In the quest to not rip you off, yet deliver tops in performance, RIP Arms and DOA Ammo are doing a little market research. <img src="http://www.romulus2.com/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif" alt="thumb" width="25" height="18"><!--graemlin::thumb:--><BR><BR>We are going to offer a "Big Fifty."<BR><BR>This will be either a .505 Gibbs or .408 Chey-Tac necked up to .510 caliber. <BR><BR>This is not a new idea, as for example, Phil Shoemaker once got one of these when he thought he was getting a .505 Gibbs.<BR><BR>It seems his gunsmith <img src="http://gigbitchgraphics.homestead.com/files/emoticons/confused.gif" alt="bewildered" width="20" height="20"><!--graemlin::bewildered:--> inadvertently <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/roflmao.gif" alt="roflmao" width="39" height="15"><!--graemlin::roflmao:--> substitued a .510 barrel for a .505 barrel and simply ran the .505 Gibbs reamer into the wrong barrel. Presto! .510/.505 Gibbs that shoots poorly with .505 caliber bullets.<BR><BR>Well, the .510 Jabba The Hut will be no accident. This will trump the .450 Dakota and the .470 Mbogo, and will be our top of the line Big Bore. The philosophy of RIP/DOA is solidifying into offering only Lapua and Jamison Brass, as the Dakota and Mbogo niches don't need any help. Jamison might be the ultimate source of best quality brass with the DOA headstamp for both the Lapua/Rigby cases and the Gibbs/Chey-Tac cases, eventually.<BR><BR>Either a .338 Lapua Magnum or a .408 Chey-Tac barrel, as appropriate, will be offered with every RIP Arms Rifle. Ammo, brass, and bullets from DOA, and dies from Redding are planned.<BR><BR>Question:<BR>Keeping in mind that Jamison makes the same BEST QUALITY BRASS in both .408 Chey-Tac and .505 Gibbs (Strong-Headed Stuff), what would be the most appealing, best choice, for both the Hunter of Big Beasts and 1000 yard targets???.505 Gibbs simply necked up and special throated..408 Cheyenne Tactical necked up and special throated.

Gee RIP,

With a name like that I was thinking you had decided to neck the T-Rex down to .50 cal.

Hog Killer

HK,
I firmly believe that the .505 Gibbs case head is the biggest that should be used in a sporting rifle. Too bad they didn't know any better than to make it with a .505 caliber bullet way back then. Nowadays a .510 makes a lot more sense, obviously.

Now, with all the modern powders and bullets available, can we make it better by using the .408 Chey-Tac for a bit better shoulder (after losing .005" in the neckup), and a slightly shorter case so that Nickudu will not have to use so much filler with his RL-15 loads???

Yes, I think so too.

Thank you for your response. It is dutifully noted in the tally.

Of course, if ".510 Jabba The Hut" is judged too silly, then it will be either the .510 Gibbs Magnum (straight neckup) or the .510 J&B (.510/.408), which could also be affectionately called the .510 New-JAB.
Ouch.

J is for Jamison, B is for me, as in Ronnie B.

Rip,

My post had to do with the name you choose, not the logic behind the design. Jabba, was a giant fat beast, the T-Rex is a giant fat beast.

As for .510" bullets in a 505Gibbs case, that is what I would do, if I were to build something using the Gibbs case.

Hog Killer

HK,
Thanks for the vote. Yes, bigger than the .505 Gibbs case, it just gets silly.

The .510 Gibbs Magnum is pulling ahead.
That would be the easiest way to go anyway ...
The .510 Jamison Magnum?
The .510 JM.
He deserves some notice for his quality brass.
The shoulder could be slightly modified if factory manufacturing tolerances require it.

505 to give the gibbs brass more life...you can turn down the bullet after the crimp and still have a 505 in spirit if it bothers you or do a paperpatch that would shoot a true 505.i have supported this in the past. a long throated 50-505 and shoot bmg bullets at the range and flat nose for game...the only question is how low can you download and not lose hunting accuracy...its a dandy idea. i assume you could get a c.z. 505 gibbs rebarrel and rethroat right?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
505 to give the gibbs brass more life...you can turn down the bullet after the crimp and still have a 505 in spirit if it bothers you or do a paperpatch that would shoot a true 505.i have supported this in the past. a long throated 50-505 and shoot bmg bullets at the range and flat nose for game...the only question is how low can you download and not lose hunting accuracy...its a dandy idea. i assume you could get a c.z. 505 gibbs rebarrel and rethroat right?

Good thoughts. Any CZ 550 Magnum, or such could be used.

We will want to offer a straight stack banana magazine to go with these.

Thanks again to the Think Tank.

how about the 500 warhawk or 500 longbow 500 tatonka or 500 _______ (what tribe are you?) 500 rip, 500 doa, 500 _______(your favorite hero)

oh, 510 ar...so not to confuse with 500 a2 (an inferior cart by comparison) and jeffeosso is only going to 470

BS,

Accurate 5744, would be a good reduced power loading choice. But I think that bullet lenght and weight, barrel twist, and velocity would need to be considered. In reguards to accuracy.

As for paper patching .505 bullets for a .510 bore, it will not work. With ownly .005", to work with, and most patching paper is .003"+, and two wraps are needed. So, .003x2x2wraps=.012" (The first 2 is for both sides of the bullet per wrap)

Hog Killer

.510 Jamison or .510 Jam. That's jammin'.

quote:

As for paper patching .505 bullets for a .510 bore, it will not work. With ownly .005", to work with, and most patching paper is .003"+, and two wraps are needed. So, .003x2x2wraps=.012" (The first 2 is for both sides of the bullet per wrap)

i think this problem could be handled through swaging...we'll have to ask potts about this one...potts...you out there?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
.510 Jamison or .510 Jam.

.510 Jam, just does not sound right on a DGR cartridge. Does not lead to confidance.

So, it has to be .510 Jamison

Hog Killer

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
.510 Jamison or .510 Jam. That's jammin'.

nah!

dont you want to honor something in your indian heritage? or continue branding of the doa or rip? just do it like any other proprietary cart...500rip!

is there a proprietary cart called 500-d.g.?

500 b.f. for bang-flop or big f#@%er

RIP,

The .510 Gibbs gets my vote. That monster case was a stroke of genius and George Gibbs should get the credit for it--even though his choice of bullet diameter has not withstood the test of time.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
RIP,

The .510 Gibbs gets my vote. That monster case was a stroke of genius and George Gibbs should get the credit for it--even though his choice of bullet diameter has not withstood the test of time.

.510 Gibbs-Jamison for complete designation, and the good ol' .510 Gibbs for short.

That is easy. Clymer has a reamer already that they call the .50-.505 Gibbs that is for .510 bullets, with a 45 degree shoulder and .4000" of parallel sided freebore with 2.5 degree leade and .5120" diameter of freebore. 3.1620 minimum chamber/max brass length. Done. There is 0.068" difference between shoulder diameter and neck-1: 34/1000" per side, more than adequate, if the drawing is correct.

That would be just fine for milsurp bullets.

Clymer has 2 versions of the .505 Gibbs, one with a 25 degree shoulder and another one with a 37 deg. 45' shoulder.

.510 Jam was indeed a bad idea.

RIP/DOA will offer the .510 Gibbs and a switch barrel for .408 Chey-Tac, brass by Jamison.

.308 Lapua
.338 Lapua
.375 Lapua
.408 Chey-Tac
.423 Lapua
.458 Lapua
.510 Gibbs

Still looks like the 470 Mbogo would fill a gap there. Maybe a .475/.408 Chey-Tac?

just a question.. and really not being a dork..

is there any practical diff in the 458 lapua and the 450 rigby?

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
just a question.. and really not being a dork..

is there any practical diff in the 458 lapua and the 450 rigby?

jeffe

Bro' Jeffe,
I don't think there is any significant difference, because I load that 1/4" shorter case with 1/4" more bullet sticking out the front and fill the same magazine with it.

There is just less bullet buried in the case and so not wasting powder space.

It will do the same as the factory loaded .450 Dakota, as it has a long throat and bullets are seated out farther.

It is easier to get to feed well with that geometry and .416 Rigby case body taper.

The .450 Rigby has the case body blown out and less body taper. It is not just a necked up .416 Rigby, as I am sure you know.

The .458 Lapua can be loaded down by seating the bullets deeper and shortening the throat. Then it would be perfect for a 3.600" box instead of a 3.850" box. One quarter inch to play with, your choice.


This hummer will work in a Winchester M-70 with proper box and feed rails.

Any .458 Win Mag M-70 could thus be made to use it, with special bottom metal, and beat the pants off a .458 Lott.

With bullets like the North Fork and Barnes TSX in .458 there are multiple crimping options for seating short or long.


The .458 Lapua is the coolest of .458's, IM(biased)O.

Hey, since my relatives left Kentucky and went down to settle Porter, Texas sometime after 1790, we might be related.

I'll keep it all in the family and donate the RIP/DOA line to the AR Werkes if you want to offer a non-rebate to members. We could give them a toaster or sumptin' with each rifle you build for RIP Arms, instead of a rebate.

Jeffe,
Feast your eyes on the .458 Lapua next to the .470 Mbogo one more time (please excuse the spherical distortion due to the closeup/lens boogie):

Lengths of the Lapua line brass:
.338: 2.724"
.375: 2.700"
.423: 2.684"
.458: 2.666": the mark of the beast fireformed

Others:
.470 Mbogo: 2.945"
.408 Chey-Tac: 3.025"
.505 Gibbs: 3.150"

(sumbuddy correct me if any of the figures are wrong)

Next weekend:
The .510 Gibbs will be added to the lineup along with a .408 Chey-Tac. Good night.

Rip,
hmm, Bro, we always worth together!! HEH, don't get into bloodlines.. i am from arkansas.. and loads of the old 300 are kin to me, from "up stream"..

take that "lap-pwah" brass.. cut it off at 2.730, run it into a 500 jeffe forming die... what you get?

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Of course, if ".510 Jabba The Hut" is judged too silly, then it will be either the .510 Gibbs Magnum (straight neckup) or the .510 J&B (.510/.408), which could also be affectionately called the .510 New-JAB

How 'bout --- .510 PUNJAB

RIP, would you post pix of the Gibbs and CheyTac cases for us?

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread yet, but I think that naming it the 510 jabba the hut is a definite good idea. lots of geeky star wars fans around that would want one because of the name maybe, bringing costs down for the rest of us. just wishful hoping?

what is the selection like on 510 bullets? don't answer that if it is above, I'll go back and read them all later.

Red

See 500 Dark Continent in past threads for reference. Granted, it is a shorter case but is based on Jamison high pressure brass. I guess it's time to get off my a** and build the thing. Reamer specs are printed and reamer's on the way tommorrow.

Respectfully,

---Catter

I voted for 505 case necked up because the 408 and 505 from Jamison are identical, IIRC.

---Catter

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
I didn't take the time to read the whole thread yet, but I think that naming it the 510 jabba the hut is a definite good idea. lots of geeky star wars fans around that would want one because of the name maybe, bringing costs down for the rest of us. just wishful hoping?

what is the selection like on 510 bullets? don't answer that if it is above, I'll go back and read them all later.

Red

In .510", you've got all the cast and jacketed bullets for the 500 Linebaugh for plinking, running in the ~300-450 gr range, then for hunting, there are the 535 gr softs and solids for the 500 Jeffrey, the 570 gr soft/solids for the 500 NE, and a smattering of 600 gr softs and solids from various manufacturers. Best yet is long throating and using a fast twist barrel, you can use 50 bmg milsurp or match pills, get 2/3-3/4 the velocity of a bmg while burning about 1/2 the powder in a hunting weight rifle.

My shooting buddy still has a bruise on his arm from when I let him fire my 500 Jeffrey loaded with a 690 gr AP round. He made the mistake of letting the butt slide off his recoil pad guranteed he won't do that again course, I don't think he'll ever fire the gun again

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Rip,
hmm, Bro, we always worth together!! HEH, don't get into bloodlines.. i am from arkansas.. and loads of the old 300 are kin to me, from "up stream"..

take that "lap-pwah" brass.. cut it off at 2.730, run it into a 500 jeffe forming die... what you get?

jeffe

Lapua basic straight cylindrical brass with a wrinkle???

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:


How 'bout --- .510 PUNJAB

RIP, would you post pix of the Gibbs and CheyTac cases for us?

I like that!

Yep, I'll post the pic later just to keep the thread alive.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
... I think that naming it the 510 jabba the hut is a definite good idea. lots of geeky ...

Red

Appeals to this geek too.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildcatter:
See 500 Dark Continent in past threads for reference. Granted, it is a shorter case but is based on Jamison high pressure brass. I guess it's time to get off my a** and build the thing. Reamer specs are printed and reamer's on the way tommorrow.

Respectfully,

---Catter

I do recall your 'cat. Good show. I'll do the straight .510 Gibbs and decide what pet name later.

Paul,
Thanks for the input. I'm cruisin for a bruisin'
... What cheer!

I'm short on 'puter time so later ...

I would have to vote for the 510 Ele Slayer or the 510 Bulldog

Of course you would now, wouldn't you "Bulldog? "

The .510 Gibbs and .408 Chey-Tac will be added to the RIP/DOA Ammo photo lineup Friday.

That will be a nice addition to the line. Another switch-barrel offering.
Got Lapuas, got Gibbs.

Jeffe, I suppose the next logical extension is the 550 Gibbs ?

HA!

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Jeffe, I suppose the next logical extension is the 550 Gibbs ?

Bad Forrest!