quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Mike 378,

For what its worth all M-70s are magnum length actions (there is one recent exception but its a smaller caliber action) and all you have to do is knock out the filler in the magazine or replace it...so converting to a Lott is simple as ABC, done it many times...

Ray,
pre'64 winchesters were all the same length, this hasn't been the case for awhile winchester makes a long and short action.. I think this started with the reintroduction of the "classic" action, but it may have been before that.

converting a win 458 to a lott is about $400 of gunsmithing.. or 1600 more if you buy a custom shop win.

jeffe

The .458 450 gr. Barnes TSX does an excellent job on big Coastal Browns. Lawdog

This weekend I chrono's my .458 loads. The average for five rounds was 2046fps with a spread of 5fps. Pretty consistant. The load was 71gr of IMR 3031 under a 500gr Hornady. Rifle is a '96(I think-controlled feed, pre South Carolina) Winchester. No where near max load. This gives 4650 ft-lbs of energy. How does this compare with the original loadings for .470NE or .450NE? Thanks, Bob

RIP, I was glad to see your reference to Ron Thomson, after reading his book, it would be hard to believe that the stock .458 is inadequate. Much can be said for his obvious ability as a marksman, ie; perfect shot placement making up for less than adequate velocity. What really gets your attention though, is his praise for the old yellow box WINCHESTER factory ammo with 500 grain solids! How could they possibly have worked so well without all of the advancments in technology we have today? As a Lott owner, I believe it has a lot to offer over the stock .458WM, but I also believe the Win has all the power necessary for the job.

Jeffe,
I so stated there was an exception and I will further state the new actions are a tad longer than the pre 64 but not enough to make any difference...I have never paid $400 for a 458 Win to a 458 Lott conversion..more like $150 from Jack Belk or Jim, but have not done that in some time now.

From http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=157&BulletWeight=500 for the .458 win loaded with 500gr slugs:

quote:

10034 Barnes X IMR 4895 0 fps [?? incomplete record??]
517 Hornady IMR 3031 2105 fps
10394 Hornady FMJ IMR 3031 2130 fps
5413 Hornady JRN Hodgdon Varget 2152 fps
5414 Hornady JRN Hodgdon H335 2163 fps
5415 Hornady JRN Hodgdon H4895 2161 fps
5416 Hornady JRN Hodgdon Benchmark 2123 fps
5417 Hornady JRN Hodgdon H322 2109 fps
5418 Hornady JRN Hodgdon H4198 1987 fps
5423 Hornady RN RWS R902 2099 fps
5424 Hornady RN RWS R902 1968 fps
5425 Hornady RN RWS R907 2165 fps
5426 Hornady RN RWS R907 2066 fps
4660 Hornady RN Vihtavuori N135 1930 fps
4661 Hornady RN Vihtavuori N135 2060 fps
10035 Hornady RN IMR 4895 0 fps
4664 Hornady RN Vihtavuori N140 1983 fps
9351 Hornady SPRN IMR 4320 2155 fps
4662 Speer AGS Vihtavuori N135 1920 fps
4663 Speer AGS Vihtavuori N135 2053 fps
6775 Winchester FMJ Winchester 748 2040 fps
9434 Woodleigh Alliant Reloader 15 2142 fps

For the Lott: http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=158&BulletWeight=500

quote:

8370 Barnes Solid Alliant Reloader 15 2263 fps
9471 Barnes Solid Hodgdon H335 2216 fps
9474 Barnes TSX Hodgdon H335 2200 fps
9685 Barnes TSX Hodgdon Varget 2200 fps
10601 Barnes TSX IMR 4064 2300 fps
8369 Hornady Alliant Reloader 15 2226 fps
9350 Hornady Hodgdon Varget 2232 fps
8374 Hornady FMJ IMR 4320 2150 fps
9108 Hornady SP Hodgdon Varget 2169 fps
9312 Hornady SP Alliant Reloader 7 2246 fps
9476 Hornady SP Winchester 748 2290 fps
10467 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Hodgdon Varget 2200 fps

Winchester and Ruger are both chambering for the Lott; the only commercial loads are still from Hornady and A-square, though I've read rumors on this site that Federal might be considering it.

I have a strong suspicion, having read about the nature of the early failures of the .458 win, that much depended on caking powder and poor projectile construction. Best advantage comes from your own handloads where you take care on what you load. I'm not sure that you'll get consistent answers here -- just lots of strong feelings... though I'd trust Ganyana's comments that Barnes X's have done well, though Barnes X's are made of lighter metal and tend to be long for shorter cases (.458 lott works well here). Some of the Speer tungstun solids should be hard and heavy, and should load well in either cartridge (I'd defer to those who may speak with the authority of experience).

I have a .458 win in a Ruger #1 that I think is a very pleasant gun (accurate, easy to shoot). I have a M77 Lott on the way. I suspect I will still enjoy the 458 win more... but it was more fun to set up loads for, tweak with sighting the thing in for my weird loads, etc. I think I will keep the Lott with open sights and shoot relatively standard loads through it.

Dan

We can all quote losding data until the cows come home, but the only thing I trust in my loading is my chronographs...

As far as I am concerned the ONLY powder for the Lott is IMR-4320 and I can get an honest 2350 FPS in a 22" barrel on most rifles..and I have run that up to near 460 Wby velocities in some 26" guns but the loads were too hot IMO..so I always run my Lotts at 2350 FPS with a 500 gr. bullet or I load them to a mild 2200 FPS at very low pressure and recoil that is not so horrendous.....

I consider the Lott a great caliber when ran at 2100 to 2200 FPS, thats all the velocity I need to kill anything on this planet...and it does all that without the bugger that haunts the std. 458...

Ray,

Exactly as you've said before. What struck me about that reloading site is that it posts results from people who (were supposed to have) tried loads and chronographed them. Some of the numbers look like the numbers in the Speer or Lyman reloading manuals, though. Apart from Hornady's numbers, it looked like a good "reality check" for what folks might expect from a Lott in comparison to the .458 win. Curious thing -- the .458 win seems to like IMR-4320, too.

One thing that has been tickling around in my head though -- reduced loads can produce odd pressure effects, as well. I doubt downloading the .458 Lott to the 2100-2200fps numbers count as "downloading," and actually look typical of what other folks' reloading experience seems to suggest. On the other hand, SR-4759 has been very friendly to people looking for .45-70 performance out of their .458 wins -- I suspect that could be used in a Lott as well -- now that's downloading. I've seen IMR-3031 listed as a good powder for intermediate energy ranges with light projectiles -- no dangerous game. Haven't tried it in my .458 win. I have tried the SR-4759 -- it works very nicely for this purpose.

If you're not looking at solids, but rather at softer bullets (Lion Loads, etc), higher velocities than the bullet is rated for might not give the hoped-for performance; lighter loads won't get a harder bullet to open up. For solids, it doesn't matter -- but you want to drive a solid through the kind of stuff the solid is supposed to drive through: more energy is good.

After hunting season -- if our range isn't full of ice -- I'll try to get out and chronograph my various loads I've been playing with... commercial and otherwise.

Dan