I thought it would be interesting to compare the .375 NE 2-1/2" to other .375 cartridges:

.38-55, .375 NE 2-1/2", .375 H&H Magnum

Like the 400/375 H&H NE?
H&H's first belted cart.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Like the 400/375 H&H NE?
H&H's first belted cart.

The 400/375 didn't last very long. H&H brought it out around 1905 for use in Mannlicher actioned rifles. I read that for a while Rigby had an exclusive licensing arrangement with Mauser leaving the other British gun makers with few options. If you look at the old 1910 H&H catalog you can see the sort of rifles they made in 400/375. The 375H&H Magnum came out about seven years later and the 400/375 was doomed.

I would have added a 400/375 H&H to the picture if I had one to photograph.

Don't forget the 375 win. and of course the 375 flanged mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:


...I read that for a while Rigby had an exclusive licensing arrangement with Mauser leaving the other British gun makers with few options....

I read that Rigby took kindly to some of the other esteemed British manufactures{Westley Richards, Jeffery] and supplied them with magnum Mauser actions.


The 350Rigby(1899) pre-dates the belted H&H stuff and IMO is a superior-concept design.

400-.375ne


350Rigby

The nearly 2x neck length to diameter makes the 400/375 stick out not to mention the belt.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The nearly 2x neck length to diameter makes the 400/375 stick out not to mention the belt.

I suspect that was needed to get it to work in the Mannlicher magazine.

The 375x2.5 Express is a cordite round that takes 40 grs of Cordite to move a 270 or 320 gr. bullet at 1900 to 2000 FPS, a better round than the 38-55 by a good deal but not IMO a decent DG caliber. It would surfice as a short range bushveld caliber for plainsgame. With 46 grs. of Mulwex 2208 you can propell a 270 gr. bullet at a respectable 2100 FPS in a 26 inch barrel.

The only double rifle caliber in .375 caliber that is even close to a 375 H&H is the 375 flanged.

It would make a dandy hog rifle or Whitetail rifle in the thick stuff.

I had a .375 2 1/2" in a Cogswell & Harrison double. I made the mistake of selling it. Alas!

It was super accurate with 270 grain Speer bullets and I killed zebra, black and blue wildebeest, impala, hartebeest and a warthog with it. Frank Beller now has it and he promises to leave it to me in his will. If he doesn't keep his promise when he croaks, I'll quite happily marry Joyce to get the thing back

I believe it chronographed about 2050 out of 24" barrels. The cup and core bullets, at that velocity, performed perfectly.

Here's a work of art. It's an H&H .375 2 1/2" on a Mannlicher action. It is proofed for a bit more "umph" than the normal .375 2 1/2".... I think it is a 320 grain bullet at 2150 or so, but functioned quite well with the 270 grain ammo I had loaded for my Coggie.

The case is original with old Pan Am flying boat stickers on it!

Would I shoot a buffalo with it... a broadside lung shot, smoke a cigar to let the dust settle and the old boy die... you bet you bippy I would!

VERY cool stuff!
Thanks for sharing

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a buffalo with it and with a North Fork cup point or flat nose solid...I suspect I would get close and carefully stick that bullet in the right spot..but only if the Judge would give me that fine rifles as a reward for my bravery!!

There is the newly tested 375 230 grain CEB Raptor in the terminal bullet performance thread that would be good in these smaller cartridges as well as the biggest.
Get that Raptor up to 2,100 and I would hunt about anything.

JudgeG,
Does that Mannlicher use the Enbloc clip or does it have a regular mag?

Lovely rifle, I'm sure she barks with athority.

Cheers, John

Judgeg- Look familiar?




I have been playing with this since 1979. The 235 Speers have been worked up to 2400 FPS. Nowhere near the power level of the H&H, I think it would work well on any thin skinned animal. C&H advised me in correspondence that buyers of guns in this caliber were often headed for big cat hunting. A lot of 375 NEs were shipped to India for tiger hunting.

What about the 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauerin the 1910 MS rifle. (also called the 375 MS NE) I have one which I have posted pictures of and am currently doing a very slow restocking project.

It virtually duplicated the 375 / 2.5 inch.

If I rember correctly I get 270 gr bullets to do around 2050 fps with AR 2208 / Varget.

I am glad to hear that it would be ok for buffalo (not ideal). But a full load 9.3X62 in a Mauser action would be better.

I love the 375s and 9.3s and I'm sure the 9x57 and most of these calibers will kill buffalo with a good first shot..However, as much as I like my 9.3x62 and my 375, they are not IMO "stopping rifles" unless you can take a head shot, which I would do with one of these..

Stopping rifles begin at the 10.75x68 and go up from there, the bigger the better to stop a charge with a body shot.

quote:

Stopping rifles begin at the 10.75x68 and go up from there, the bigger the better to stop a charge with a body shot.

Would you say the same for the 400 Whelen?

quote:

Originally posted by SaxonPig:
I have been playing with this since 1979. The 235 Speers have been worked up to 2400 FPS.

Do you have any load data for the 235gr?

Being young and foolish, alright, I'm one of those...
I found myself fasinated with the 400/375 belted cartridge. I had a reamer made, and built a mauser on the lines of a British stalking rifle. I love the thing! i had a belting die and made up a pile of brass from 280 Rem, made a few by necking up 240 wthby ( no problems doing it) but they are a bit short. and have several boxes of Quality cartridge brass. So far one moose and one whitetail to it's credit, but more to follow as I enjoy the rifle so much. 230 grn speers at 2550 fps worked on both critters. I could push the speed a little, but see no need to.

The old 1910 Holland & Holland catalog shows the 375 NE 2-1/2" with three bullets they used. One, the Velopex, was some sort of specialty bullet. In the discussion of the cartridge they mention a velocity of 2500fps.

quote:

This rifle can be regulated to shoot our new " Velopex " cartridge, which gives greatly increased velocity, 2,500 feet per second, and very flat trajectory, combined with great striking energy, making this an ideal weapon for deer stalking.

I wonder what the weight of this Velopex bullet was.

That Velopex bullet had a wood-filled nose covered with a metal cap that fitted over the jacketed bullet body with lead core.
A bit complex, eh?
That made it very CG-rearward, so it was a bullet that tumbled on impact.
Brits used that in WWI in the .303 for devastating antipersonnel "dumdum" wounding.

I have not found the weight of the Velopex bullet
for .400/.375 Belted Nitro Express
aka .400/.375 H&H
aka .400/.375 Express
aka .400/.375 Velopex.
If the velocity was around 2500 fps, it must have been a light one, probably around 230 grains or less, eh?

Standard load was 43 grains of cordite and a 270-grain bullet, velocity 2175 fps.
There was a 320-grain load also with 43 grains of cordite estimated at 2000 fps.

Henry W. Holland wrote the application for patent on the belted case on Dec. 19, 1904, accepted January 26, 1905.

However, remember the Roper Revolving Rifles and Shotguns of 1866 patent, from Hartford, Connecticut, USA?
The .41 Roper rifle cartridge had a one-piece steel case with a belt, and a screwed-in percussion nipple to accept percussion caps as primers.
Subsequently it had regular recess in base for standard priming.
It was such a stout case, it was more like an accessory chamber, and the revolving rifle held 6 of these reloadable cases in its cylinder.

.41 Roper, the first belted cartridge case, 1866 USA, made of steel:



NRA National Firearms Museum specimen of a Roper revolving shotgun, 4-shooter, rifle was 6-shooter, similarly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66CS7ffaeuM

Great stuff, RIP.

I had never heard of the Roper cartridges before and the explanation of the Velopex bullet was informative.

The old H&H catalog gives the same velocity of the Velopex bullet in both the 375 NE 2-1/2" and the 375 H&H belted (400/.375 H&H). Hornady offers a 225gr .375 bullet of Interlock design. I'll see if I can find some load data for that bullet and these cartridges.