Hey guys I'm looking to purchase a new bolt action rifle (I'd love a double but funds are not tight but not loose either). I've been looking at the winchester model 70 african in 375 H&H or the Ruger m77 in 375 ruger. Anyone have any practical experience with these 2 fine firearms.
Availability of ammunition aside which do you think is better for buff hunting.
Which do you think is constructed better?
Which do you think is more user friendly?
Lastly which girl is prettier?

let's see ..
one has
integral quick release dual square bridges
no reputation for spotty quality
free QD rings
3 position safety

the other is a winchester

(just pot stirring) i like the both

quote:

no reputation for spotty quality

you are correct--they are mostly bad---

Rifleman's rifle! Easy choice. But why not a 416? Much better caliber.

Now there's some for ya!

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

no reputation for spotty quality

you are correct--they are mostly bad---

Your talking about winchesters I am glad you got it right.

Alaskan in 375, Or better yet,416ruger! Mostly because the black and grey contrast so nicely in the photos.

A vote for the Rifleman's Rifle in the .375 cartridge that God intended, or the Classic American cartridge (.458WM) that saved the day for big bores when the English cartridges went absent without leave.

Model 70 or what??? a Ruger..no way. You get what you pay for.


http://www.cabelas.com/product...6y%3D-963&Ntt=70+375

Funny the Ruger VS M70 comes up. I went to the Boise Cabela's last week. They had NO Ruger boutique ammunition or specialty rifles.

They did, however, have a couple M70 big bores, and cases of 375 & 458.

Opinion, and just that; the Pre-64 Model 70 type action is the next best thing to a genuine Mauser 98.

The Ruger 77 is on it's fourth or fifth design change already. They create a totally new model as often as some people buy new cars.

They make me nervous. They also, out of spite supported the hi-cap ban when they could not match the S&W 16 round capacity (theirs was 15) proposing the 15 round limit.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

no reputation for spotty quality

you are correct--they are mostly bad---

yeah, but that rumor was before FN bought them

Winchester, M70 Safari Express. I bought one recently. I bought mine in .375H&H, since I already have a .416RM and a .458Lott.

Really well built. Needs nothing, and is available in .375H&H, .416RM or .458WM.

An old Winchester -- pre-64; or an older Ruger --can't remember the precise designation. Older can sometimes be better. It is in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
An old Winchester -- pre-64; or an older Ruger --can't remember the precise designation. Older can sometimes be better. It is in this case.

False.

The new Winchesters are built better than the fabled Pre-64.

Fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Funny the Ruger VS M70 comes up. I went to the Boise Cabela's last week. They had NO Ruger boutique ammunition or specialty rifles.

so, ruger's sold out, winchesters not?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

They did, however, have a couple M70 big bores, and cases of 375 & 458.

a couple,.. two... and 1 in 375 and 1 in 458

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Opinion, and just that; the Pre-64 Model 70 type action is the next best thing to a genuine Mauser 98.

and yet the discussion is about 375s, which can not fit into an unmodified "genuine" mauser 1898 .. in fact, can't fit with out extreme mods .. which you later decry

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

The Ruger 77 is on it's fourth or fifth design change already.

3rd - round top, square bridge push feed, square bridge controlled feed. - you might split frog hairs and mention the mkII (that's mark TWO, not 4 or 5) had some early pushfeed bolts... and yet mauser made HOW MANY different models before the original 1898 --at LEAST 6, and how many variants of that "genuine" 1898 ... oh wait, the 1898 was COMPLETELY changed, metallurgically, how many times from 1898 through 1945... and then how many times has it be altered AGAIN by makers of mauser 98 type rifles.. a GENUINE 1898 , from 1898 couldn't handle a 270 winchester today ... jiminy christmas... and what about the zillion variants? 1903, 1906, to name two excellent, and different, GENUINE 1898s?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
They create a totally new model as often as some people buy new cars.

TWO .. m77, m77mk2 .. mauser, on the other hand, created variants for nearly every batch

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

They make me nervous.

wow.. a gun model you don't own makes you nervous .. and yet an enfield can be trusted, with FOUR different makers and parts thrown together

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
They also, out of spite supported the hi-cap ban when they could not match the S&W 16 round capacity (theirs was 15) proposing the 15 round limit.

No, Rich, BILL RUGER and the RUGER FAMILY support 10 round mags, as did SW .. the ruger family no longer has ANY managerial control of the company, and the stock is currently SEVEN TIMES the market price it was when the family was dislodged. Further, there were SEVENTY FIVE round mags for the mini14 and mini30 at the time, as well as huge work on military only guns, including belt fed.

do be both factual and consistent...

the FACT of the matter is there are more model 70 variants (pre war, pre-64, post 64, classic, and etc etc etc) than there are actual model changes of the ruger.. TWO vs 4 majors ..

by your own reasoning, a new model 70 or a 60s FN mauser should "make you nervous" by your OWN standards..

dang it, i have low tolerance for made up/self justifications vs the cold hard truth...

the HAWKEYE changed the trigger and stock .. heck, if we measure that, then we have to could TEN model 70 variants on stock alone, and then FIVE for the model 70, including the new FN trigger...

and ruger never mass produced a brand cheapening model and sold it as the 677 .. or was that 670.. or coyote ... dang, we are up to like a DOZEN model 70 variants aren't we??

never mind the several DOZEN makers and variants of the vaulted m1898.. that NO ONE uses in its GENUINE configuration for a DGR..

they do things like
add integral scope bases\
square bridges
dove tail mounts
3 position safeties
complex bottom metals
trigger blocking, rather than sear blocking, safeties
and even some have gone so far as to deviant the design and even ADD MAG feed bottom metals...

trying to make the mauser into a ruger... (heh.. that last part i choked on trying)

and, of course, modifying m70 and m98 to top feed ... like ALL rugers do, from the factory..

of course there's never been a single reported case of a 270 or 243 or 300 win ruger EVER having lug setback... or needing modification for safe gas handling...

product prejudice isn't rational thought....
sigh... i kinda liked this verbal upchuck --
oh yeah, please don't use the "i meant in my opinion" lamer rhetoric .. this was stated as, now proven as misleading or false, facts

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
An old Winchester -- pre-64; or an older Ruger --can't remember the precise designation. Older can sometimes be better. It is in this case.

False.

The new Winchesters are built better than the fabled Pre-64.

Fact.

well said ..the SC FN winchesters are likely the best, most consistent, and best shooting winchesters, OUT OF THE BOX, ever

Wow guys great response but I think I'm leaning towards the winchester. I've shot both brands but only own a winchester. I like them both BUT I think the winchester looks better. The ruger Alaskan is nice but ruger synthetic stocks just look like plastic. The winchester on the other hand looks good in wood. Any practical experience in shooting the 375 ruger? Does it kick more is it worth it?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

no reputation for spotty quality

you are correct--they are mostly bad---

yeah, but that rumor was before FN bought them

I hadn't heard FN had bought Ruger--

quote:

Winchester, M70 Safari Express. I bought one recently. I bought mine in .375H&H.

1. Opened the box
2. Cleaned the rifle
3. Adjusted the trigger
4. Made sure all the screws were tight
5. Mounted a scope .....

..... and Violá!

Been shooting great groups (and lots game) with about as little fuss as a new rifle outa the box can provide. Never had a hickup.

If the new Rugers woulda come out (many) years ago Ida considered them as well.

Ruger/Winchester - 6 of 1; half-dozen of the other, Good Luck w/your choice.

I have a Ruger that is so rough you can bind the bolt if you pull out and back rather than in and back.

The other one won't feed the number four cartridge at a brisk pace, only if I stroke the bolt very slowerly.

I must apologize to Rich, there is also a third variant of the m77 suitable for big bores - the RSM action, which was an entirely different action, in that only the screws and trigger group could interchange with the standard length action - but all RSM parts interchange with all other RSMs with boldface and mag considerations . Now, in all fairness, it is a SINGLE model, except for the mag and Bolt face, and not FOUR makers, making non inter- changable, cross platform magnum "mausers" which aren't actually "genuine" m98s. In fact, the magnum Mauser was an English invention ... See 505 Gibbs

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I have a Ruger that is so rough you can bind the bolt if you pull out and back rather than in and back.

The other one won't feed the number four cartridge at a brisk pace, only if I stroke the bolt very slowerly.

Sounds just like the last several years of the Yankee model 70s, as well as many batches and runs in the 80s. You have "one"- without stating the modem number. Winchester has tens of thousands with similar issues - enough to have made them a running joke for requiring warranty violating gunsmith work overs before anyone would even consider taking one hunting. Memba that?

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:


I hadn't heard FN had bought Ruger--

Ah yep. They haven't - see above

Oddsix,
I'm no expert, but buy the one that makes your socks go up and down. I've owned a number of 375's including both a Model 70 and 77, and a Whitworth. The 70 was a classic version from Conn. The Whitworth was my favorite, but the others worked great, right out of the box. Both companies make nice rifles and both cartridges work. It's more important which one feels best to you and you have confidence in.
Bfly

Let me see in the house at this time I have remington,savage,winchester,mauser(a couple differant types)springfeld,arisaka and ruger bolt guns.

All manufacturers have and do model changes as the need rises.

I count at least 22 differant model 70's from the time they started,Ruger,Remington and the rest have a lot too.

For me Ruger has been the best value for the money.

I will say that anyone thinking about buying a new .375H&H really needs to look at one of these Winchesters, handle them in person.

They really are an excellent rifle. QC is top-drawer.

Something to consider; the Ruger 'advantage' is their proprietary cartridges. Which is personal preference and wanting something new.

quote:

Winchester or Ruger

Ruger does not build reliable rifles.....for this question, it's Winchester any day and every day

I had a number of Hew Haven Winchesters. They were of varying quality except for a stainless .375 that was just a piece of junk. That really left a bad taste in my mouth about Winchester. However, I am sure the posters above are right. Today's South Carolina Winchesters are probably the best ever made, better than the Pre 64s.

I have also had a number of Rugers over the years and all functioned well although some did not have the best barrel quality. However, all the Rugers I have had in the last ten years have been excellent shooters with the caveat that I have struggled to get some No. 1s to shoot.

Today, I think both guns are fine quality guns. If I had to pick here, I would pick the Ruger because I think the .375 Ruger is a better design than the H&H.

Here's another thought. Call CZ and pick up a CZ American in 9,3X62 instead of a .375. Old Otto Bock was way ahead of his time.

So consider what I am doing, I bought a Whitworth, and am horsetrading to get a magnum version. I'm probably going to talk myself into my first 404J.

I PM'ed most of the custom builders here, nobody is building a $6000+ full custom rifle on a ruger boltaction.

Rugers out here are truck guns.

The CZ is an excellent choice, you will like the set trigger; if only for load work.

Of the choices I would get the Winchester 70---- although I would rather have the now discontinued Ruger Magnum Rifle.

quote:

I PM'ed most of the custom builders here, nobody is building a $6000+ full custom rifle on a ruger boltaction.

Thats because there not a lot money in it no need to modify them like the hrs needed to make a 98 useable.

Its all about conveniceing your customers that they need to spend those dollars.

Thanks for the feed back I think I'll go to all the gun stores and handle a few I'll let you know what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
So consider what I am doing, I bought a Whitworth, and am horsetrading to get a magnum version. I'm probably going to talk myself into my first 404J.

1- so, not a genuine Mauser 98, rather a commercial copy made with a H ring and modern steel. . There is no such animal as a magnum zvasta action- which is what a whitworth is. Perhaps you meant one of the 4 major magnum Mauser clones, of which NONE since wwi have been German or Mauser or even Mauser licensed products. What about dem geeen ewe ien Mauser 98- of which the model 70 and ruger owe parentage ?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

I PM'ed most of the custom builders here, nobody is building a $6000+ full custom rifle on a ruger boltaction.

actually you didn't, with most be 50.1% or more. You may have PMed SOME of them. A ruger RSM can't be built one a geeeen ewe ien Mauser for 6k. The barrel alone is 2200 bucks. But the question wasnt about a full custom rifle. It was about a factory gun in one of two calibers. Please do keep up

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter
Rugers out here are truck guns.

good. And so are 95% of all mausers and winchesters. Most aren't safe queens. However, since you have zero background in ruger rifles and models, I would expect your speculation to be at least equally as valid as your other data. When you are in a hole, son, stop digging. "I may have spouted off my unfounded opinions as facts. Now that I have been informed, I maintain my opinion, even though the facts don't support my position". Only a democrat creates new arguments to rejoin, once trounced with facts

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter

The CZ is an excellent choice

not even CLOSE to a geeen ewe ein Mauser. Where is our going in position, sir?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter, you will like the set trigger;

most people don't use it. It's a gadget. Most custom rifle builders replace that and the CZ safety to be more like a ruger. Oh you could foolhardily say more like a Winchester, but the truth is the Winchester takes 6k (your figure) to match the dual square bridges found on rugers ... And CZ

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter if only for load work.

I own a Winchester Mdl 70 .416RM "Special Build" from their old Custom Shop and it is an incredible rifle. I owned a Ruger .458Lott RSM that Bill Ruger Jr. had sent to me and it was incredible as well - I sold it last year after having my .458B&M built - on a WSM Mdl 70 action. I also owned a Remington 700 .416RM (a pushfeed gasp!) from their Custom Shop that was possibly the best shooter I've ever owned.

Notice I did not mention a .375? That's because I am a firm believer that a .416RM will do anything a .375 Anything will do, but will do it better! As to brands, well I think you should be prepared to have any off the shelf big bore rifle worked over some before it is 100% reliable on DG.

Next question.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:


Next question.

There is no where to go from here...................

I could be wrong but it seemed to me that all my Winchesters did not have barrels with bores that lasted long.I think I have 5 or 6 model 70`s in 300WM.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I could be wrong but it seemed to me that all my Winchesters did not have barrels with bores that lasted long.I think I have 5 or 6 model 70`s in 300WM.

Is that why they don't shoot to the same point of aim.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:


Next question.

"Why work your way up the ladder start at the top buy a Winchester"

The only rifles I have regretted owning and will never be in my gun racks #1- Sabatti #2- Ruger 77 #3- Remington 700's

Winchester New Havens are the only rifles that interest me.
Never had a Winchester that needed to be sent back to the factory, can't say that about Rugers or Remingtons.

WINCHESTER M70

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:


Next question.

"Why work your way up the ladder start at the top buy a Winchester"

The only rifles I have regretted owning and will never be in my gun racks #1- Sabatti #2- Ruger 77 #3- Remington 700's

Winchester New Havens are the only rifles that interest me.
Never had a Winchester that needed to be sent back to the factory, can't say that about Rugers or Remingtons.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lavaca:
An old Winchester -- pre-64; or an older Ruger --can't remember the precise designation. Older can sometimes be better. It is in this case.

False.

The new Winchesters are built better than the fabled Pre-64.

Amen to that! I destroyed the stocks on 2 pre-64 458's shooting them in preparation for an African hunt. Ed Matunas says ALL pre-64 Winchesters in 458 or even 375 will split the stock if fired enough. Not so the new ones.