Looking into buying a new 375 H&H and had my mind set on a CZ 550 americvan safari, but now i see that winchester again has there model 70 safari express back. I guess these are out of there south carolina plant.Any opinions on which rifle might be the better to buy? AQnd why?

I don't own any CZs, but one factor in their favor is that they will hold six rounds.

George

I recently got a look at one of those Remingon 798 (classic M98 Mausers) selling at $1000 new retail in a local gun shop. That $599 closeout price, guys were talking about in another thread, looks like a really sweet deal. If you want a bargin price those 798's looked very nice for $600 bucks. Better than the M700 safari custom shop over priced POS.

I have a CZ and its a little heavy, but if you like the weight its also a six shooter. I have a M70 also and I think that is a little closer to optimum weight and 100% reliable out of the box. My CZ got the AHR upgrades. The CZ has a 25 in bbl and M70 is 24, I think 22 would be better. I prefer the Win M70 between these two.

Looks like the new winchester's will be good to go out of the box. The bear bone CZ's usually need cross bolts and bedding done. The CZ USA factory jobs tend to be good out of the box though.

John

quote:

The bear bone CZ's usually need cross bolts and bedding done.

This is simply not true. What they NEED is the feeding worked over for reliability and 3 position bolt safety is nice. The later two upgrades, you get right out of the box with the M70.

CZ bedding and cross bolts is corrected and no longer a problem.

I have seen, don't own one, several of the CZ's 375HH and to me the action/rifle seems a bit on the rough side. I think that you would find the Winchester to be finer finished and when you consider the other offerings out there, CZ, Ruger RSM's, and the Winchester they are priced well. Ruger RSM's very nice rifle, a bit on the heavy side which is not a negative to me, but more than twice the price of the Winchester's asking MSRP. Just me, but I would opt today for the Model 70 375HH for the dollars involved.

Smooth CZ action,replace bot handle,Timney trigger,Krieger or other quality replacement barrel,barrel swivel.A Ruger is good too.I like the tight fitting magazine, excellent barrel,trigger and safety too.The Ruger is not as good as the CZ in ejecting cases.I think both the CZ and Ruger would benefit from a replacement striker spring.I have a couple of Ruger, Wolff striker springs on order.I wish I knew where I can get one for my CZ.I think the recoil lug on the CZ does a better job than that on the Ruger,in keeping POI.

here is the thread on the give away prices for 375H&H on Mauser 98 actions ($499, $599 each!):

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/2071047421

They feel about as rough than a CZ. This is the bargain dejour.

If you want hassle free, good value, I would bet on the Win M70 (have not seen a new one yet, though). For low cost and classic, this M98 is worth some consideration - if any remain?

You can also use the search engine here to look at AHR. Wayne Jacobsen is the owner/builder and he does magic on CZ's. As has been posted, they are a six-shooter in .375H&H. None of my CZ's have been "rough" as some intimate; and I own them in 9,3x62. ,375H&H, .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery, .450 Dakota, and a .505 Gibbs. If you like the set-trigger, the CZ has one. Mine are all about four pounds unset, and a pound and a half set. Makes it nice if you have ten to fifteen seconds to glass the game animal before firing.

Rich

get a cz, have it by the end of the week, and shoot/reload/shoot it ...

new winchesters are made from unobtainium currently .. don't wait, get your 375 and go shoot...

better deal .. get a 458 lott, and reload it low and build up

American Rifleman reviewed wth Win. Mod. 70 from over their history of production. Consensus was that the new ones live up to the Winchester reputation.

Sorry, I can't find the date of publication. Within the past 9 mo. Seems like it was a cover story.

which M70 reputation? They have at least five variations/build sites/designs. Pre-64, Post-64 but pre-USRAC, post-USRAC, FN, or current?
Was that the same magazine that less than a year ago was singing the praises of the 798/799? We saw where that went.

As Jeffe said, you can have a CZ in a week and be shooting it. Some of its alleged shortcomings are compared to expensive factory or custom work. Ask how many here have taken one to Africa and how it performed.

Rich
all of mine work, all of the time, to date.

No offense, DC, .. I haven't seen a new SC bigbore or laid my hands on one .. however, i HAVE seen the 798, and the stock "fitting" ... comparing them to a 798 in terms of stock is just mean, and unfair.

let me return to myoriginal point, which may have been too subtle .. you can have a cz NOW, just slap down your coins and it will be shipped .. no surcharges, no waiting, no fees, no limited anything ...

a m70 in 458 lott? why, thats a custom shop ONLY deal ... 416 rigby? aint happening.. they made TWO from the custom shop ... 375? sure .. WHEN can you get it?

NOT a dangerous game setup below
get a cz, in 458 lott, load 300gr HP to 2500fps and learn something about SD, and then go to 405s at 2400 ... then 500gr at 2150 ... and then 500gr at 2300 ... trust me, there's a BUNCH to learn from 300 to 500gr... lessons that can't be learned with a medium

Since we cannot time travel to the future when Winchester MAY see fit to actually build some...

Buy the CZ. You won't lose a dime when you sell it.

DC: can you post pictures of yours? Nobody else here has even seen one. Including me, and I was at the SHOT Show for two days.

Rich

Insinuating that I don't own one of the new FN M70s? Well, I do, a 30-06 and the .375s should be along shortly and if this rifle is any indication they will be well worth waiting for. Fit, finish, nicely figured walnut, smoothness of the action, better trigger, better safety, everything that makes a M70 a nicer rifle than a CZ.

Sorry, if you feel I am insulting your collection of CZs but anyone who has ever owned one knows they are rough as a cob and not nearly as nice of a rifle as a M70. I know too, I've owned plenty of both.

I was impressed with how smooth the new Mod 70 actions are. I tried quite a few samples at a store a month or two back. They were actually smoother than the New Haven guns I own out of the box. From a fit and finish perspective they looked every bit as nice a gun.
I have a CZ in a 458 Lott. It is a "larger" weapon.
As others have mentioned, the magazine holds a lot of rounds; especially good for the Lott-adds a little weight. I have seldom seen the need for more than one well placed bullet, but you never know?

Thanks for all your opinions,i guess i cant go wrong eithwer way although i like tghe looks of the winchester, i guess i'll go and handle both and make my dicesion then. Thanks again

Just wanted to add that the cz safari and american safrari 's all now come wlth Two cross bolts.

who the hell cares how it is out of the box? is anyone here foolish enough to face DG without having the rifle checked over for function by a competent gunsmith?

once they are gone over all of the major producer's rifles seem to enjoy a fine reputation. i had a named smith go over my cz 550 and it works well. perhaps it was jeffeosso who said on a different thread that the cz is an action where you can do a little or a lot to. yet, at it's base it's a dependable Mauser variant design just like the M70 (my words).

even if you don't go hunt DG and just want a 375 there is nothing wrong with having a competent smith go through it. I like the CZ. the next step for me is to start working on the stock to get it right then have it duplicated into the nice piece of walnut I have waiting for it. i'll rust blue it then go hunting.

The CZ american 375 h&h I had, came with 2 crossbolts and very nice walnut, but it absolutely would not feed. I mean there was no way to get a round into the chamber without sliding it in by hand. That being said, I spent about 5 hours of time grinding the claw so it didn't bind on the cartridge and smoothing and shaping the feed rails. after that it fead as smooth as butter and shot very accurately. In the end I sold it though because I wanted something a little lighter in that caliber. CZ's are a hit and miss with feeding, but are good guns over all. The new winchesters would be hard to turn down though.

The CZ has all the right stuff, especially after being smoothed up, but damn! The one's I have used are heavy enough to tie a medium sized water craft to. My .375 weighs just 7 -3/4 lbs, and is a joy to carry and point quickly, and shoots very well. CZs are about 10 lbs and feel like a boat anchor. I would think that for dangerous game, handling makes a difference.

Owning at least one of each, and knowing quite well what it takes to make each of them a proper DG rifle, My first choice - considering price vrs benefits - would be the Win M-70.

I do not own a CZ but I do have 3 of the older BRNO's, two of which have been to Africa four times on DG hunts. They are working guns and not slick or pretty although they can be made so. When I return to Africa it will be with one of the BRNO's and a 470.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
Looking into buying a new 375 H&H and had my mind set on a CZ 550 americvan safari, but now i see that winchester again has there model 70 safari express back. I guess these are out of there south carolina plant.Any opinions on which rifle might be the better to buy? AQnd why?

Tanoose:

I would like to make another suggestion to you. I have owned a number of different .375 H&Hs over the years. However, once I was introduced to the 9.3X62 I dumped my .375 and never looked back. IMHO, at the range at which DG is usually shot, the humble little 9.3X62 will do everything the .375 will do and it makes up into a much lighter, more portable package. CZ makes one for about $500 with built in bases. I have one (as well as a Blaser in that caliber) and it was perfect right out of the box and shoots like gangbusters with most any bullet and it just loves those 286 grain Woodleigh PPs. Brass is easy and cheap to get and costs much less than .375 brass and loading is a snap. You can easily get 2350-2400 with a 286 bullet using Ramshot Big Game, Varget or Reloder 15 and over 2500 fps with a 250 grain TSX. I have said this before but I honestly wish that Ruger would have chambered this cartridge (or perhaps the 9.3X64 Brenneke) in their Hawkeye rather than inventing the .375 Ruger. Anyway, food for thought....

You'll find a sample of the load data here:

http://www.realguns.com/loads/93x62mm.htm

Dave is right about the 9.3x62 and I find I also carry one of mine more often than a .375 but I disagree about the 9.3x64 as the .375 Ruger is:
your choice
#1 - a 9.3x64 on steroids
#2 - a modern and improved 9.3x64 with a much better selection of bullets.

Yea but Phil, if you have 9.3 Woodleighs (softs and solids), Swifts, Noslers, Barnes TSXs and banded solids, GSCs, and Hornadys from 250 to 320 grains, what more bullet selection do you need?