I'm thinking of buying Ruger Magnum II rifle in the .458 lott and have it rechambered into a .450 Dakota.
Can the bolt face be opened from .532 to .582 without weaking the bolt. And is their anyone that sells .450 Dakota reamer(SP) welcome pros and cons advise.

Thanks

Steve

Steve,
yes, it can be done, easy.
jeffe

...it would be much simpler to purchase the Ruger in .416Rigby, and "punch" the barrel to .45cal. Then all the components are in place. That's what I did several years ago (1999) The only difference was, I made mine a .450Rigby, and not a Dakota.
Good luck

Steve,

I have a CZ 550 magnum that has been rebarreled to a 450 dakota. It shoots fine and may be a cheaper option. Just a thought

I agree with the boring the barrel. It fits the barrel channel in the forearm much better.

Rich

Sounds like a project worthwhile!

Who does reboring work and how accutare is it once done. If I go with the 416 Rigby, what happens with the bolt face since the rigby is .590 compare to the Dakota .582.
Thankd for the advise Gentlemen

Steve

quote:

If I go with the 416 Rigby, what happens with the bolt face since the rigby is .590 compare to the Dakota .582.

Steve

That is not much of a differ, and does not matter. Why a .450 Dakota in stead of the .450 Rigby? Just curious!

Bent: I might be able to answer that one. I've been looking into building a custom 45 and I narrowed the calibers down to three, the Rigby, Dakota and Weatherby. I discarded the 460 right away even though it was the beter of the three in my opinion, but I'm a 'Weatherby purist" in that Weatherby calibers belong in Weatherby rifles.

So that left me the other two. The Rigby has the most "sex appeal" of the three, but the detractor (and it's a big one) is brass availability and cost. Brass for the Rigby costs twice as much as Weatherby or Dakota brass and it's quite scarce. Performance wise they are identical. That's my excuse anyway. jorge

460 G&A , have you thought about that one Jorge?

Yes I did, but again, a bit too much of a wildcat and I don't "do" those either. Having said that, hopefully the Dakota won't go tits up, but I've thought about that too and laid in a 250 plus supply of new brass. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
460 G&A , have you thought about that one Jorge?

Since the 460 G&A is based off of the 404 Jeffery case as is the 450 Dakota ( I belive) so I ask what would the performance difference be and why go with a wildcat when an eqall factory round is availble

quote:

So that left me the other two. The Rigby has the most "sex appeal" of the three, but the detractor (and it's a big one) is brass availability and cost. Brass for the Rigby costs twice as much as Weatherby or Dakota brass and it's quite scarce. Performance wise they are identical. That's my excuse anyway. jorge

Jorge, since you allready have a 416 Rigby, you allready have the brass for the 450 Rigby, If I am not mistaken........

Steve,

Al Siegrist does barrel reboring and a very good job of it too I might add.

jwp475,
The 450 Dakota is not based off of the 404 Jeffery case, but the 416 Rigby case (IIRC) if not the Rigby it is based off of a beltless 460 Weatherby case.

Jorge wants headstamped brass for Safari.

The 450 Dakota can also be loaded using .416 Rigby brass if headstamp doesn't matter.

The 450 Dakota is an older and more nostalgic, field-proven cartridge than the 450 Rigby which was only borned-on 1995.

I jumped at a Mauser Banner M98 Magnum in 450 Dakota.

Remember the Ruger RSM has only a recoil plate that detaches from the barreled action when you take it out of the stock.

There are no integral-built recoil lugs anywhere on the rifle, only the detachable recoil plate and the pinky-fingertip sized bolster on the action that it hooks over on the rear end of the plate, with the front end of the plate extending forward under the barrel to anchor in the forearm.

The .458 Lott is pushing the envelope for stock splitting in the RSM.

RIP,

The Ruger RSM can be fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
RIP,

The Ruger RSM can be fixed.

ScottS,
Ya, but I haven't bothered. What would you say is the best fix if one wanted to rebore one to .505 Gibbs, or better: 500 Mbogo.

Great Northern Guns in Anchorage got a batch of 5 or so RSM's that were redone into .505 Gibbs once upon a time. Rebores.

Wonder if they changed the bedding or solitary recoil plate lug on those?

LaBounty rebore and smithing by Hamlton Bowen, I do believe, but I don't think either are still offering it, moved on ...

I would install a Remington M700 style recoil plate (you know the one which gets sandwiched between the receiver and barrel) and dovetail a second lug into the bottom barrel rib (assuming you are reboring your barrel).

There are other ways, but they are not yet proven to me (but we are working on that). The above works, and even looks descent if done carefully/well.

Bowen was doing rebore (I belive through Cliff LaBounty) to 505 Gibbs once upon a time. It is my understanding that they left the bedding system stock (I could be mistaken though).

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
I would install a Remington M700 style recoil plate (you know the one which gets sandwiched between the receiver and barrel) and dovetail a second lug into the bottom barrel rib (assuming you are reboring your barrel).

You mean a Remington-style washer-lug. Don't say "plate" as that is confusing with the Ruger "plate" that lies flat along the forearm.

What you are saying is what I would do too, if I just had to rebore one to something bigger. Discard the "recoil plate" and add the washer lug where the barrel screws into the action, and add a secondary lug to the barrel.

We have discussed this many times before, here amongst us big bores.

Once you've been amongst us big bores, no gun is too big for some folks.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Steve,

Al Siegrist does barrel reboring and a very good job of it too I might add.

jwp475,
The 450 Dakota is not based off of the 404 Jeffery case, but the 416 Rigby case (IIRC) if not the Rigby it is based off of a beltless 460 Weatherby case.

My mistake..... since it is based off of the 416 Rigby then the performanc should eclipse the 460 G&A right?

Yup,

Mo bigger, mo faster, mo power.

I believe the 450 Dakota is a std length case, and the 450 Rigby is essentially a beltless 460 Weatherby, thought the 460 W is basically a belted 416 Rigby.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Yup,

Mo bigger, mo faster, mo power.

I believe the 450 Dakota is a std length case, and the 450 Rigby is essentially a beltless 460 Weatherby, thought the 460 W is basically a belted 416 Rigby.

Paul,
The 450 Dakota is a magnum length, like the .416 Rigby and 450 Rigby. Your brain farted.

Do you see any .505 Gibbs RSM's around Anchorage anymore?

Rip, I am considering converting a Ruger to 505 Gibbs, I missed the earlier disscusions on this subject. Why do you feel that the 505 conversion to be less desirable when compared to the 500 Mbogo?

Thanks

SL,
I have a bias, but I would choose the 450 Dakota. It is a shooter and lots of brass exists even if Dakota goes belly-up.

It is accurate and loaded to 2400 fps with A-frames makes a helluva buff rifle for short or 75 yd shots. 450 Rigby has name, but the brass may be harder to find.

Dak

Ron,

I wasn't sure if the 450 Dakota was fl on shortened like the rest of the Dakota line. I was never interested enough in the round to look up the dimensions, so I plead ignorance.

As far as I know the last 505 sold many years ago. Was it still on the shelf when we went over there?

There is a guy in Kenai that used to post here that had one of them.

It would have been a nice gun to pick up, as it was well done and reasonably priced for what it was. But, I was then as now, cash poor and dream rich

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Rip, I am considering converting a Ruger to 505 Gibbs, I missed the earlier disscusions on this subject. Why do you feel that the 505 conversion to be less desirable when compared to the 500 Mbogo?

Thanks

jwp475,
The .505 Gibbs rim is so huge it skeletonizes the RSM bolt face. A 500 Mbogo rim is the same as the .416 Rigby.

You would only get 2 down in the Ruger box with the .505 Gibbs. You can get 3 down in the Ruger box with the 500 Mbogo.

And the 500 Mbogo is capable of 600 grainers at 2500 fps, or 570 grainers at 2450 fps, to be easier on your shoulder. Beats the traditional .505 Gibbs or traditional 500 Jeffery loads.

Proper headstamp on Jamison Brass is next to be accomplished.

Paul,
IIRC, that last .505 Gibbs RSM was on the shelf when we were there.

I think Great Northern Guns had 5 of them made up by Bowen. Eventually sold them all, eh?

I recall the 600 NE Heym bolt action was in the rack then too.

jorge

Simple! I would go for the 450 Rigby Rimless and shoot 550-600 grain bullets around 2200fps. It got much more class and style than any of alternatives. Ream the belt of those wby cases or neck up 416 Rigby brass- guess your current stock of 416 Rigby brass will require constant replenishments

416 Rigby and 450 Rigby rimless as a matching pair is great idea. If case head stamp is a dilemma, why not stamp the rifle 450/416 Rigby Rimless? Factory ammo is loaded by Kynoch and Wolfgang Romey loaded for Rigby, when the company was still in England. Hopefully Norma will offer 450 Rigby rimless in their PH line.

460G&A is based on a 404 case and would be a nice choice but is a wildcat- a mauser or CZ would hold 1 or 2 more rounds in the magazine, if that is of importance.

Cheers
/JOHAN

RIP, thanks for the info. Very good points

Wow, you guys impress me with so much know-how. Sorry, but the die is cast and a 450 Dakota it is. jorge

Good choice....

There is a slight body taper difference between the .416 and .450 Rigby cases. If you run .416 cases in the .450 die you will experience stiff bolt closing. It can be done, though, and after firing, no more problems. I anneal every loading and get very good case life.
Mark Stone

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Rip, I am considering converting a Ruger to 505 Gibbs, I missed the earlier disscusions on this subject. Why do you feel that the 505 conversion to be less desirable when compared to the 500 Mbogo?

Thanks

BOLT THRUST. The RSM with the Rigby head has MUCH LESS bolt thrust than a .505 Gibbs size and thus can be loaded hotter without the action and bolt "groaning" so much.

Good point woodsracer. A .505 Gibbs at 55K psi would be dangerous to the rifle action from bolt thrust.

With the Rigby case head size, the rifle would be OK to well over 70K psi, if only the brass could handle it.

A .505 Gibbs at 55K psi or a 500 Mbogo at 70K psi would be about equally stupid, all things considered.

One of my favorite pics of a Ruger Magnum re-bore job...



Stock is still holding up.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,
that 470 Mbogo-RSM mark 1, no? EXCELLENT rifle

jeffe

jeffe,

To be honest, I wondered that myself at first. I never really followed the history of the Rugers until I owned one. When I registered the rifle I had to look on the Ruger website to sort out exactly what model it is, as it just says Sturm Ruger Co on the barrel and "Magnum" on the reciever.

According to the website, it is a Mod 77 Mark II Magnum, built in 1992.

Its kinda funny though, because its serial number matches those listed for the Mod 77 Mark II rifles (which were first produced in 1989), but does not match the serial numbers specific to the Mark II Magnums, which they show as starting in 1992. There must have been a transition with serial numbers that year.

Cheers,
Canuck

Gentleman

Where can one find a chamber remear for the .450 Dakota if I decide to go that route.

Thanks

Steve

Steve,
I know for a fact that Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool&Guage is the guy that Dakota turns to most often for reamers. He is most likely to have one in stock with headspace guages ready to go. He does good work. So does Dave Manson.

My rifle came already reamed to 450 Dakota.

Canuck,
Your rifle is the "First Generation" RSM with heavy 24" long barrel (.820" at the muzzle) and with the front sling base coming through the forearm on a barrel band inletted into the forearm.

The "Second Generation" RSM was a few years after that, with front sling base on a barrel band out beyond the forend, same barrel.

The "Third Generation" RSM came a few years later still, with 23" barrel length and 0.750" muzzle diameter.

Does your "First Generation" RSM have the same recoil plate bedding sysyem as all the others?