Since selling my 9.3 I have been reading all I can on both of these and for the most part I see very little difference in the calibers themselves, maybe a slight edge to the Ruger in a short barrel and the H&H has a slight advantage on ammo availability.

I have looked at many different platforms from a Tikka in 338WM (not CRF but a sweet handling rifle) to the Savage Brush Hunter (not sure how much listick that pig would take ) to building a 375Ruger on a Howa action and a CDI magazine frame......

I keep coming back to the CZ and the Ruger

That being said it really comes down to the rifles in question.

CZ550 with a factory sythetic stock and the Ruger Guide gun.

Both are CRF and from my reading the actions are both "ok" but could stand a bit of smoothing up.

Safeties are fine on both

Magazine capacity, this is one that the CZ has above the Ruger, I prefer a full 5 rounds but it is not a huge deal.

I want a short barrel max 21" so I would have to get the CZ cut, again not huge but the Ruger is good to go from this stand point.

Price, Ruger wins this one, even if I go with the CZ with the wood stock it's about $200 more and with the synthetic stock it is $600 more. But I think I would be happier with the CZ synthetic stock I think.

So I a looking to this well rounded group of adventurers for any feedback on either round or rifle that could sway me either way.

Not that it matters greatly but this will be used on mostly lower 48 game but I planning my return to the dark Continent in the next couple years either through work or a proper vacation.

I don't reload yet, waiting to move to set up the press I have sitting in the garage.

Or just say screw it and go with the CZ 458 Lott



<<<<<<<<<<<UPDATE>>>>>>>>>>>>


So I finally got the Ruger out of Bud's layaaway jail.

picked up a box of factory 300gr SP from Cabelas (the curse of living 5 min away )

Initial thoughts, solid rifle it came with the barrel counter weight to replace the muzzle brake. It's barrel heavy which I think is a good thing. Trigger was heavier than the CZ but quite crisp. I like the iron sights but will probably swap it with a NEG FO front once I figure out the 50 POI.

Mounted th Nikon African I had for the 9.3 and a Montana sling and proceeded to the range.

Accuracy results were quite good a couple nice clover leafs at 100m. Recoil was quite nice with the muzzle break much nicer than the 9.3x62, I will check it out with the barrel weight after a few more range trips. Luckily the fellow next to me at the range has a 375 as well so he was quite understanding

The irons were 8" low at 100m, I think someone here mentioned they were regulated for 50M so I need to look into that, for whatever reason I always have shot low.....my zero on an AR starts with 17 up

pic from the range


Question, has anyone chrono'ed the factory rounds out of the 20" barrel, I figured at least 2500fps so I sighted it for a hair over +2 at 100m for a 200m zero.

I will stick with the factory 300gr sp for piggy but really want to try the 270gr for deer season as the ballistics are very out to 300m, comparable to a 180gr 30.06. Adn needd to set up the reloading set I have in a box in the garage soon.

Anyway thanks for all the input on this decision!

Now to start saving for my trip back to the dark continent (trying to do it for my 45th birthday in 4 years) and a 458 Lott , last time I was invited to a couple buff hunts up near Arusha but due to work I could not make them....at least I got to spend a couple days in Selouis ....armed with only a 35mm

My .02...

You can get 375 h&h ammo anywhere in Africa.

Yes, the odds that your ammo will not show up on your hunt are low, but I would rather go with peace of mind.

Also, look at resale value vs. the 375 ruger.

If comparing the CZ to the Ruger I would take the Ruger. CZ's are nice but seem to always need something to get them just right.
The Cartridge choice is academic, whichever one floats your boat. I have some .375 H$H's but would hunt with a .375 Ruger without hesitation.

if you reload, and aren't going to Africa, there's no data to point you either way -- oh, there's feelings, but that and 3 bucks will buy you a coffee these days.


as for ammo in africa, there's not much ruger there... and if that is your SOLE criteria, by all means buy the HH.

either will do the job, the ruger is the same case capacity as a 375 weatherby, which if you load, you can use up and down.

to me, the price of 5 boxes of ammo of either will cover a NICE starting reloading setup.

Both are great calibers..I think the best African rifle on the market today is the Ruger 77 HAWKEYE AFRICAN MODEL..I have not seen a more African rifle at $900 for many years..I have owned about 4 of them and they all shot great..I have one now in .338 Win. Sold two 9.3x62 in that model for more than I paid for them, they just keep going up and up in value. I like the 375 Ruger real well..It has a lot to offer..

I have the 375 Ruger Guide Gun. I chose it because the 1 and 12" twist where as the Savage or the Howa has a 1 and 14" twist. I wanted to be able to shoot heavier bullets. If I wanted to shoot lighter bullets I would of chosen a 338 caliber. I am happy with my choice.
Very accurate and well balanced.

I concur the Ruger 375 is a very versatile cartridge for the reloader. I'm very pleased with my two Rugers. Both supremely accurate for out of the box guns.

I have two 375 H&H's, but no 375 Rugers. And on my last trip to Burkina, airline DID lose my baggage, including ammo,though not my 375 H&H. AND Toufiq did have 2 boxes of 375 H&H, (no 375 Rugers!)

I bought a 375 R Alaskan left handed. To get it imported to Canada it was around $1100 all in.

It is a very good rifle and easy to reload for. Mine will shoot 1" at 100 yards with premium bullets. It feeds well and is getting smoother the more I use it.

The stock length of pull is to short but the rifle caries like a dream, it is extremely trim.

I would suggest getting some Alaska Arms QD rings, it makes for a slick setup.

We went through this decision process last year for my wife. Several things went into process.

We wanted something inexpensive, but that is relative for many people.
She is also left handed. If that applies to you, then a NIB 375Ruger Alaskan or African is available for $600 at CDNN
http://www.cdnnsports.com/cata...dir=desc&q=375+Ruger
That is a deal that is just about to sell out. It looks like all of the right-hand models are gone.

As for ammo, I've heard that 375Ruger is common in South Africa. If travelling somewhere else, I would consider an airline that would let a box be included inside the hard sided rifle case. TSA (USA) allows that, so I would put a box in the rifle case and a box in the checked baggage.

Anyway, my wife went with the 375Ruger and the short little 20" Alaskan model with a laminated stock and stainless barrel. It shoots great and can be loaded from levels around a 30-06 up through a 338 and even beyond a 375H&H. (She is happier with 338 levels). The main thing is fit and practice with the rifle. We are going to shorten the LOP another 1/4" when we substitute a Limbsaver for the 13.5" "Ruger" pad. If the rifle were for me, I would probably get the African model and then put on a nicer recoil pad, bringing the LOP to 14". But the Ruger pad works fine for a 375.

As for ammunition, I would recommend learning to reload in order to take advantage of the wide selection of bullets. Three impressive "all-around" bullets for plains game, elk, and including buffalo are the GSC 200 grain (yes, the 200 grain takes buffalo), the CEB 235 grain 'extended range raptor', and Barnes TTSX 250 grain. They can all be tuned up for very flat shooting and good for anything out to 400 yards, which is farther than you will ever need to shoot in Africa. They are all 'monolithic' to guarantee deep penetration. Just find out which one is the most accurate in your rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Or just say screw it and go with the CZ 458 Lott

I'd say go with the 458 Lott.

The 375 Ruger should have been still born. It wasn't needed.

quote:

The 375 Ruger should have been still born. It wasn't needed.

It allows 375 ballistics in a lighter, smaller action and rifle package of a 338 or 30-06 size. That makes a lot of sense to a lot of people.

On the other hand, I would agree with you that if going with a heavier action and rifle, by all means get a Rigby in 416 or 450, or the 458 Lott. For North America, probably the 416, handloaded.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Or just say screw it and go with the CZ 458 Lott

I'd say go with the 458 Lott.

The 375 Ruger should have been still born. It wasn't needed.

The 375 Ruger is what the 375H@H should have been all along.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Or just say screw it and go with the CZ 458 Lott

I'd say go with the 458 Lott.

The 375 Ruger should have been still born. It wasn't needed.

LMAO -- "needed" .. is such an AWESOME word, gun grabbing liberals LOVE using it...

if they had been invented on the same day, there would be very little HH cases around

I would like to own an open sighted 375 Ruger one day.It would make a great spare or backup rifle to bring along to Africa,IMO.

Wow, I did not expect this to be so one sided. The practical part of me says 3 rounds in the Ruger are good enough and I can't imagine there are many situations I would need more.

Not saying 5 is not better

Also from everything I have read the Ruger outperforms the H&H from the longer barrel as well as providing close to the same performance from a 20" barrel that the H&H needs 24" to achieve.

I wish I was left handed those CDNN models are a great price but under $900 (Buds) is still a good deal.

Thank you for the input, now whether to get the short and ugly or the long and svelte.

Oh, follow up question.

If I go with the African would it be advisable to take it directly to the GS to get it bedded to avoid the stock issues I have read about?

I guess you would have 4rds in the Ruger as you can top load easily.Also if I am not mistaken, the Ruger has a much better safety than the CZ as it can lock the firing pin as well as the trigger.

It's always good to bed a rifle, especially if the stock is wood and there are potential changes in humidity.

The stock should be fine in any case, as long as the rear point of the action has a little space between it and the stock.

The Rugers are lighter than the CZ by a significant amount if that is a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Oh, follow up question.

If I go with the African would it be advisable to take it directly to the GS to get it bedded to avoid the stock issues I have read about?

Yes it would be advisable. You also may want to change the recoil pad. Those two things will make your life a bit easier. I really like my African.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

I'd say go with the 458 Lott.

The 375 Ruger should have been still born. It wasn't needed.

That same logic could be applied to the 458 Lott. Jack Lott stated in print many times that all he was looking for was a cartridge that gave and honest 2150 with a 500 gr bullet (and like most gun writers probably the ego boost of having a round named after himself). Even with the powders available at the time it was no trick to get those with the 458 Win and today 2200 fps is easily possible.

But back to the 375 Ruger, there are a number of PH's and wildlife biologists across Africa that are now using it by choice and ammo is becoming more available as well.

The proper AR answer is:

Winchester M-70 in 416 Rem mag-----

If you ask where to get the best steak we will tell you to get chicken---LOL

Go with the 375R in a Ruger rifle. The guide gun has a lot of features that are appealing. I bought the Alaskan model when it came out and it is one of my favorite rifles. Also have the Alaskan in 416R with a trijicon 1-4 set up for buffalo. You will not be disappointed.

I recently picked up one of the left handed Ruger Africans (non guide gun) from CDNN. It's a pretty nice rifle. Mine was built in late 2012 so it has the second cross bolt which I do believe was the answer to their stocks cracking.
A fellow on another forum bought one of the earlier ones with a single cross bolt and his stock cracked with less than 50 rounds through it. He got a new stock from Ruger with a second cross bolt installed so i'm guessing that was the problem. He hasn't had any other problems since.

I doubt that i'll be going to Africa anytime soon so maybe by the time I do go the ammo will either be available or it will go the way of the dodo bird. Who knows. It didn't sway my decision on buying it now. If that were the case I wouldn't own my 350 Remington Magnum either.

Most of the reading I have been doing about the 375 Ruger VS the H&H boils down to those who are nostalgic and hold the H&H in great reverence refuse to accept anything other than the H&H. Personally it doesn't matter to me as any gains you get from the Ruger you really won't be able to tell on game.
The one thing the H&H has going for it (which is pretty big) is the widely available factory ammo selection. The Ruger cartridge doesn't share that sadly.

I have had excellent results with my 375 Ruger. It has become my go to rifle. I just started loading with IMR 4451 and accuracy and speed have been very good....actually better than I had expected.

I am thinking of ordering a Montana 1999 in 338 RUM and this might be a rifle you want to consider. You can get it in stainless and it uses a B&C medalist stock with aluminum bedding. I have read varying accounts of their quality and wait times for delivery but still really like the product. Maybe after a couple more glasses of rum I will order a new RUM. As long as my wife doesn't know that is

I have both.
The H & H is a Ruger RSM.
The 375 Ruger is handier and lighter. You also pay for that with recoil.

The RSM is a heavy for caliber gun and shoots like a dream.

Both guns have killed buffalo with no issues.
Cant go wrong with either caliber

I acquired a 458 WM in a CZ some years ago. The cartridges rattled around in the magazine due to the fact there was so much room in it. Decided to ream it to a Lott and bob the barrel t0 22" and added some more stuff, trigger, bedding, Mod 70 type safety. Pachmeyer decelerator.
A lot of firepower with 5 down.
That rifle will wrench you with full house loads!
I have no trouble achieving 2300FPS with 500 grainers and 2400FPS with 450's even with the 22" tube. I shoot it open sighted and as I said you know when it goes off!
I keep the magazine full to add weight...

EZ

I have owned both, the Ruger Guide guns and Africans are perfect for the price.

Takes a lot of money to buy a 375 H&H that is the equivilant.

quote:

Originally posted by Palladin8:

The one thing the H&H has going for it (which is pretty big) is the widely available factory ammo selection. The Ruger cartridge doesn't share that sadly.

Not yet, but things are changing.

I like the H+H because it has a long history of doing the job. Why mess with a good thing.

I have a 375 H&H and I love it!!!

The only advantages I see with the 375 Ruger are that it is short and that it is offered in more factory made rifles.

We had to come to this. There has been a lot of discussion about the wonderful extra ump-ti-ump feet per second you get out of the Ruger round but there is little difference unless you compare a maxed out Ruger load in a 26" barrel against a lower pressure H&H load in a 24" barrel.

If you doubt that, look at what SAAMI lists on page 11 of "VELOCITY AND PIEZOELECTRIC TRANSDUCER PRESSURE: CENTERFIRE RIFLE" dated 01/11/2013:

For both cartridges - Max Avg Pressure=62.0 Kpsi, Max Probable Lot Mean=63.6 Kpsi, Max Probable Sample Mean=66.0 Kpsi

375 Ruger - 270gr, 2840 fps

375 H&H - 270gr, 2680/2850 fps

375 Ruger - 300gr, 2660 fps

375 H&H - 300gr, 2515/2680 fps

According to that, a fully loaded 375 H&H gives up nothing to a 375 Ruger if both are loaded within SAAMI specifications!

As far as rifles go, that's a decision you have to make yourself. If I was dead set on a Ruger 77 based rifle then I would be looking for a Ruger Magnum in .375 H&H. Not that it matters much, but the Ruger Magnum also holds five 375 H&H cartridges while the African and Guide Gun in 375 Ruger hold four.

That's why they call personal preference personal preference.

.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I like the H+H because it has a long history of doing the job. Why mess with a good thing.

try to get a 375hh in left hand.

why bother if a 375 ruger is what i can found easily and if it works for me ...

quote:

According to that, a fully loaded 375 H&H gives up nothing to a 375 Ruger loaded within SAAMI specifications!

But those figures were using different pressures, it doesn't matter who runs a test. The physics of the matter is simple. The Ruger has about 5.5 grains more capacity, around 6%. When pressure, barrel smoothness, fit , and length are equal (they never are, though, every barrel/bullet fit is unique) the Ruger will have a 25-50 fps advantage. That is just too small to notice without excellent equipment and the proverbial equivalent barrels.

The real difference and only difference worth talking about is the "length of the package" for an action. It is like comparing a 300H&H to the 300WM. The WinMag has about 3 grains capacity more than the H&H despite the shorter length, due to the straighter taper. But those 3 grains of capacity are insignificant. The reason for the success of the WinMag was the ability to fit in a 30-06 length action. If a person is willing to give up 7 grains to the 300WM, they can even squish a cartridge into the 300WSM.

Well, with physics one gets what one pays for. The 375 Ruger is a very well designed round that lets one carry a lighter rifle all day long for the same bang as the H&H. There is a negligible additional jump to recoil with the smaller, lighter rifle. No one will notice that while hunting, and a heavy shirt or shoulder pad on a bench will take care of anything for testing and load development.

I'll take the lighter rifle, any day, and I'm perfectly happy with 3+1, even 2+1. Just reload before walking into brush after a wounded buffalo. You'll be doing well to get two shots off at close range, should the need arise. Always reload during any pause.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The physics of the matter is simple. The Ruger has about 5.5 grains more capacity, around 6%. When pressure, barrel smoothness, fit , and length are equal (they never are, though, every barrel/bullet fit is unique) the Ruger will have a 25-50 fps advantage. That is just too small to notice without excellent equipment and the proverbial equivalent barrels.

And so the MYTH persists! The difference is much less than that and seating of bullets almost negates it .

quote:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/a...er-vs-375-hh-magnum/

Hornady engineers did a good job of making the .375 Ruger case short enough to work in the standard-length Ruger Model 77 Hawkeye action while at the same time giving it enough girth to increase capacity a bit beyond that of the .375 H&H case. To avoid exceeding the required maximum overall cartridge length of 3.340 inches, bullets have to be seated quite deeply into the case. Doing so displaces a great deal of powder space, but because gross capacity of the .375 Ruger case is slightly greater than that of the .375 H&H case, net, or usable, capacity of the two are close to the same. For that reason, velocities of the two cartridges are about the same.

This is clearly illustrated in the Nosler Reloading Guide 7. When the 300-grain Partition was loaded to overall cartridge lengths of 3.550 inches in Nosler .375 H&H cases and 3.300 inches in Hornady .375 Ruger cases, there was only 2 grains difference in net water capacity in favor of the latter. Had Hornady cases been used for both cartridges, the difference might have been even less. Regardless, the minor difference in usable capacity between the two cartridges has an insignificant effect on velocities when both are loaded to the same chamber pressure. Maximum velocities listed in the Nosler manual for the 300-grain Partition are 2,600 fps for the .375 H&H and 2,715 fps for the .375 Ruger, with much of the velocity difference due to a 2-inch-longer test barrel used with the Ruger cartridge.

Some reloaders will argue that they can load to much higher velocities in their handloads than those in published 375 Ruger data. But unless they have pressure equipment on par with SAAMI and Nosler I will remain skeptical. I will continue to believe that their claims are self evidence that they are exceeding SAAMI pressure standards.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
And so the MYTH persists! The difference is much less than that and seating of bullets almost negates it.

speaking of myths, a bullets seated to the same depth in a 375 H&H takes up the same amount of space as it does in the 375 Ruger case, and as was pointed out, the Ruger is a larger case.

Phil -- Regarding bullet seating depth, of course you are correct. I let myself get caught up in the Shooting Times quote. Assuming SAAMI max COAL and max case length are used, there is no difference.

Nevertheless, the myth I was referring to was the myth that there is a significant difference in case capacity. It was said above that "The Ruger has about 5.5 grains more capacity, around 6%". But the difference is less than half that and is not significant. According to Nosler, for instance, there is only a difference of 2.1 grains or 2.5%. ( http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/375-ruger/ and http://www.nosler.com/nosler-l...land-holland-magnum/ )

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
The only advantages I see with the 375 Ruger are that it is short and that it is offered in more factory made rifles.

We had to come to this. There has been a lot of discussion about the wonderful extra ump-ti-ump feet per second you get out of the Ruger round but there is little difference unless you compare a maxed out Ruger load in a 26" barrel against a lower pressure H&H load in a 24" barrel.

If you doubt that, look at what SAAMI lists on page 11 of "VELOCITY AND PIEZOELECTRIC TRANSDUCER PRESSURE: CENTERFIRE RIFLE" dated 01/11/2013:

For both cartridges - Max Avg Pressure=62.0 Kpsi, Max Probable Lot Mean=63.6 Kpsi, Max Probable Sample Mean=66.0 Kpsi

375 Ruger - 270gr, 2840 fps

375 H&H - 270gr, 2680/2850 fps

375 Ruger - 300gr, 2660 fps

375 H&H - 300gr, 2515/2680 fps

According to that, a fully loaded 375 H&H gives up nothing to a 375 Ruger if both are loaded [i]within SAAMI specifications!

No kidding.

It's the usual gun company coming out with something "unique" that's not needed (sorry jeffeosso) and done for marketing purposes without much basis on factual ballistics. Understand though that I have nothing against a gun company marketing something and making money from it and I have nothing against those who wish to have a gun firing a "unique" cartridge (I have several). I just never drank the Kool Aid and came to believe the 375 Ruger was such a fantastic replacement for the 375 H&H Magnum. I think the fantastic replacement for the 375 H&H Magnum has been out a LONG time, i.e., the 378 Weatherby Magnum but that's a little too stout for some.

Frankly, I'm suprised the 375 Ruger has done as well as it has but I thought that about the 204 Ruger as well and I was wrong (I have one and really like it). Of course other company sponsored wonder cartridges like the 30 TC and the various Ruger Compact Magnums died a pretty fast death.

I think you have the added option of a muzzle break with the Ruger guide gun.Something to think about if you plan on using a scope and do not have much experience with scopes and extra recoil.