had for testing contained compressed powder, neither was it caked. It was, however, cemented by chemical action. There were also undersize bullets. The end results were, in some cases, disastrous. Not only were velocities much reduced (as low as 1856 fps in my tests) but there were both hang fires and misfires! But it was NOT ball powder, neither was it compressed! There was about 1 mm of space between powder and bullet in the solid loads and about 2 mm in the softpoint loads. It was a short-grain, cylindrical, extruded double-base powder, resembling IMR 4320 in shape and size. (IMR powders are single-base, of course)." Not good, not good at all, but also not due to caked ball powder. He goes on to further write; "As for ball powder ‘caking’ in compressed loads, this is another very persistent story. All I can say here is that I have been loading Win/Olin 748 ball powder in my .458 since October 1974. In unfired cases, my standard load is slightly compressed, yet I have never had a problem. In 2002, in order to check up on this, I disassembled some .458/748 loads, which I had put together in 1982! There was a little clumping of the powder, but no more than in cartridges I checked six months after loading. These rounds were re-assembled and then chronographed together with some cartridges, which had not been disturbed. Average MV was 2060 fps, exactly the same as what I got in 1982, when I checked some of the same batch of reloads." So why then the bad performance of the .458 years and years ago? Well let's see, there's the stick powder having a chemical reaction and clumping together - even though it wasn't compressed, the original 'solids' blowing apart and being undersized and the production line spilling powder from the shells before the bullet was seated. These problems have been fixed (decades ago!!) and it's a testament to the round's reliable performance on game that it's still so popular. What about the stories I hear about the .458 being not powerful enough for elephant? Well, I've never shot an elephant and unless I win the lottery I probably never will. But I do own a chronograph. And I know that a 500gr bullet at between 2050 - 2200 fps will kill any elephant under any condition. I know this because even though I've never shot an elephant, Grobler, Harland, Aagaard, Duckworth and Thomson have. Around 20,000 actually and all with the 458wm. And I also know that today, it's no problem to drive a 500gr bullet at these speeds, without super compressing (not that I think compressed loads are bad) or without sky high pressure. In fact the ADI loading manual lists the following STARTING loads for the .458 with the 500gr bullet, 70grs of AR2208 (Varget) for 2050fps and 70grs of AR 2206H (H4895) for 2070fps. These starting loads are as powerful as the factory ammo that culled 20,000 elephants, yet are not compressed and are very mild pressure wise. The .458 would probably be the most popular big bore here in Australia for hunting water buffalo and the such, and I'll tell you, in summertime up the Northern Territory, it gets as hot up there as anywhere in Africa. The loads that are listed in Australian manuals with Aussie ADI powders show that speeds up to 2205fps are possible (74grs AR2206H) without excess pressure and the N.T is where they are field tested. I don't think that 2050 - 2200fps is to slow for anything that a .458 would be used on. It compares very favourably to the .470 Nitro and would probably surpasses it if the .470 was chronographed in the more realistic 24- 26" barrel instead of the usual 28" the .470 is credited with. Even if the .470 was 50fps or so quicker than the .458 the .458 has a higher S.D when both are fired with 500gr bullets. So on game they would be pretty much identical... except that the .458 can do it in a standard action - not a magnum. This is why I think that the .458 Winchester Magnum ISN'T a poorly designed round. Nitro performance out of a .30-06 sized action. But what if you do have a .458 in a Magnum sized action like I do with my CZ550 Safari Magnum? Well according to the experts it simply makes sense to convert it to the Lott and it's a pretty cheap conversion. Well not getting it done is cheaper! One can load to an OAL of 3.8 in the CZ and all you need is a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They're about $15-20! The load that was recommended to me for my CZ taking advantage of the longer action was the 550gr Woodleigh and 74grs of AR2206. This load gives 2100 fps and over 5300 ft/lbs of energy. In what situation would this be lacking for dangerous game? So before converting it to the Lott, why not just seat the bullets out deeper in the .458 Winchester and see how you go? Brass and components are cheaper and factory ammo is a lot more common. (I know that WM ammo can be used in the Lott but if you're gonna factory ammo just use the WM as is. And remember that factory ammo culled those 20,000 ele's.) So this is why I no longer defend about the .458 Winchester Magnum. I don't need to. It has killed more dangerous game than any other cartridge and is now beyond criticism. People like Don Heath and Craig Boddington, who previously, were very outspoken about their dislike of the .458 have now called a truce with it. Why? Because there is nothing to criticise.. and there hasn't been for some time. Don Heath states that today there is nothing wrong with the .458 and Craig Boddington credits the .458 "as the gun that saved Africa". But I think that Craig sums up the .458 nicely with the following post; "Even though (years ago) Winchester boldly dropped the .458 Winchester Magnum, it needs to stay. It is still the least expensive option for a true big bore, and despite the current popularity of .458-bashing, it is absolutely adequate for the world’s largest game." And I couldn't agree more. You'll probably never NEED a gun. In fact I hope you never do. BUT IF you do, you will probably need it worse than anything you've ever needed before in your life... | ||
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Excellent post. I've used this logic for years but never put it down in print. It is interesting the mentality of those who get on the band wagon to follow negativity, without fact or logic, to have a cause. Kind of like many do against a well-known PH. Good show! Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Most people are greatly influenced by the hype put out by the pimp gun writers. Once one of them denigrated the 458 WM they all jumped on board. And all the neophyte readers swallowed it up. Hence, the 458 WM is forever doomed. Never had anything but excellent results from the round, just as you would expect! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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How about opening yourselves up to one of the most base concepts in regards to the entire subject of rifles/cartridges, Human Nature. Humans are fickle and it seems the more educated they are, the more fickle they become on various topics/subjects. Defending a particular cartridge/bullet/rifle type or manufacture/scope Ad Infinitum/Nauseam is basically a waste of time, simply because there will never be one be all/end all anything for everyone. Shoot what you enjoy and don't worry about trying to convert or convince those that disagree. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Accurate shooting and well constructed bullets kill animals not paper ballistics. Too many people (myself included by the way) get caught up on what a round looks like on paper. Well the one with 8,000 ft lbs must be better than the one with 6,000 ft lbs. Some of the older cartridges suffered from light loading and poor bullet design but in the modern arena they are now effective killers. | |||
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There is a little bit of validity to the criticism. All M70s of that era have the same receiver length so they all are capable of handling a long cartridge. Winchester was so wrapped up in the "short magnum" fad of the day that they had to make the .458 the same length. Another .2 or .3 inch of case length would have hurt nothing and it would have made the advertised velocity easy to obtain at lower pressures. Then if someone wanted to hot rod it they could produce a little better velocity. Yes it is a good round. Yes it could have been better. For some reason WW was fixated on the standard magazine length when an H&H magazine would have fit any action. So they goofed up the .300 Win Mag also. | |||
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The way I treat it is that I load the 458Win with the old 450NE weighted bullets of 480Grn to the classic tried and proven 450NE velocity of around 2150fps and put it to good use.  | |||
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No flys on the .458 WM, in my opinion, and whether or not it's "now beyond criticism" or needs defending, the first part of your statement is clearly incorrect. At least where the context concerns the ".400-level" class of African game cartridges, the .404 Jeffery "has killed more dangerous game than any other cartridge." Not only have hunters & PHs killed all manner of DG with the .404J since the 1920s, but it was for many decades the official chambering of DGRs assigned to employees of African game depts for predator/rogue animal control & culling purposes in countries like Kenya, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, and others. "Only accurate rifles are interesting." | |||
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Shooters as a group, tend to hold on these old issues more than just about any other group. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Excellent advice right there and even more so with the 450gr CEBs and North Forks! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Melvin, that's a nice post. I agree with most of what you've said. And as long as someone uses the 458 for buffalo and elephant the round is good, even excellent. But the round is also slow. My hunting experience has majored around 2700-3000fps. Dropping down to 2000-2200fps seems like a pretty big price to pay when carrying one rifle into a forest with multiple critters on the license. Such velocity makes 200-225 yards the outside margin for bullet drop and maybe less for good expansion. I've shot too many hartebeest and oribi at 200-300 yards to choose 2100fps for an African hunting rifle. Throughout the years I've always ended passing up any 458 Win that was offered to me. I've been tempted, to be sure. The 338 WinMag, 375H&H, and best of all, the handloaded 416 Rigby have always won out. Now, after the development of the 450 Rigby, I might still succumb, though I would probably do just what is warned about, above: I'd rechamber and have the bolt-face and rails reworked for the Rigby-sized case. For inexpensive rifles, it is not inconceivable that a 458 "Ruger" or 458"Accurate Reloading" might be offered in the future. I would probably pass, since I've built a 500 AccRel, but otherwise, I would certainly have looked at it. However, none of this paragraph changes the fact that the 458 Win is a great round and I would happily fill a buffalo tag with one if it were in my hands. Melvin, you're right. The 458 doesn't need defending. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Many bad Things had been said about "Weatherby" and their cartridges. Truth is one needs to know what he has in his hands and use it accordingly. Many bad things had been said about the magnumbelted cartridges...won´t feed, they will jam etc etc. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I'm in agreement. I've never felt the need to defend or rationalize my choices and decision. If someone feels the cartridge is inferior or lacking, that's their opinion. For me and my experience, the .458 WM with 450gr. North Forks and 72gr. of AA2230 has been more than adequate.  | |||
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It's always amazed me how a 500gr bullet traveling at 2,150 out of a .458 WinMag was seen as anemic, yet a 500gr bullet traveling at 2,150 out of a .450 Nitro Express was perfect and how the Lott/Watts and .450 Rigby/Dakota solved the WinMag anemia by traveling 100 to 150 fps faster.  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Opus1...Very well put. As mentioned in the original post, the British Nitro Express cartridges were all tested in 28" (or longer?) barrels, so the actual velocity of a 450NE is probably a lot closer to that of the .458 Win Mag. Also, remember Harry Selby used a Win M70, 22" barrel, push feed (although we won't get into that now), .458 for many years as his rifle of choice. | |||
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Opus, we can agree that the 450 Nitro and 458 WinMag are great cartridges. But we don't need to take away from the Rigby/Dakota/Weatherby of the same diameter. Those rounds do about 500 fps faster velocity than the Winnie and NE, which makes them suitable as 'all-around' cartridges for non-dangerous game out to 300 and even 400 yards. (The 460 Weatherby used to be advertised at 2700fps with a 500 grain bullet, though 2600fps is probably a more realistic max.) For comfort, a 450 grain bullet at 2600fps could be used. Maybe there will be a tipped, higher BC version one of these days. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Melvin, why do you even need to defend the 458 WM? - it works for you. Who cares what anyone thinks. Your happy, be happy - end of discussion. Go hunting, have fun. Regards, AIU | |||
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Today I run with a .450 Rigby, but only because it's built on a double square Mauser (pure heaven). However, I have owned two .458WM and never felt under-gunned. I've seen a lot of guys replace their WM for a Lott or Dakota or Rigby only to de-tune them to 2,200 fps or less because they cannot tolerate the recoil. Go figure... I would rather take a 500gr bullet at 2,100 fps than a flinched shot at 2,600 fps. Urban myths are hard to kill, even with a .450 Rigby. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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This is exactly what I would do (450gr CEB's too), but when someone asked me what I shot, I would say, "A 450 RImless Nitro Express." That way they would say, '"Oooohh, nice," versus, "Ohhh, sorry to hear that." Sometimes it's all a matter of semantics... | |||
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If you want to get another 50 fps out of your 458WM, just leave your rounds out in the African sun for 20 minutes.  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Well some of the original factory ammo for it was kind of crummy. The bad rap continues even after the reason for it was corrected. | |||
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In the late 50's there were stories of factory ammo with either ball or extruded powder found in the same lot. Little wonder why the round didn't take off - literally... Today, with modern powders, it's a non-issue. The case achieves 5,000 ft/pounds of energy. End of story. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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well put, amd well taken; it would seem. You would, however, have trouble convincing Jack Lott of that. That was then, and this is now, and the issues have been dealt with with the new powders out. | |||
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Very true. Lott and Watts solved a problem in "their day". Today, they would be hard pressed to convince anyone to trash their .458WM in favor of their cartridge... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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There isn't any need to defend the .458 Win in its modern form from either factory or hand-loads. It is perfectly capable of standing on its own merits. 465H&H | |||
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Today, with the lines of premium bullets and better powders available, it is fairly easy to compete and/or beat the ballistics of the .470 NE with a .458 Win Mag. While working up loads for a friend's .458 WM, we were chronographing loads in the 2230 fps range. Albeit, a bit hot, they were listed in several of the current loading manuals as within the max loads. We were just trying to see what it would do and we had no problems with extraction, sticky bolts and such. It's a fine caliber and you shouldn't have to defend it. | |||
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badboymelvin, Hear Hear, here here! Keep up the good work. I should have stopped looking after my first four rifles: 22LR, 30-30, 30-06, and a .458 Winchester Magnum. I was bowling moose over with that .458WM in the 1980s, even though all I had was IMR-3031. I could do 2150 fps with 500-grain Hornady RNSN even then, 24" barrel. I liked that load so much that I tried it on varmints too, with great success, moose to marmots! I don't think I have ever bad-mouthed the .458 WinMag, and never felt any need to defend it either. If I am ever tempted to, I will think of your post here, and just grin at the offender.  | |||
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I DON"T LIKE 458  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yes, you've always been more of a 375 guy, on a Rem 700, of course :-) | |||
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Hear, hear! After all, I can think of no better cartridge for a big bore bolt carbine with an 18" barrel. . | |||
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 http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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18 inches is way too long................. I am honest, I keep showing the wife what 12 inches is......  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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With the exception of Elephants, I believe a 458 with 74 gr of AA 2230 pushing a 450 gr Swift at 2280 FPS is a perfect combination for anything up to 200 yards. I can shoot this load all day long in 100F temperatures and put 5 shots into a quarter at 100 yards. Not to far off than a 400 gr in a std. 416 @ 2400 FPS. I can carry my little 458 Browning Safari grade all day long! EZ | |||
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Yeah, maybe on a yardstick. You're a legend in your own mind.......  | |||
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Can someone explain "cemented by chemical action " ? Has any other cartridge had the problem ? I guess that's why I never heard of an elephant turned into mince meat with a 458 !!  | |||
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I'll quote what the article said about the chemical reaction cemented powder, "The load was obviously the same as in my old ‘74 ammo, both as to powder type and weight. Neither was the load compressed: same 1 mm air space. But what a state that powder was in! It was almost completely cemented (as distinct from caked ball powder) i.e. the grains had stuck to each other, but the original air spaces were still present. The powder grains had also changed colour. The fused mass looked like some greyish-white sponge! Where it was fused to the case walls and bullet bases, it had blackened the brass and the jacket steel, indicating a chemical reaction. Assuming that it was nitro-glycerine, which leaked out of the powder and reacted with the surrounding metal, one must expect a loss of energy and hence lowered and erratic velocities. In addition, fused powder presents a smaller surface area to the primer flash than loose powder, exacerbating the loss of velocity. There was also evidence, that the primers had been affected to varying degrees by the nitro-glycerine, which leaked out of the powder." Hope that explains it a bit better. You'll probably never NEED a gun. In fact I hope you never do. BUT IF you do, you will probably need it worse than anything you've ever needed before in your life... | |||
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You have to take into account that .458 owners seem to take this discussion to heart, many over react to someones opinnion. Both sides of this equasition can be at fault and over reactive IMO... I am not a 458 Win. fan simply because I can punch a .458 out to a .458 lott in a half hour, and btw I load the Lott to the original sought after .458 Win. specs, a 500 gr. bullet at 2200 FPS, but with very low pressure with the Lott and I can still shoot .458 Win. ammo in it...That seems to anger some and pass right over the heads of others.. Contrary to what some have accused me of, simply because they cannot read or insist on arguement I have ALWAYS said, I would be perfectly content if I were forced to use a .458 Win but only if I were allowed to handload it, and I would prefer a 26 inch barrel on any borderline cartridge, even the 9.3x62 performs wonders with a long tube. The .458 Win has proven itself with good handloads in all the DG fields worldwide with handloads. but like it or not, it has a capacity problem, and it takes compaction to get it to allowable velocity in African heat. Anybody with an iota of intelligence knows that, but it can be delt with through proper handloading.. I believe todays factory loads are borderline but certainly acceptable on all but elephant, however I would not be real comfortable with factory ammo, but I would preceed with care if that is all I had to shoot with.... I also believe my approach is just good common since..but I would never declare the .458 and unfit caliber, just that there is a better option.. Bottomline, its a grand caliber in the hands of the properly initiated and experienced hunter. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I've got a .458 Lott. As mentioned above I don't hot rod it at all. Rather I load 500 gr bullets @2150 and got kill stuff with it. Works great, it's easy to shoot and you have no pressure issues at all. | |||
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Biebs..... 375 caliber has its place, great girly gun, or maybe a girly man gun..... And there are just not enough real rifles to go around, so there has to be the remingtons for some folks..... Now some real crap is a 375 remington... that is just going too far......... I don't think I can bear the thought....... Of course I am just kidding about the 458, regardless of cartridge....... My first big bore rifle was a 22 inch 458 Winchester. I used it to kill buffalo, lions, and all manner of critters....... I still have that rifle today, of course it is a Winchester M70...... 458 is extremely versatile and with todays bullets it can do ANYTHING you might ask of it........ M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I'm glad my post was taken for what it was, that he .458 Winchester Magnum is a perfectly suitable DG cartridge NOT that the .458 is better than any other cartridge. I tried to be careful about not putting any other cartridge down while discussing the .458. It was never my intention to say it's better than a .416, .375, Lott etc.. they are all viable DG rounds so choose the one that takes your fancy. I used to have a Zastava M70 in .375H&H that I spent quite a bit of money on, new laminate stock, barrel band fitted and a few other things and it was a really nice rifle. Super accurate too. But it just didn't do it for me. I then had it reamed to .375 Weatherby but I still wasn't in love with it. Truth be told I only bought the .375 coz I was looking for a .458 and couldn't find one. When a CZ550 .458 in as new conditioned turned up at my LGS I traded the .375 for the .458. (The previous owner bought 20 rounds he bought the rifle and a few days later returned the rifle to sell it with 16 rounds left. Who would've thought that an elephant gun would kick??) Now living in Australia, the .375 would've been seen by many as a more sensible choice. Still really effective on our largest species (water buffalo) but shoots flatter for our other game. Also kicks less. But I wanted a .458 (always regretted selling my first one) so I got one. That's why I totally get it when someone says they want a Lott over a WM. Or a .416 over a .470. Or a .375 over a .404. Coz that's what they want.. and if that's what you want than go get it and have fun with it. They're all expensive to shoot, they all kick like hell and they'll all dispatch the largest animals that walk on the earth. They're all different with their own little idiosyncrasies but they all get the job done. You'll probably never NEED a gun. In fact I hope you never do. BUT IF you do, you will probably need it worse than anything you've ever needed before in your life... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Why I no longer defend the .458 Winchester Magnum.
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