I know a few folks have done this, and was wondering about the feeding.

With the UM mag box and follower, did it take a great deal of work to get feeding perfected?

Dennis Olson and a 100 dollar bill, std ultra mag box and follower, sunny-hill bottom metal, feeds 350 grain woodweigh's slicker snot.

screwe it together and see how it feeds..
if billy (the cheap bast*rd) hadn't HAD to have 4 down, he would have saved the $$$box and the hundred dollar trip to dennis...

but his gun sure is nice and fun to shoot... and feeds like it's on greased ball bearings

jeffe

How 'bout building a 404J on a M70 .375 action? Any problems you see?

I agree with Jeffe. I have done just that and it feeds like crap through a goose, 3 down and one up the spout. The .300 RUM M70 just takes a little polishing inside (and be sure to smooth up the extractor cut on the new barrel breech) to feed well with .404 Jeffery. Mine handles North Fork FP solids and everything else without a hitch.

If you can find the windowed sheetmetal RUM box, follower and spring parts, the .375 H&H is an easy conversion too. Re-barrel heaven.

The CZ 550 Mag is easy too, that .375 H&H box is perfect as is for the .404 Jeffery. No sour grapes except one cosmetologist's offended sensibilities over the wood to metal fit of the American style stock, we have heard of here on the CZ .404 Jeffery 550 factory job. Less problems with the Lux hogback. Wood does not engulf the floorplate with those. Hey, CZ may just be trying to make a new fashion statement with the American-style stock. Style.

quote:

screwe it together and see how it feeds..
if billy (the cheap bast*rd) hadn't HAD to have 4 down, he would have saved the $$$box and the hundred dollar trip to dennis...

Did Billy go with an after $ market $ box?

LD

Duh,

I should read th whole thread, huh?

Hey Billy,

Are all those things Jeffe says about you true??

quote:

I agree with Jeffe. I have done just that and it feeds like crap through a goose, 3 down and one up the spout. The .300 RUM M70 just takes a little polishing inside (and be sure to smooth up the extractor cut on the new barrel breech) to feed well with .404 Jeffery. Mine handles North Fork FP solids and everything else without a hitch.

RIP,
Does your 404 have the one piece (Williams) bottom metal? I have heard vicious rumors that using that bottom metal reduces capacity to two down.

LD

PS I am working mightily on getting some 9.3 x 70 brass over here. Nyuh, nyuh, Nnyuh.

here is a pic of the factory box setting on the sunny-hill bottom metal, bottom pic

Billy,

That is a fine looking rifle!

LD

Billy,

Nice stock, who did it?

Also, I want to do the Jeff on a left handed M70 Safari Express that's currently in .375 (NIB). I also want at least 3 down, preferably 4. What would the prescription be for this?...
.375 action
New barrel
UM box, follower, spring (does the fact that the action is LH matter with the box?)
Whose stock (presuming a drop box)?
Who would be good to do all the metal, including the barrel?? Olson or Penrod or ????

Am I off base here?

Postdriver,

I did the stock, its on my pattern, piece of Baston walnut. Mike Kokolus turned it. Bill Soverns checkered it at 28 lines. Checkering had not been done in the pic I posted.

As far as putting one together. This is what I would do. Keep in mind, not a lot of work to do this, pretty much screw a barrel on.

I'd get any good gunsmith to scew a Pac-nor barrel on it, thats what I did. Dewight Marshal in Refugio barreled it and did the sites. I sent it to Dennis for feeding.

All ya need is a barrel, Sunny-hill bottom metal, NECG sights.

As far as the stock, you not going to find a dropbox left hand pattern. So you might want to stay with 3 down, unless you want to spend money on a drop box pattern, but making a pattern is not that big a deal. If you werent left handed you could use my pattern.

Postdriver,

I may want to retract my comment about nobody having a left hand mdl 70 dropbox pattern............I bet GAG has one. But with as much wood as they leave on the bottom, its tough to inlet the bottom metal. (its hard enough to inlet straight down 1/4", its real hard to inlet straight for an 1".......I know, I have pattern on a real nice piece of English walnut

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

RIP,
Does your 404 have the one piece (Williams) bottom metal? I have heard vicious rumors that using that bottom metal reduces capacity to two down.

I have the two piece bottom metal, but at least it is all steel. Holds three down with factory RUM box. It is a better fit for the .404 Jeffery than it was for the .300 RUM. The RUM brass has a slightly greater head diameter.

LD

PS I am working mightily on getting some 9.3 x 70 brass over here. Nyuh, nyuh, Nnyuh.

I understand, as I feel the same way about the 9.5x69mm Tornado with a long throat, now known as the .377 Lapua Moja.

But, just for shock effect, here is the .404 Jeffery M70, African Sheep Rifle I:

Oops! Forgot to put the Grateful Dead sticker on the buttstock.
Notice that there is at least some wood in the picture, along with Brown Precision fiberglass. It's a great shooter.

Ouch RIP, that almost hurts my eyes.
My .404j was done up on a M70/300RUM. It feeds fine w/ a bit of polsih here & there. The NF cup points dont' want to feed 100% from the #2 spot, but the new Barnes banded solid are fine. I get 3 down w/ the std. bottom metal. Someday I'll pop for a drop mag & new stock but more hunting trips first.

JC,
billy's gun (and his inletting skills) have few equals, and I mean that in a good way. he is simply the best inlett man I have ever seen... generally the inside of his guns look as nice as the outside.. seriously..

now billy, don't be getting a good head... everyone knows your eyes are bad and you run in bad company...

opps... what did I say about myself?
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Ouch RIP, that almost hurts my eyes.

It's a one-holer with 340 grain North Forks at 2700 fps. Likes 380's at 2525 fps and 400 grainers at 2400 fps, without breaking a sweat.
I am saving the 320 grain GSC HV's for the .427 Lapua Kifaru which is slowly nearing completion: African Sheep Rifle II.

Jeffe,

Yes, my eyes are bad, but I have long arms , the rest is a damn lie

I know RIP, just like funnin ya ! Still trying to get some 340grNFs from Mike, He's promised me he won't forget me this next run.
McCray, my converted RUM, sorry to the guys that have already seen it:

Hey Fred,

I never get tired of looking at that picture of your rifle. I recently got the same stock, and will cut the fore end the same way.

Are you using two piece bottom metal?

LD

Damit Billy I was wondering what to do with that "extra" SS RUM I picked up a couple of years back and now I gots a problem. 375, 404 and 470 to much of a good thing somthing has to go (or maybe not). BTW how did you match the barrel band, plating?????

Gringo and Fred, thanks, I am currently looking for the box and follower. So we will see what developes.

RIP...words escape me!

idahoeelk101,

As Jeffe stated above........I'm cheap, its stainless down to the SS barrel band. Bead blasted it and shot it like I got good sense.

where did you get a stainless barrel band "cheap"

lawndart, it's all original RUM, bottom metal & stock. The cross bolts were added, Pac.Dec. pad, & the forend shortened just a bit. On good days it could be my heavy "varmint" rig!
After looking at RIP's rifle, I thought I should bring some sanity back into the .404j disscusion.

quote:

After looking at RIP's rifle, I thought I should bring some sanity back into the .404j disscusion.

Fred,

Good luck with that. Is that the original RUM stock as well, or did you find a Safari style?

Man so many calibers, and only four receivers in the closet . Then there's that money thing......

LD

quote:

Gringo and Fred, thanks, I am currently looking for the box and follower. So we will see what developes.

RIP...words escape me!

"There are no tiny-gleaming campfires in a city."--RCR

I'll look as well. If you find some buy an extra set for me please. I'll do the same. I'm pretty sure Broownells carries, or carried the box. I'll call them and Winchester to see if either has the follower. That is the key to getting these rifles to feed the 404/RUM/9,3 x 70 cartridges.

Plans B through M are all more expensive. Much more expensive.

lawndart

RIP,

Upon closer examination of your rifle picture, I am begining to discern a common theme amongst most of us "Aficianados". We spend a lot more of our meager disposable income on rifles than we would ever dream of wasting on Ethan Allen furniture or Stainmaster carpeting.

Last week I had just enough cash in my pocket for a long overdue haircut. So now I have three new safety levers for the AR-15/M-16, and I look a little like I did before enlisting back in 1974. Reminds me of the Grateful Dead song, "Touch of Gray".

LD

Ok, I have a dumb question. Do you have to start with a M70 in RUM or can this be done with a M70 in .338 Win Mag?

Thanks

Fireman,

If you start with the Rum, its real easy. If you start with 338 you'll need bottome metal/box from my perspective. Your just about there on the feeding end with a RUM. Mine would feed everything but round nose out of the box.

Heh,heh. 8.5 pounds bare and empty, and very comfortable to shoot and carry all day when scoped, loaded and slung. If Dennis Olson and Kenny Jarrett tag teamed The African Sheep Rifle Numero Uno, they couldn't improve its function or accuracy, even if they started from scratch rather than try to undo my "travesty." As for looks, well, maybe the stock needs to be sanded clean and painted, a textured charcoal gray, but I like it like it is, and each scratch improves its looks as is. I am having a tough time trying to get it to show any usage marks to add character.

With the .404 Jeffery African Sheep Rifle Numero Uno as "light" and the .470 Mbogo "Buffalo Hammer of Thor" as heavy, I have quite the safari battery. However, a .375 Weatherby as backup to anything else makes more sense, as it will shoot the common .375H&H ammo usefully with no dramas ... should ammo be lost in transit.

At least I don't have to worry about damage to rifles in transit.


Billy and Fred have beautiful examples of what can be done with an M70.

I prefer the Leupold QRW mounts like on Fred's (square recoil shoulder on bottom of ring).
The Talley mounts on Billy's are my second choice.

how big a deal to convert a pre64 action to 404?i have a transitional mag action&375 S/G stock.also 06 actions which could be opened up.thanks,kim

KimR,
My Pre-64 M70 .375 H&H holds 4 down in the box as originally set up from the factory. Does yours?

Mine was a 1958 .300 H&H rebarreled to .375 H&H.

This Pre-64 box is wider than the current Classic boxes and about same depth. It should be very easy to fit the .404 Jeffery into. It would require rail work, more labor and skill intensive than just using a Classic RUM action, assuming you want to use the original parts. Of course a .404 Jeffery on a Pre-64 M70 action would be even more deserving of custom bottom metal and pretty wood, unless you are "peculiar" like me.

More cheap furniture and bad carpet:





The front sling swivel base has since been moved to the forend tip position and the scope mounts changed to Leupold QRW's.

That .375 H&H weighs 6.75 lbs bare and empty, with a Brown Precision one pound stock and a No.3 countour Douglas barrel that is 0.625" at the 24" muzzle.

It is priceless, just like the dog named Jack.

I have the original walnut stock and .300 H&H barrel, so I have two "switch action" rifles that share the same action.

Ah RIP, at least you have a good eye for dogs. Jack's a great looking Weimar. My 2nd choice in pooches, 1st choice, Airedale terrier.
lawndart, it's the original RUM stock.

Fred, sounds like you already loaded up some of those Barnes Banded solids and that they feed. If so, that is great news!

Kim R & RIP

I have a Pre-64 M70 300 H&H action. Just for fun, I put three 404J rounds in the mag (it would not hold four) and closed the bolt over them. This action does not have a barrel, but when I cycled the action, it picked up every round and easily pushed them out the front. I'm no expert, but it did not seem like it would be a big deal to get them to feed properly.

Tim

exactly.my 375 will feed 404J from the magazine& 404J fits the boltface.i can use my standard comb pre64 S/G 375 stock&be there fairly easily but ive been tricked before.Thanks.

No Tim, not yet. Laszlo is "tweeking" it a bit. I should get it back soon. I'm going to try the banded solids over my RL19 load which is submoa w/ the older monometal 400gr. Only moving 2150fps but how fast do you want the bullet to exit a buffalo anyway.

For the most part, the conversion of a Classic or a Pre-64 is fairly simple. Dennis Olson can do an exceptional job. He has done two Classics for me in the past on 375 action size Winchesters. After he was done, they were very nice and reliable dangerous game rifles. I currently own 3 404Jeffery rifles and the Winchesters seem to work better than even my original Jeffery.

I called the Browning/Winchester parts department yesterday. No more 300 RUM magazine boxes or followers. I did order a 375/416 box and follower. Ya' never know........

lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Fireman,

If you start with the Rum, its real easy. If you start with 338 you'll need bottome metal/box from my perspective. Your just about there on the feeding end with a RUM. Mine would feed everything but round nose out of the box.

Okay thanks. Looks like I need to trade my .338 for a .300 RUM.

Shumba,
You are right.

I had never tried the .404 Jeffery dummies in the Pre-64 action, though I had threatened to previously.

My Pre-64 .375 H&H/.300 H&H action also easily holds 3 down with room to CRF the fourth round off the top of the box. It holds 4 down in .375 H&H and PF's the fifth round off the top of the box.

It feeds well with .404 Jeffery. Just some minor touches to the rails would make it feed as smoothly as the RUM-boxed Classic.

No windowing of the box would be needed with that wider Pre-64 box.

lawndart needs a Pre-64 M70 in .300 H&H to make a classy .404 Jeffery. I do not expect any Grateful Dead decals on the stock, mind you.