I've never had a problem with heavy kicking rifles, other than get a headache after about 10 or more rounds on the bench.

At age 63, I currently do 40 pushups every night before I go to bed. I had been doing one set of 50 pushups every night for the last 20 years, but I am slowing down a bit.

Since I keep pretty good muscle tone in my upper arm and upper back muscles, I wonder if physiologically that doesn't give me an edge when shooting hard kicking rifles.

Do any of you do any exercises to help deal with recoil (other than shoot a lot).

Thanks.

BH63

This may not be relevant but:
I have noticed that skinny guys, like me, do better with recoil than big muscular guys. We skinny folk just get moved backwards with the recoil and the muscular guy does not rock bacwards as much. Hence he feel the "whack" more.
I remeber,in boxing, when I would hit a thick muscular guy in the chest my wrist would hurt because the was no "give" when he was hit. ( I always perferred to punch skinny guys. Chuckle)

P.S. I should have just offered simply that I think that physical flexibility is an important factor. And, I guess that's pretty obvious. Brian

IMO it is more important to have a rifle that fits the shooter and said shooter uses proper technique and stance.

Being in good shape is never a bad thing and I think good upper body strength aids in shooting accurately.

I doubt if condition makes much difference as to recoil, I have seen all sorts shoot the big bores, mostly its determined by the amount of shooting one does with big bores..Im 6-2 190 lbs, used to be muscled heavy, but mother nature allowed me 81 years and now I look like a duck with the s--t slung out of him, Recoil has always been the same and when Im shooting big bores a lot, I feel nothing, if I lay off 6 months to a year I can sure tell it and it takes some time and considerable shooting to get toughened up...

Same for hunting and everything else I do these days, take little time to get out of shape and forever to get back in shape, the older you get the worse it is..With me it started showing at about 75 years old..

But I tore my hand up roping and reconstructive surgery and 8 mo. in a case and the hand still won't take big bore recoil, that trigger to the middle finger will lay me out!

Im pretty much left these days with a .338 and 9.3x62 as max, at least so far and its been 2 years, but getting better and I can rope again, so the hand limits my rifle shooting. But hey Im greatful I can even rope and shoot med. bores at my age, Im blessed.

I've always felt personally, that the more muscle I had in the delt/pec tie-in, the less I felt the recoil of high energy loads in my shoulder, be it fast medium bores, or simply large bore rifles. My main mediums are 338WM, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62 (and 66) and 375s. My big bores are 416, 404, 458, 470 and 505s.

I agree with everything that has been said above about rifle fit, practice, etc. and I am a small person as well, 5'7" and 165 lbs. I am a little older as well, 65 (Ray is laughing at a young punk).

In my 40s and my wifes late 30s, we competed in bodybuilding contests. We won many trophies in 5 years of competition, so we have lifted a few weights in our lives, and we continue to lift. However, at 65 and she at 61, our weights are not nearly as heavy as we did in competition and when we were younger. However, we have been around the weight training block, and I can tell in my shoulder when I have lost muscle mass, and IMHO, there is a difference when the 'padding' is there, and also when it has atrophied.

I've seen much bigger men than I ever was at the range, but I've also seen men who have probably never lifted, and their shoulder complex is pretty 'boney', for lack of a better word, and I've always thought that they must feel much more recoil to the should joint/bone area, and it must be more painful. But, I don't know that for sure as I don't live in their bodies. But I live in mine, and when I haven't lifted for a while due to constant injuries, I can tell the difference. I then stay away from my worst recoilers until I've built the shoulder complex back up a bit.

Just my $.02. We're all different.

Excellent question and good topic! In my personal opinion, yes, push-ups and physical fitness in general will aid in shooting ability. This isn't to say being a bodybuilder will make you a good shot; you still have to practice and follow good form using a properly-fitted rifle. There's a lot of evidence that suggests the huge, burly guys will absorb more recoil than the skinnier folk who can move with the rifle instead of against it. It's all about muscle memory; there's nothing that says those muscles shouldn't be as strong as possible.

I think Ray makes a great point. The rifle I shoot the most is a .416 Rem. Mag. It's a pussy cat. If I haven't shot my Lott for a while, it takes some getting used to.

I think technique is key. I am 230 lbs and muscular build and love the big boomers. I learned from some of the best.

Some great posts. I remember reading a book by some African hunter where he says he gets in shape for the big bores by shooting a few rounds of trap. He then gradually works his way up to his .460 Wby Mag, a few shots at a time.

I am kind of cheap when it comes to burning ammo that costs $7 or $8 bucks a shot. So I have always done a lot of pushups and shoot the rifle just enough to get a good 100 yd zero (maybe about 5-10 shots). That seems to work well for me, but everyone is different.

BH63

I can't figure out what's best. Ive seen slim women that shoot and don't seem to even notice recoil. Have seen the same with some skinny men. Have seen burly types that recoil bothered them--everything in between.

Handling recoil is heavily dependent on several things. The gun has to fit the shooter correctly. The shooter has to know how to handle the big kickers correctly. The shooter can't be afraid of the gun. Yeah the actual recoil is a factor, but if handled right, they don't feel near as bad. At one time I couldn't stand the recoil of my 7mm mag, heck even my 30/30 was painful to me at one time. Now I shoot a 375 like it's mild gun, and the last outing with my 416, didn't even bother me.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Some great posts. I remember reading a book by some African hunter where he says he gets in shape for the big bores by shooting a few rounds of trap. He then gradually works his way up to his .460 Wby Mag, a few shots at a time.

I am kind of cheap when it comes to burning ammo that costs $7 or $8 bucks a shot. So I have always done a lot of pushups and shoot the rifle just enough to get a good 100 yd zero (maybe about 5-10 shots). That seems to work well for me, but everyone is different.

BH63

I do the opposite, start out with the 500 Jeffery, then the 416 Rem and 375 Weatherby are pussycats

I am 67 years old 5'-9" tall and weigh 215 pounds, and can still do 20 dips on the parallel bars, so have some chest/shoulder muscles. For higher recoiling guns I shoot a 10-ga double with 2-1/4 oz loads, a 10-pound.338-378 Weatherby without a muzzle break and a .50-140 Sharps with 575-gr to 700-gr bullets at 1600 to 1800 fps. They don't bother my shoulder at all but without ear protection they do bother my very sensitive ears and I've lately had detached retinas in both eyes.

Frankly , I just shoot a lot. Pistols, rifles, combat shotguns etc. I rely mostly on trigger control. Never bought into the whole recoil stuff.-Rob

Pushups don't help, but having boxed I can tell you getting punched in the head does lol

12 oz. curls works for me.

I am small but very muscular. I don't think my strength has much to do with handling recoil but I do think mental attitude/toughness does. I've been shooting a 458 since I was a kid and I doubt I was much over a buck thirty at the time . Strength can help in field positions but to me recoil has mostly been a mental game. In fact, I've been beat'n by a heavy kicker more then once and no amount of strength was ever going to get me to shoot the rifle good again.

You should always try to stay in shape and it doesn't take a lot of weight to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:
I am small but very muscular. I don't think my strength has much to do with handling recoil but I do think mental attitude/toughness does.

Absolutely. Very well-said.

quote:

Strength can help in field positions but to me recoil has mostly been a mental game.

Yep. It's with those field positions having stronger connective tissue will help. If you 'think' a rifle is going to beat the hell out of you, you're absolutely more inclined to be affected by it. Usually, just diving right in and shooting it without analyzing how it's going to kick is the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
I've never had a problem with heavy kicking rifles, other than get a headache after about 10 or more rounds on the bench.

At age 63, I currently do 40 pushups every night before I go to bed. I had been doing one set of 50 pushups every night for the last 20 years, but I am slowing down a bit.

Since I keep pretty good muscle tone in my upper arm and upper back muscles, I wonder if physiologically that doesn't give me an edge when shooting hard kicking rifles.

Do any of you do any exercises to help deal with recoil (other than shoot a lot).

Thanks.

BH63

I'm a little older than you and haven't done a pushup in a number of years. I am active, however, doing various things that need to be done on a farm. I would be more of the endoectomorph type, 6' 10" and about 300 lbs.

460 Weatherby From The Bench

The thing that probably helped me the most in recoil tolerance was the martial arts black belt I earned at age 45.

I agree totally with the idea of mental toughness and technique being the two most important aspect of firing big bores with accuracy. And certainly, frequency of shooting will desensitize ones reaction to recoil.

I don't think strength has much to do with shooting big bores, as we sometimes see small women shooting them effectively.

But padding is a different story and an effective antidote to felt recoil. Some people use thick soft recoil butt pads. Some use towels against their shoulders. Some use PAST shoulder recoil shields. Some use CALDWELL lead sleds. If padding is not important to taming recoil, then we can all take off our Decelerator butt pads and install steel butt plates on our big bores.

The 'pocket' that I use for the butt of my rifle is formed by the upper pec (not the lower) and the anterior delt muscles. For me at least, the better developed those muscles are, the more 'padding' I get to attenuate recoil; just like all the other exterior devices people use.

Strength has little to do with it IMHO. It's padding, not strength.

Did any of you ever notice that you seldom notice recoil when shooting game, esp. dangerous game? Why? If you are expecting heavy recoil as at the range you get it. When you don't expect it in the field you are more relaxed and concentrating on where your bullet is going and not thinking about recoil.

465H&H

I would say no. Pushups will improve pushups but even stronger muscles will still take a pounding from severe recoil. What I do when the shooting season begins up here in AK is to start light and over a few weeks move to the heavier calibers. So sore muscles that way.
Cal

You should be far more worried about attaining accuracy than worrying about recoil. In the field you'll get 1or 2 shots at game. I can take any amount of recoil for 1or 2 shots. The weight of a heavy gun will beat you down on a long hike far more then a few milliseconds of recoil will. -Rob

Best exercise ever is just walking/ hiking around for a mile or two with your rifle on
Your back!

I think what is important is perceived recoil.
The recoil will be the same for everyone if same gun and load are used. The perception and the bodily effect of the recoil on shooter is what most people likely refer to as recoil when the matter comes up. I believe that being physically fit helps. Proper shooting stance and gun handling helps even more. Most helpful in my opinion is the mental perception of the shot. Mind over matter so to speak. I have found that to be most important of all when shooting well with a hard hitting rifle or gun. Shooting often, even if starting with lighter loads brings confidence and experience that the body and mind adjusts to. Being timid about it in my opinion will act negatively in the training. All said, there is a point with everyone where the recoil will be too much to be practical. Where that limit is for each shooter is different and only can be determined with experience.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Did any of you ever notice that you seldom notice recoil when shooting game, esp. dangerous game? Why? If you are expecting heavy recoil as at the range you get it. When you don't expect it in the field you are more relaxed and concentrating on where your bullet is going and not thinking about recoil.

465H&H

This has certainly been my experience. My go to rifle for thick skinned game was my wildcat .505 SRE, which duplicates .500NE performance in a 22" barrel, 8 3/4 pound rifle. I shot full loads with it while developing the loadings I would use in Africa, but only off the bench with my version of a "lead sled", which was based on my observation of German shooters using a "Preuss device", a kind of lead sled invented by a German ballistics expert named Preuss at about the turn of the XIX Century. Sighting in and chronographing full loads with it was not a problem.

Once I had developed a load I was satisfied with, a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps., I proceeded to load up heaps of cast bullet loads with reduced powder charges and use them to practice with. I would walk through the woods, picking out a rock or a stump to shoot at, then shoulder the rifle and shoot it like I would a shotgun. It was here that my training in International Skeet, which is shot from a low gun position, came in handy. After a while, this sort of shooting became instinctive, which was the point of the exercise.

I never fired a full load from the shoulder until I got to Africa, and then only to confirm my zero, resting the rifle on the hood of the hunting car with a folded towel between the buttplate and my shoulder.

When the time came to use the rifle in earnest, I was ready. Firing at game, I never noticed the recoil and neither, for that, matter, did I seem to be affected by it. I shot my third elephant perched on top of a termite mound, which I had climbed up to get a better angle at a behind the ear shot. I was precariously balanced at the top, but the recoil had no effect at all on my equilibrium. The first shot felled my elephant and the second went right through his heart. He was already dead, but you can never be too sure.

Shooting at game, you are thinking only of placing the shot correctly and you are not braced against the anticipated recoil. On my next hunt, I was balanced on a narrow rock ledge when a buffalo ran past me and I emptied the rifle into him. All four shots went where I was aiming and three of them were in a group which could have been covered with a playing card. Clearly I was absorbing the recoil rather than resisting it, but I never lost my balance. My gun bearer, who was standing behind me to catch me, in case I lost my balance, had nothing to do.

I set up my own range a few years ago, with a bench that accommodates right and left handed shooters. Once I started working up loads for doubles, however, I built an elevated, removable bench that sits on my original one and allows me to stand straight while I shoot. It's been on there now for several years - now I shoot everything standing instead of seated. Being able to roll with the recoil makes all the difference.

Don't stop the push-ups, however. Being physically fits is never a bad thing ....

As a guy that has gone from tight muscular pecks to letting them get flabby and soft, and back and forth, it does make a difference. Technique and practice have a much greater effect, but being in shape still makes a slight difference. I think this is simply because there is a better cushion (muscle) for the recoil to absorb into. but flexing under recoil can induce a nice bruise.

For me the biggest factor is keeping that forarm gripped tight to add the weight of your arm and rolling with the recoil instead of fighting it.

For what its worth, I follow Rob, its a mental game, Ive never seen anyone killed by recoil, or even injured other than some have had eye disconnect, and that was predetermined by other problems and the recoil only added to it..then from improper hold and a bad fitting stock that cut a half moon in the eyebrow..

That aside, and those are rather rare incidents, improper hold is probably the source of flinching for the most part. If one pulls the butt stock rather hard into the shoulder but not to the point of causing arm fatigue. I, personally use both hands to do this, you get more of a push that a snappy recoil.. I have noticed when I shoot a 470 or 458 Lott a good deal that my 416, 404, and 375 always seemed more like a 257 Robts for instance...again, the mind at work, but that's a good thing...

The bottom line is hold the gun properly, shoot more off hand than from the bench and/or use a standing bench rest. Practice a little bit every week to stay tuned up...Going all summer not shooting big bores makes for a bitch of a Sept shoot!

Body build has little to do with recoil IMO. Fear of recoil itself is the demon..concentrate on trigger pull, rifle hold and put the demon to sleep. If it doesn't work, use a smaller caliber that will..On DG for instance a 9.3x62 in the heart beats the hell out of a gut shot Lion or buff...Too many folks think poor shooting can be fixed by using a bigger gun and its quite the opposite, under any circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For what its worth, I follow Rob, its a mental game, Ive never seen anyone killed by recoil, or even injured other than some have had eye disconnect, and that was predetermined by other problems and the recoil only added to it..then from improper hold and a bad fitting stock that cut a half moon in the eyebrow..

My brother managed to get a "magnum" eyebrow shooting a Rem 700 BDL in .270 Win, so I agree knowing how to hold the rifle is extremely important.

I did read a story by a PH who had two different, elderly clients die from cardiac arrest immediately after shooting a boomer at elephants. He wondered, in the article, if the recoil didn't screw up the electrical impulses in the clients' hearts.

I also recall, P. H. Capstick relating in a book that he bought a new double rifle in .470 NE to replace the Evans that he had stolen, and upon firing the rifle for the first time, it doubled and actually broke his collar bone.

So I believe a heavy kicking rifle can physically damage you, if not held properly.

Grumulkin,

Interesting video. I have never thought about shooting a boomer off the bench while using the off hand as a rest (which is the way I shoot all my other CF rifles). I always worried about the rifle kicking up too high and whacking me in the forehead. In a couple of pics, the scope does seem to get fairly close to your eyes, though.

BH63

What Ray said is absolutely true!However,the best exercise you can get is "more trigger time!. A .22 in the heart is way better than a .50BMG in the hoof! Just think of all those miles of walking and tracking a wounded critter with that 12lb cannon on your back! As ok Ray used to say! It's best when they run off a few feet and just fall over"! Doesn't matter if it's a 45-70 or .600 overkill the difference is just how far they run off!

I agree only a pompous fool of the worst sort would attempt to hunt with a weapon that he/she can't shoot accurately.

(Although I don't think a .22 to the heart of an African buff would be a very smart thing to do either!).

BH63

Heart attacks don't come form recoil, at least in my opinion, the come about from exhaustion, short water rations and the elements of an elephant hunt..

As to broken collar bones from shooting a big bore, just has to be extremely rare...

I'm new to this forum and found this a very interesting topic.

I am 5' tall guy and I think the above comments about being lighter as well as shooting a lot (properly) have merit.

I've been shooting most of my life and was limited to shotgun/muzzleloader early on. So I am comfortable with the shove of a big bullet.

Now I shoot my 375 H&H and .475 Turnbull quite a bit without much trouble. The 475 from the bench gets me the next day but I think I am leaning forward into it on the bench so its hitting the top of my shoulder not the front.

Frankly, standing, I have a hard time telling 350 grain reduced loads from the 400 full power stuff.

I am also a great fan of Finn Aagaard and follow his advice to get good grip on the forearm and pull it in tight to my shoulder so I doesn't get a running start.

Stock shape also helps especially a wide butt pad. My thin Rem 7600 in 30-06 stings more than the 375/475 because of its narrow butt.

I also favor slower moving bullet, anything fast I think would hurt and haven't shot any 338 mags.

I am the only one of my group that likes the big guns!!

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is bone strength. I happen to be "big boned" and I do think that plays an important part in being able to absorb heavy recoil.

I took martial arts for years, and I know from experience "small boned" people tend to break hand and foot bones more often then big-boned people. And these are people who have spent years conditioning their hands and feet in order to break boards and concrete blocks.

BH63

Hold the forend firmly, but not with a death grip then shoot it like you do any high caliber (not big bore) rifle offhand (don't fight it) and you'll find the recoil is not bothersome. Lean into it on a bench or fight it offhand (leaning forward and deathgripping it) and it will bite you. My two cents

^
That's pretty much how I shoot.

I found it interesting to watch Grumulkin's video where he shoots a .460 Wby without gripping the forend at all. He just let's the rifle jump off the support. I get the best accuracy off the bench when shooting that way, but I never thought to try it with a big bore.

BH63

Video from this past Mother's Day. My 16 year old grandson's introduction to the 460 Weatherby. I believe the heaviest recoil he had experienced before was 12 gauge shotgun. Before we shot, his grandmother saw him sitting on the bench with his head down (looking at his iPhone but she didn't know that) and opined that he was praying.

Introduction to the 460 Weatherby

I don't download anything. We were shooting 500 grain bullets over a full case of powder (VV N160 if I remember correctly).

Great way to introduce a youngster to big bores!

Thanks for the video!

BH63