I'm still stuck on the CZ .458 WM I handled a few days ago. As I troll throughmy catalogs and loading manuals, it strikes me that the .458 is actually a pretty versatile caliber. It's not a long-range proposition and never will be, but with all the bullets available from the little Barnes 300-grain X bullet to the big bruiser 510s, there are a lot of flavors to choose from. Added to that is that it's a perfect candidate for all the bullets I've cast for the .45-70. One of my favorite plinkers is the little Lee 325 over 17 grains of Unique in the .45-70. I suspect a load something like this would be just as much fun out of the big CZ as it is out of a Marlin lever gun. Anyone out there have some favorite plinkers and medium-weight bullet loads for their Winnies?

just ream it out to the lott for uberversatility

Somewhere around 60 grains of RL-7 with casts in the 350-405 range are good plinker rounds.

Halve that with 2400 and the same bullets and you cut the velocity in half and still get consistent performance even with the extra case space.

Spose it depends on how light you want your loads to be and if you want them to be going 1200 or 2200. I like RL-7 with 405s. They make a nice thunk when they hit the gong.

405 grainers at around 2000 are good and fairly inexpensive for general shooting, in either the Win or Lott.

400 grain Swift A-frames at 2100-2200 fps makes a great all around load for North American game. Easily a 200+ yard load too.

The 450 SAF has a really good BC and at 2250 fps it rivals the 375s and 416s for versatility. Same can probably be said for 450g north forks.

458 win shines with 400-450 grain bullets in my opinion. Leave the 500 grainers for the Lott, and then only if you really are hunting elephants.

Another versatile load ... 350gr Hornady RN infront of 67gr AR2207 (H4198) for 2470fps from a 22" barrel.
The Lott is a great cartridge but recoil starts to become obnoxious ... the 458WM is still a great cartridge for the reloader.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
405 grainers at around 2000 are good and fairly inexpensive for general shooting, in either the Win or Lott.

Bonus, if like many of us, you also have a .45-70 or two. At 18-2200 the same bullets work fine in either.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'm still stuck on the CZ .458 WM I handled a few days ago. As I troll throughmy catalogs and loading manuals, it strikes me that the .458 is actually a pretty versatile caliber. It's not a long-range proposition and never will be, but with all the bullets available from the little Barnes 300-grain X bullet to the big bruiser 510s, there are a lot of flavors to choose from. Added to that is that it's a perfect candidate for all the bullets I've cast for the .45-70. One of my favorite plinkers is the little Lee 325 over 17 grains of Unique in the .45-70. I suspect a load something like this would be just as much fun out of the big CZ as it is out of a Marlin lever gun. Anyone out there have some favorite plinkers and medium-weight bullet loads for their Winnies?

I use to load a really light load for my 45-70 trapdoor 340 gr cast bullet and 10 gr unique with a ¼ sheet of tp over the powder to hold it in place. I didn’t have a chronograph back then but estimated it at 750 – 800 fps. I am with you on liking the .458 win mag. It is a verey versatile cartridge. That being said I have started using a 458 Lott, not for more velocity but to do the same velocity as the 458 win mag at lower presser.
I am trying to get my reloading bench set up again and will post some of my trials with light loads.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
That being said I have started using a 458 Lott, not for more velocity but to do the same velocity as the 458 win mag at lower presser.
Bill

G'day Bill. Just by memory, all the reloaders now getting 2150 fps or so from the WM seem to state they have no pressure signs. I also noticed one from Africa recently.

As the .458WM isn't really a high pressure round anyway, is pressure a problem or just an excuse to change something? After all a .458 WM is hardly a stranger to Africa.

Personally, I've never had the slightest ejection problem.

My 458wm is a double rifle and with 500gr Woodleigh solids loaded to 2135fps there are no issues, and no temperature issues even in the hottest in the Zambezi Valley.

JPK

Hi JAL, JPK,
Well that’s my excuse and I am sticking to it. You are right. With the current powders available you can get 500 gr bullets to 2150 and a little more with out extraction problems. 50,000 to 52,000 CUP. My use of the Lott just extends the versatility of the 458 win mag because I can go to near 2300 fps I haven’t cronographed any that fast but several have posted claming more. You have to know how long the barrel is as obviously a longer barrel will give higher readings. I will run some over my chronograph with both of my Lotts and see what reality is. I don’t know how hot it gets in the Zambezi Valley but I know how hot it gets around hear. I have ben on the range when it was over 105 degrees I haven’t had any problems with heat induced high presser problems.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'm still stuck on the CZ .458 WM I handled a few days ago. As I troll throughmy catalogs and loading manuals, it strikes me that the .458 is actually a pretty versatile caliber. It's not a long-range proposition and never will be, but with all the bullets available from the little Barnes 300-grain X bullet to the big bruiser 510s, there are a lot of flavors to choose from. Added to that is that it's a perfect candidate for all the bullets I've cast for the .45-70. One of my favorite plinkers is the little Lee 325 over 17 grains of Unique in the .45-70. I suspect a load something like this would be just as much fun out of the big CZ as it is out of a Marlin lever gun. Anyone out there have some favorite plinkers and medium-weight bullet loads for their Winnies?

The 458 will never be anything else than a close quarters combat weapon. That said, my personal choice in the woods of Michigan has always been my trusty #1 458 Lott.

Recent loads:
350gr Speer over 67gr IMR 4198
400gr Speer over 30 gr SR4759
500gr Hornady solid over 76gr of H335

All of these loads can be used for 458WM as well, and can be found in the Speer & Hornady manuals. Have fun - the 458 WM/Lott is a very versatile caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
just ream it out to the lott for uberversatility

Boomstick, Thank you so much. This is what I've been advocating all along on his previous thread, and I've gotten nothing but grief for it. In my opinion, there really isn't any reason not to convert the win mag into the Lott. Everybody already knows this, but you can shoot any win mag load plus lott loads. Some people just won't concede that converting to a Lott is really the best thing you can do to the 458.

Also, Oregon Bill said that the 458 will never be a long range caliber. This is true for the win mag, but the Lott is capable of shooting as flat as a 416. So I ask, why not convert to a Lott?

Oregon Bill- Think about this. If you convert your win mag to a Lott, you'll have the option of loading it to shoot a 400 grained bullet at roughly 2,400 fps... this duplicates the 416 loads. With these ballistics, You're only dropping around 20 inches, if zeroed at 100 yards, at 300 yards.

The Lott could honestly be a very capable one gun arsenal for a safari. One could shoot 350 or 400 grained solids on the really small stuff, 400 grained bullets on the larger sized plains game, and 550 grained bullet on cape buff or ele (you'd obviously have to use either open sights or different scopes sighted in for each load with QD mounts).

I too once thought that I wouldn't need a Lott because I had no desire to shoot 500 grained bullets at any faster than 2,100fps. But, once I realized the over all increase in handloading potential that you get from converting to a Lott, I understood that I would just be selling the rifle short if I left it as a win mag. If I were to keep just one big bore in my arsenal, the Lott would certainly be my choice because of its versatility. I wouldn't be able to say the same for the win mag.

Guys: Appreciate your encouragement, and hope to have a .458 some day. But I ended up buying the CZ 550 Safari Magnum in .375 instead of .458. It makes more sense in a number of ways. But there's simply nothing like a true big bore. So there's a Lott in my future -- sooner, I hope, than later.

......I was out plinking today with my 458 Mark X today ... #50 gr Hornady rn ,,Moly coated , loaded to around 2500 fps ..Kind of a standard deer load ...But slower is better ..The 375 is always a right choice but a 458 is better if you can hit with it as well as most can with the 375 ..I have killed alot of deer with that round also ...

well if you wont chamber to the lott do you see anything wrong with at least throating it to load out to lott length for the same case capacity with win mag brass and just load single long versions.

You might lose a tad of accuracy but gain 150 fps.

Sorry to barge in I am compltemplaiting a DG and the five big in the coming summer in Namibia and shot the 458 LOTTS recently. I cam acoss this post and wonder if anybody (more experience) members can help. Can somebody help me with loads for

practicing on a range
hunting loads and suggestion of buffalo heads

range I really would like to use it is 80 - 120 yards.

Would the more experience members advocate iron sights or 1- 4 power scopes

Thank you in advance

Londonhunter
UK

Also what is the drop at 200 yards just in case this is needed

You should do a search here for loads. You will find the search function on the upper left side of the display. The Hornaday manual gives a good sevlection of loads as well.

A 500 grain soft or solid at 2150fps will be plenty for anything and that is easily achievable in a 458wm, let alone a Lott. Woodeighs will work very well, especially the solid. A tougher soft may be better, like a North Fork or Trophy Bonded or Swift A Frame... Softs for lion, leopard and the first shot at buff. Solids for subsequent shots at buff and for any shot at an elephant.

Get a copy of the book "The Perfect Shot." Lots of great info.

For buff, a scope like a 1x4 or so is more versatile than open sights.

For baited lion and leopard, where a shot may well be in poor light, a scope is essential and a really good 1.1x4 or so, from Schmidt & Bender or Swarovski, is the minimum, a really good 1.5x6 will be better.

For leopard and lion, I would choose a lighter rifle for hunting over bait.

For elephant, a scope is a serious handicap. You loose too much perspective and who needs a scope to hit a 5" target a 25yds?

JPK

I've the CZ550 458 American Safari Lott. That rifle is about 300 FPS Faster then the 458 Win.

Other then that They are like brothers.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/battery_1125/

this should shed some light on the lott

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick: do you see anything wrong with at least throating it to load out to lott length

My CZ hogsback in 458WM will take a 450gn tsx at 3.60" no modification required.

....,.,Boomie.,.,you need to go do some shootin..