The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Winchester or RugerGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Personnaly I think the MKII rugers are better then the tang safety ones. | |||
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For me there is only Winchester...and a bunch of off brands. | |||
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I have always been a pre 64 Win and a Mauser fan and most of my guns are Mausers.. I have had 3 Ruger Africans as of late, tested them and sold them, and I can honestly say I have never seen a better quality bolt action factory rifle. The stock is awesome with not extra bulky wood, the gloss blue option is awesome, feed and function is flawless and accuracy is fantastic for big bores as all three shot 1" to 1.5" for 3 shot groups and with additional 3 shot groups they would apparantly have done about the same with 6 shot groups..I only speak for the African model, wood stocked rifles. None of mine had the bead blast blue that I wasn't all that carried away with. The new Winchesters are certainly very nice factory rifles so I suspect one should go try both for feel and point ability and smoothness of actions and trigger pull and make his own choice. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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That is news to the thousands of Alaskan hunters who have learned that you can count on them in weather and conditions that will stop most other rifles.   Whether or not you prefer a M-70 or M-77 is mostly a matter of choice and you can nit-pick all you want but both are excellent rifles. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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So apparently getting Winchester safari express in any of the 3 caliber a is next to impossible in Canada. Any Canucks know where to get one? Or should I be looking at a CZ 550? | |||
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Interesting that in Phil's picture there is the Ruger and that other nasty looking thing. The nasty looking thing has been, according to all the gun magazines, his "go to rifle" when the sheet hits the fan. It's a 458 Winchester on Mauser action. So the obvious answer to the OP in "none of the above". Among new guns, a CZ is the clear choice because it is a real magnum Mauser that shoots real Magnum cartridges. No coned breach, a real controlled feed action and a better more foolproof trigger. Mausers rule and have since 1898. | |||
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I bought my .375H&H from Ellwood Epps. They don't have any left, but keep checking, they might get more. Prophet River is another place to check, as they get in new stock regularly. Nothing wrong with a CZ-550; again, Epps & Prophet River are a good place to look. | |||
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They will also help you import one bought in the States. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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That is a fact that you can ALWAYS count on! | |||
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A Ruger is the Ginzu steak knife of rifles, I'll grant you that. Never owned a Ginzu Steak knife, myself.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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That is just meaningless BS.  | |||
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And this from the master of the Ginzu shooting sticks? Too funny!  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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If you plan to keep it the rest of your life, the Ruger is acceptable. It will never have the resale value or interest that a Model 70 CRF has. They bring out a new bolt action design every two years, or so it seems. | |||
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I have many of both and like both. Both have been reliable and accurate. Every company is capable of a lemon so I won't knock either one. My new Ruger Hawkeye in 280 Rem is a real shooter. I have a Classic Featherweight in 6.5x55 that is a real jewel as well. That being said, I tend to lean towards the Winchesters. Especially the FN built ones. The fit and finish is so consistent from one to the next. Anyone ever notice that some of the New Haven Winchesters only had part of the feed ramp cut? Some had a hump on one side where it looked like the machine just stopped cutting. I have had four like this and there is one at the LGS right now with this problem. Its an easy fix, but one hell of an oversight. I wish FN would have left the triggers alone though, I'm not a huge fan of the MOA trigger. P.S. There is a like new Winchester Safari Express(375 H&H) in the classifieds right now(shameless self promotion). | |||
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This is one goofy thread. Both are great Rifles. It just depends on what you want, what fits you best. The Ruger RSM just scream Safari! The Win 70s, new ones at least are fine rifles. I have all 3 RSMs and a 458Lott and 375 H&H new Haven 70. The 70's have not proven AS accurate as the RSMs but they are plenty acurate enough.... The flip down POS sights on the 70s just suck! They are stupid WTF was up with those. The RSMs need nothing, they are ready to go as are the new FN 70's. I don't know about the value thing on the Rugers, the RSMs are going up every day. CZ? Really? The first thing most do is send them off to get worked on. I hate purchasing something that ain't right to begin with. CZ should make 'em so. Anyone that thinks an RSM is "clunky" feeling can't possibly think a CZ isn't. Can they? There is really good stuff to say about all of them Win, Ruger, Rem, Mauser and even CZ. Pick what you like best. Heck I like something about all of 'em......well except the CZ big rifles......but they do make 'em in some neat calibers. . | |||
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Winchester in 375 H&H without exception. I have dangerous game rifles in both, so I speak from some experience. I have two Rugers, both of them are the M77 RSMs in 458 Lott, and both of the stocks on those rifles eventually split at the tang after about a dozen shots. Same with another brand new Ruger Safari Magnum in 458 Lott that Bwanna owned. Bwanna had it restocked by Ruger (after arguing with them about its cause) and the second stock split as well. We finally had them re-worked and re-stocked by Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks, but had Winchester had a rifle in 458 Lott, we would have easily gone with Winchester.  | |||
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I own both a (FN) M70 Safari Express in .375 H&H and a M77 Hawkeye African in .375 Ruger. I like them both for different reasons. The Ruger is lighter, a bit shorter, and handles quickly. The .375 Ruger cartridge feeds very well, and to me the Ruger handles better than the Winchester. The Winchester is a little heavy for a .375, but I like it for hunts where there is not a long and hot hike involved. The M70 stock is bedded at the factory on both recoil lugs, and it has a good recoil pad. I feel the recoil a little more in the Ruger due to it's weight and slightly hotter cartridge. The Ruger needs to have the recoil lug bedded and a good recoil pad installed. Both rifles shoot very well and are of good quality. | |||
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The RSM M77 is a well built rifle. Buzz Charlton (no less) used one for years. A buddy has a RSM in .416Rigby. I do not like the rifle; I find the barrel excessively heavy. I do not like the balance due to the heavy barrel. Obviously you could get that cut down, and then it would probably balance and handle better. I've got a CZ-550 in .458Lott; I had it re-chambered from .458WM. I sent it to the gunsmith to get a barrel band installed, plus have cross-bolts installed in the stock, along with glass-bedding the action in the stock. I kept the functional CZ 2-pos safety. Any 'expert' would tell you to change this to a 3-pos style safety. This is so they can look more knowlegable around the campfire, as it doesn't affect funtion or reliabilty one iota. It's a great rifle, and I would not trade it straight up for any RSM. I also have the older ZKK-602. This rifle was built in 1989 and originally re-chambered, and the barrel reamed to .416RM. I also sent it to the gunsmith to get a barrel band installed. I had the 'smith shorten the barrel from 25" to 23.5". I purchased a McMillan stock and the smith fit the action to the stock, glass-bedded it. Again, I kept the factory 2-piece safety. That's the one that is backwards to fire, forward to safe position. The 'experts' hate it. Lastly, I bought a Winchester Safari Express in .375 H&H. Beautiful rifle. Needs nothing. I would recommend a new CZ-550 to anybody, as well as one of the new Winchester Safari Express rifle; pick your cartridge. | |||
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Ginzu sense of humor there, eh? MR's wit is as sharp as a Ginzu, but only in his own mind does it cut like a hot knife through butter. MR: Please post the "Cigarette Grip of Death" picture of shooting stick technique. Now that was funny, but no, not worth my time searching for it, if it is still there. | |||
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RIP, apt name, that. One can only teach those willing to learn. My time is wasted on such as you.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Just when it was getting so stupid it was almost funny! MR (Mentally Retarded) was so apt also, when you went by MRlexma, what a shame you changed it! Your sympathy is utterly mutual to be sure. Your idiocy is just too tempting sometimes for me to resist.  | |||
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The true "man" shows himself. Almost as pathetic as when you blamed your PH and his shooting sticks for wounding and losing a Cape buffalo. When of course it was your own incompetence that was the cause. But I will readily admit that your sniping at me is not quite that pathetic. Still, though, pretty ridiculous, and preserved here by me, to show the true "man."  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I have multiple Ruger rifles and one Winchester Safari Classic in 375 H&H. When I die, I will still own the Winchester. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I have a Ruger 77Mk2 and a Hawkeye. You would think I would of learnt the first time. The mk2 bolt locks up solid on closing and ejecting if working the bolt hard and fast. The Hawkeye is not quite as bad. So yes they are very unreliable rifles. Need the Mauser antibind rib. I would go the Winchester no questions and I am not a winchester person Only Winchester I have is a model 94. If you decide to go Ruger have 4 dumy rounds made up in the calibre and tested them through the rifle with a scope on it if you are to use a scope. Work the bolt hard and do this sevral times. Then buy THAT rifle if it feeds well. | |||
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Frank: Now, that is FUNNY!  | |||
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As I have said many times it is YOUR rifle so it is YOUR choice. What the hell difference does it make what I llike better. Having said that I have owned Model 70's since 1952 and when I die I will still own a Model 70. I have also owned many Rugers of many variations. Including several RSM's. I shall probably NEVER own another Ruger rifle (have several pistols and will probably have more over time). Not be cause of their quality,accuracy,or reliability as I cannot fault them on any item. I just don't like several things about them. I absolutely hate the bolt handle and the accompanying huge cut in the stock. Just can't get around it in my head. The safety is abysmal in my opinion. Just plain FEELS terrible. May work perfectly but the lever is terrible. Hate the trigger guard with the weird floorplate release. You wanted opinions you got opinions. That's exactly what these are MY opinions that affect MY decisions. The absolute ONLY thing I have EVER disliked about a Model 70 was the aluminum trigger guard which is easily fixed with a Williams steel replacement. As to the 375H&H,I currently own 5 of them so I can't really say. I suppose the 375 Ruger exists but I personally have never seen one (which is of totally no consequence). SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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You can do about anything as far as caliber choice with the old M70 if you change your mind after you buy the rifle. I have an early 3rd year (1937) 22 Hornet carbine that is built on the same action as my 375 H&H. How Winchester made both fit and feed flawlessly is still a mystery to me, but they did it. | |||
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Another plus about the Ruger RSM is the flat bottom forearm-it balances the front well and does not make the sights roll over and brings them down low too.Also has what seems like a large loading port to me.I also love the bolt handle-I think it is better and faster than any straight bolt handle I tried and there is a small gap between the bolt knob and the stock that lets you catch the bolt on the upswing with your fingers while working the bolt.I always seem to miss it a few times with straight bolt handles that hug the stock. I just love the Ruger RSM.You can take the bolt apart also and see that it is simple to change a striker spring yourself(unlike the CZ).One thing about the RSM is that you need to change the striker retaining pin yourself with one having better metal in order to have a perfect and indestructable rifle. [URL=  ]dowel pin[/URL] | |||
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Thanks, MR, always a pleasure. I own 32 Ruger rifles and 23 Winchester rifles, including the South Carolina .375 H&H M70 I bought today for $909.99. None of them are kitchen knives. | |||
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Rich a truck gun is usually the type of firearm that gets beat up, scratched up, kicked around, coated with dust, gets wet and when you reach under the seat for use it just keeps on going bang when you pull the trigger....that's what I am personally looking for and that's what most alaskans look for in a hunting environment that demands it. I've always told my son and daughter that beautiful and handsome can hurt you when it comes to girlfriends and boyfriends and so it is true a lot of times with rifles. Over the past 3 decades the most beautiful rifles I've ever owned were the biggest headaches and needed the most work, to work. Thus I have sold all of my M70's (they are good rifles) but at this time and own nothing but Ruger Hawkeyes and semi-custom Rugers to boot, like my 458 wm. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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I currently own 86 + Winchester M70s, 60+ of them are 338+, I own 1/2 dozen or so Rugers... There is no comparison between the two. If there was no such thing as a Winchester M70, then I would own Rugers. I think its clear where my preferences are............... Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Oh yeah! | |||
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Good Morning Ole Buddy RIPPER.......... I trust the world is treating you right, as you deserve! I must drop in and see what you are working on, but damn you work on so many things its hard for me to keep up with them!!!!!!!! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Doc M, I haven't been able to arrange a Myrtle Beach Vacation/McCourry Institute of Ballistics Seminar (MBV/MIBS) yet, but I shall, someday. Continuing Education in Ballistics (CEB) aka Ballistic Studies (BS) is a very important aspect of both my professional and hobby careers.  Ruger vs. Winchester, or Leupold vs. Nikon ... I like'em all ... though I am buying Nikons instead of Leupolds these days, to stick on my Rugers and Winchesters, and Mausers and CZ's ... | |||
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Well, you know you have a standing invite to the compound........... We don't have a big educational project going on at the moment, getting my rifles and loads ready for July and working with that. I have a couple of Single shots coming in 50 B&M AK, we are looking forward to that, and just happens to ALMOST FIT this thread, a Winchester 1885 and a Ruger #1! LOL.......... Intend to push the limits of the 50 B&M AK in those guns......... I too am buying and working strictly with Nikons on everything, with one exception, I am still working some with the Leupold Scout Scope, forward mount, Extended Eye Relief, in particular on a M71 in 50 B&M AK.... Other than that, Nikons all the way, and still holding up, I still have not busted one yet! Amazing..... OK, Hi Jack of Thread off.......... Winchesters Rule...... Rugers Drool...... LOL....... Something I heard the kids say concerning another subject of some sort that I was paying absolutely zero attention to.......  Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Ok guys it was winchester all along now I only have to find one. I like Rugers they shoot really well, at least the one that was given to me and I really like the European look of the CZ but that might suit a 8X57 better. Ultimately the Winchester IS the riflemans rifle and since the new winchesters are being built so well it's the only real choice for performance on a budget. Thanks for the info that is why AR is the best.  good hunting everyone no matter what brand you use..... | |||
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Thanks for the update on Nikon reliability. I don't get to shoot much but our Nikons (both 2-8 compact Monarch, and Slughunter (5" eyerelief) have held up with 6000 ftlb loads. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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 remind me never to post without 'fact checking'. Just got an education by a guy who really knows rifles! By the way, I own both. But I like the 77's because the tang safety is quick for me and because they are all the same action length (30-06,300wm,338wm and 458wm). I also like the 70's because they fit well and work great. | |||
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Whee Whee Wheeeeeeeeeee! I finally found the Winchester probably one of the last ones in Canada and she is on her way to her new home and just in time to try her out on a black bear. Can't wait. | |||
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