BTW, thank you for the xmp 5744 data; It's a great help.

50 grains of 5744 behind 535 gas check will give you around 1650fps, erratic accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
50 grains of 5744 behind 535 gas check will give you around 1650fps, erratic accuracy.

Forrest, a case full of WC 860 or 5010 will do almost as well for 1/4 the cost and better accuracy.

How much is a case full?

Pretty much literally. It is so slow you can't overload. Like H870 or 50 BMG, it runs arounds 20,000 psi with 103-105% fill and a 570 gr Woodleigh. That's on the conservative side. I get about 1400 fps in the 550 Mag with all I can put in the case and still seat a bullet. On the down side you get a some unburned granules in the bore but that has never caused me a problem. I think the lube grooves sweep it out shot to shot with cast bullets. Some folks duplex it with some Bulleye for cleaner burning but I'm not that sophisticated yet.

Today I tested the following loads:

Barnes TSX 570 gr .509.
115.0 Varget for 2290
115.0 Varget for 2306

113.0 H4895 for 2306 (again; not a typo)
113.0 H4895 for 2302

Barnes Banded Solid 570 gr .509
113.0 H4895 for 2372
113.0 H4895 for 2368

Loading the TSX was an interesting experiment. I was hoping to work my way up to about 118-120 gr of Varget, but I found it very difficult to fit more than 115 gr of Varget in the case, even with significant compression. Consulting the A2 reloading manual H4895 appeared to be the most compact powder tested, so I tried a load 2 gr less than the listed working maximum. Even 113.0 gr of H4895 was equally difficult to fit.

Obviously, the TSX is a BIG bullet and it eats up case capacity. Even with the H4895, velocities were quite low. I was hoping to reach 2450-2500 as others have done, but I clearly need to change something.

Any hints or suggestions are welcome.

the TSX is liek .35 longer than any conventional bullet of the same weight .. and MOST conventional bullets are VERY short ... the 600 isn't much longer than the 535, of the same nose.

when i burn I-4895, at 93gr, i get 2100 from my 500 AccRel ...

if you are using that much capacity up, change to a faster powder, and back WAY off ...

i prefer h335 for EVERYTHING .. it just works for me
jeffe

who's got an A2 reamer?

I have one somewhere, made by Dave Kiff, used once.

Forrest,
I may need it .. found an enfield action, got that barrel from you... there it is .. another .510 for me to shoot!

Analog-You have to get away from the single base stick powders
if you want 24-2500 with the lowest pressures. Use double
base stick like RE15, RE17, RE19 and double base ball,
like W760, H414, W748, BLC-2, H335. Ed

Jeffeosso suggested H335, which looks promising. Any suggestions for starting loads?

Thanks

In a lot of my testing I don't start with H335, I do two
speeds of ball powder slower, and if no pressure signs and
chrono readings low, I go up and may end up using H335.

For me I'd start with 95% load of W760 or H414 and go up to full..
If not fast enough, start 90% fill with W748 or BLC2 go up,, if
not fast enough and no pressure signs start 90% H335.Do the same.
If others on here have done W760, and no pressure signs you could
start with the W748 level.

Now some don't want to get the extra powder this entails, but
if you doing big bores you need ball ones down to at least W780 speed,
and maybe Alliant from RE15 to RE 25 as you go.. Some on here
recommend RE 15.

You'll have easier time developing loads and much better
results and fun. And when you doing this load developement you don't
need 5 shots of every combination. One when your starting and 2-3 when
are getting close to what you shooting for.Velocity is the holly grail
of our mad hobby and in most cases you get the goal in rifles, by getting
away from the IMR shelf.Ed

this is a quickload projection, and NOT reloading data. This is intended for educational purposes ONLY - Remember, quickload is a tool, and you requested data of what it says.

again this is a projection, NOT TESTED RELOADING DATA -- use at your own risk

90gr of h335 with a 570gr XLC (no TSX in the file, yet) at 3.74, says 55K psi, 2250 fps

at 3.65 QL says 60K and 2263fps.

I would think that you could work up a load from here.

Ed - I agree, start with charcoal then work your way to h335 .. i use h335 from 223 to 550 express!

Thanks for the info.

Last night, following the good advice suggested in previous comments, I tried RL 15 again. I was surprised to find how much more compact it was than either Varget or H4895, and I was able to load cases with either 116.0 or 118.0 gr and only reasonable compression. 118.0 gr is the highest charge listed with the 600 A2 Dead Tough bullet in the A2 manual, but the listed pressure is quite low compared to other listed pressures, and I got the impression that the listed maximum was based more on cartridge capacity than excessive pressure.

With luck, I'll be able to chrono these loads this weekend and get some feedback on the generated velocities.

I'm still very interested in testing with the H335, and will do so as soon as I can pick up a bottle.

I spent some time last night on the Hodgdon site looking at comparisons between H4895 and H335 loads in cases with only modest bottlenecks. I compared loads in .350 RM, .458 WM., etc, and the charges for H335 and H4895 tend to be fairly similar in cases with either no or a modest bottleneck. To be honest, the QuickLoad pressure estimates seem much higher than the pressure generated by a similar quantity of H4895; however, I like my fingers, toes, and other protuberances just as they are and will choose the path of discretion by testing at the 90 gr level as suggested by QuickLoad. The chrono will tell me where I stand quickly enough, and, as you've pointed out, it's much better than be too low than too high. Besides, the testing process is both interesting and fun.

Once again, thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

a-p,

In my rifle, with 600 grain bullets ahead of between 110 and 112.5 grains of RL-15 (depending on the lot), I have always managed to get the velocities listed in the A2 manual for a 118 grain load!

I'm pretty sure that in my rifle, a 118 grain load would be WAY over pressure.

All this is by way of saying - be careful!

My rifle seems to have a more generous chamber than yours, but I appreciate the head's up. I'll be careful, for sure.

In earlier testing, I got the following result:

RL 15 110.0 gr 570 gr Barnes Banded Solids for 2325 fps.

The TSX bullets have been running about 70-75 fps slower than the solid for the same charge of powder. I haven't refined my testing, but I guess that I'll end up with my solids using 1.5/2.0 less powder than the TSX. My guess is that it will take 112.0 gr of RL15 to even break 2300 fps, which is a considerably different velocity than you achieved. Since my rifle seems to produce results identical to those in the A2 manual with similar bullets and powders, I am hoping that my results with RL 15 will continue to mirror their experiences.

The A2 manual max load of H4895 with the 600 gr Dead Tough is 115.0 gr; I tried 113.0 (all I could get in the case) with the TSX and barely broke 2300 fps. I'm really hoping that RL 15 or H335 will have the greater volume density that I need to reach 2450 fps or similar.

a_p,
Did you say what length your barrel was?
Is it an A-Square built Hannibal with 1:10" twist McGowen barrel?

I think Art is the culprit for getting McGowen started on all the fast-twist-big-bore barrels.

Do you have the standard .4" long parallel-sided freebore like Dave Manson puts on his 500 A-Square reamers?

Don't forget that the TSX bullets are undersize and produce lower pressures and velocities.
They may be .508" in a .510"-grooved barrel.

Not ideal.

As to your previous question on the other thread, about Benchmark with 570-grainers.
I would not go there.

RL-15 seems to be the fastest powder with the lowest pressure for speed obtained, with 570-600-grainers in the 500A2.

RL-17 might be interesting if it has a greater density than RL-15.

Varget is almost as good as RL-15, and it is more temperature insensitive than any others.
And RL-15 is middle of the road for temperature insensitivity. It ain't bad in any way.

But Varget requires a couple grains more powder to equal RL-15 velocity, at possibly higher pressure ... based on SWAG, QuickLoad, and real world gossip and experience.

In the A-Square manual pressures and velocities for 500A2 I do indeed trust, as do you, apparently.
"Irregardless" of Scottie Boy.

DRG: Kiss my Grits.

a-p,

I am getting around 150-200 fps more out of my rifle with loads using 570 Barnes bullets and 110-112.5 grains of RL-15 than you are.

It could be because my rifle has a 25 inch barrel with a 1 in 14" twist rate - not to mention who knows what other dimensional differences.

For me the TSX and Banded Solid bullets shoot to the same point of aim at the same velocities, which I can achieve by loading the TSXs with 0.3 to 0.5 grain of additional powder.

This thread funny!!!!!!!!!! You all must have MUCH larger cases than I have as the powder compression for all powders mentioned using a TSX is way beyond EXTREME at the powder charges you guys are talking about!

Anyone of you rocket scientists ever chronograph any A Square factory ammo. In my rifle the A2 factory stuff, which is said to be loaded to around 63 ksi, only goes 2300 fps. I have a 1 in 12" twist and a 23" barrel.

Have fun playing around though, you must have access to a lot more primers than I do.

The rifle is a stock A2 Hannibal with a 23" magnaported barrel. I believe you are correct about the 1:10" McGowen barrel. FWIW, the barrel has also been cryo treated, although I'm not sure that has any meaningful effect on it. I don't know about the freebore; it should be completely stock, whatever that works out to be.

I discovered that Varget was too bulky to work well with the TSX bullet. With the banded solid, it appeared to generate about the same velocity as an equivalent load of RL 15, but the sample size was very limited.

I looked at Benchmark because it was slower than N133 for which I found a load on reloadersnest. It is commonly used in quantities very similar to H335 when I examined loads on the Hodgdon website for high expansion ratio cases. Since I had a bottle of it on hand, I was interested. I picked up a bottle of H335 today, and it appears to be less bulky by weight than Benchmark, and thus more suitable for my application, even if a lower charge of Benchmark would work.

RL 17 is interesting, but I haven't had a chance to see whether it's too bulky. As a substitute for IMR 4350, it's probably great, but I'm not sure I can fit enough of it in the case under a monometal bullet to generate satisfactory velocities.

To be perfectly honest, I don't often stray from the beaten path when I reload. The only reason why I'm exploring currently is the shortage of .500 A2 reloading data for the TSX. As a general rule, I don't regard it as a very sensible practice.

Ream it out to a cartridge with more case capacity and you will have NO problem satisfying your desire to achieve 2500 fps! It ain't rocket science man!! FWIW Mrlexma has a defective chronograph period, IMHO!! As I have said before this thread FUNNY!!

If you have put me on ignore, seriously it is YOUR loss. Then again what else would one expect from a Texan.

Well, I made it to the range and shot the following loads today:

570 TSX H335 90.0 gr 1952
570 TSX H335 95.0 gr 2041
570 TSX H335 100.0 gr 2116
570 TSX H335 105.0 gr 2222

570 TSX Benchmark 90.0 gr 2057
570 TSX Benchmark 95.0 gr 2164
570 TSX Benchmark 100.0 gr 2259

570 TSX RL 17 125.0 gr 2385
600 Woodleigh RL 17 120.0 gr 2222

570 TSX RL 15 116.0 gr 2372
570 TSX RL 15 116.0 gr 2376

570 TSX RL 15 118.0 gr 2402
570 TSX RL 15 118.0 gr 2406

Observations:
Not unexpectedly my results with RL 17 and the 600 Woodleigh were identical to my results with IMR 4350.
I was surprised by the comparatively high velocity achieved by RL 17 with the TSX. The load was compressed and I'm not sure much more powder could be shoveled into the case. It would appear to be a very effective load of moderate pressure.
H335 appears to be very predictable with every 5 gr of powder producing roughly 100 fps increase in velocity.
Benchmark appears to be just as predictable, but uses a charge of roughly 5-7% less to achieve the same results.
RL 15 appears to be just as predictable as the others. 118.0 gr required only modest compression and it's probably possible to add a few more grains of powder, if desired.

My guess is that H335 will ultimately be the most convenient powder for full tilt loads, but I'm leaning toward Benchmark for "reduced" loads. For all-around use, it really does appear that RL 15 is king.

Mandatory disclaimer: as mrlexma has so clearly demonstrated above, differing rifles generate vastly differing chamber pressure. These results are valid in my rifle only.

quote:

Mandatory disclaimer: as mrlexma has so clearly demonstrated above, differing rifles generate vastly differing chamber pressure. These results are valid in my rifle only.

Your results are very close to what I have gotten in two separate 500 A2 rifles. Mrlexma is the one with a special rifle, since A2 seems to be in line with your results and mine. I still say A2's pressure data is published with the wrong units of pressure.