Thought I would share this over here.

Hope you enjoy the pic and read.

A brief description... If you neck up the 375 H&H to 404 (423) you have just eliminated the shoulder to have a belted tapered case no shoulder (same taper as the 375) to have a low cost alternative to duplicate the performance of the 404 Jeffery. Similar to the Capstick and the Lott.

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../6521043/m/660101779

. Why not a little shoulder ??????????

There are a handful of reasons and all of this is in the thread but the idea was to neck up the 375 H&H case to get rid of the shoulder and the 404 neck and the 375 shoulder just happen to match and not have one to mess with it.

I dont like mixing belts and shoulders but that is a small issue.

Another thing was to have a great feeding cart that you would not have to mess with on a 375 H&H conversion with a rebore to duplicate the 404 jeffery ballistics and the shoulder is not needed for that.

After having read all the info on the idea and creation of the 404-375, I had an epiphany. I now know what I'll do with that P-14 action I have lying around. I had her NDTed to check for cracks and none were found. I have always been fascinated with the 404J and this is a cool solution. Have ya'll got final dimensions for the chamber reamer yet?

Glad to hear!

That is the beauty... 375 reamer and 404 neck/throater.

Glad to see we've made it over to this forum Boomy

Drew - Like boom said, get a 423 barrel, have a 375 H&H chamber cut but with a parallel .423 neck. On the 3rd page Con goes into a bit more detail on how he is going to have his done.

Same with dies, have the neck opened up, no other changes. Con is going to check to see if it can be neck sized and/or seated with a 44/40 die. Both dies are readily available and usually fairly cheap if you look on auction sites or in our classified section.

Doing this in a P14 is a match made in heaven! I believe I'm doing mine with a 1917. If you have a few minutes, go back to the wildcat forum and look for "the poor mans 404" this is where this cat started. The idea is to do things as quickly and inexpensively as possible. Now the common man can kill 2 birds with 1 stone, 1- have an easy to make/load wildcat 2- achieve original 404 J numbers without spending 2-5000$ on building/buying a 404 J
Woodleigh 450@2150 is the ultimate make us happy goal.

This is a really neat idea, I'm not into wildcats at all, but this really strikes me as smart and useful.

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks JPenn! That was exactly the point Well, and as an affordable alternative to a 404 Jeff.

Thanks! It is the potential for simplicity, functionality, ease of conversion, cost, shootability and duplication of the great 404 combined that make this so interesting.

Boom

I just posted this PIC in the wildcat section for Con so I thought I'd add it here as well

All are .423 creations



regards
S&F

Thanks Short and Fat!
All should Gitr' done but you know my favorite... Here is a hint... It has no shoulder !!!
Next to compare capacities with the same brass run...
Thanks again

boomie,

I believe that this is the .424 OKH invented in the 1940s by O'Neal, Keith, and Hopkins.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
boomie,

I believe that this is the .424 OKH invented in the 1940s by O'Neal, Keith, and Hopkins.

George

The 424 OKH was improved case with a shoulder like the 423 8mm rem mag in the pic. I did some checking around on that.

Thanks to RIP for finding and posting this pic

Here we see the short and long OKH and the shoulders.

I couldn't remember if the .424 OKH had a shoulder or not.

I wonder what the velocities with today's powders would be.

George

What develops power this cartridge?, I'm just curious. In Spain I doubt that weapons are traded for it. I decided to buy a 458 Lott God willing.

Oscar.

Ovny...The Lott is an outstanding practical comercial cart but it does not need my praise... The 404-375 would be a cart for those who want a practical easy conversion cheap 404 alternative to either jump from the 300 grain 375 catagory of bullets to shoot the 400 grain bullets and not the 500 grain like the lott to duplicate the 404 Jeffery without a shoulder to keep the great 375 feeding traits on a 375 conversion. If you did not have a Lott I would highly suggest it and so would many here.

George... Yes, I assume back in the day they probably needed the shoulder to get enough powder room on the older powders. I suspect the 416 Rem Mag and the 425 OKH will be ballistic twins today. If the 416 Taylor is being pushed to 400 @ 2350 shoulder or no shoulder there is enough room since the 404-375 should be right about 100 grains capacity.

In a line up of the same case with just taper but no shoulder on one end is your Capstick then the Lott then the soon to be 404-375 then the 40 BSA (The BSA is an obscure diameter and cart that original ammo cases go for $2,000!!!) This cat has some things going for it I think.

George,

I'm sure we could get this thing cooking along nicely with todays pressures and powders...but the whole goal was to achieve original 404J ballistics with low pressures for easy feeding/extraction and it should be no worries getting there. 450's @ 2150 is everyones "smile" mark lol.

Its not often that I find a wildcat that I say, this SHOULD'VE been a factory offering a long time ago, but I think this is just that case.

Ovny - this would not have been a good choice for you and your situation. Its a wildcat, which means everything is custom made. You have made a very good choice in the 458 Lott, you have no reasons to think otherwise

Hello, thank you both for your answers. I have chosen the 458 Lott for to find ammunition in Spain. The 404-375 I do not know until I saw this thread in the forum. Friend of the time I do not have 458 Lott, I´m savinge uros for it. The crisis in Spain punishes hard workers. Millionaires barely noticeable and I am a worker.

Greetings,

Oscar.

PS: The day I buy Ceska in 458 Lott promise photographs.

Update
Any interest in 404-375 dies and reamers here?
458 win mag, 458 Lott, 404-375, 375HH, 375 WBY

Boomy

It looks great! Congrats buddy! I say yet another great use for 375 brass! Far more useful than the original parent! I have a bunch of 375 brass, used to make 358 STA, 458 Lott and 470 Capstick out of it. Useful for those things, and certainly the 404! Excellent. Damn, I may when I get tired and bored of everything else make myself a 404 B&M, or maybe a 425 B&M or some such?

Good show my man, good show!

Michael

Thanks Michael
Seems there will be a few made and it is awful cute ain't it.
A 404 B&M would be a great short action 404 Jeffery duplicator.

Boomy

Yes it would I think, 425B&M, just to be different! I think I will put it on the books for 2011! I need to hold something back. Working on too many things now!

Good Job
Michael

Aww man Michael! You had to go and think about doing a 404 lol. I already want a 10.75x68 and of course the 404-375 which I had a tiny bit of insight on. There is already the 425 Express though, the 404 J, 10.75x68/57, and 424 OKH....if you wanna be original maybe the 420/21/22/23?

Hey Boomie,

Looks like the 404-375 is the same case length as the 458 Lott, was the case length cut back?

Looks nice though and a true reason for the belt.

Milehigh

Nahhhh, man, I doubt it. Already had this in mind several times for B&M but always dismiss and logic, reason, and justification takes over, for me, in my series the B&M, what's the .423 do that .416 does not? That's always what it gets down to!

But in this case, the 404-375, it is a perfect and easy solution for a useless 375 chambered Winchester M70, easy brass, easy convert! Perfect! Also one can take those useless Win M70 in 7mm and such, easy convert to real cartridge and caliber!

I see the 404-375 as being a great success!

M

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Hey Boomie,

Looks like the 404-375 is the same case length as the 458 Lott, was the case length cut back?

Looks nice though and a true reason for the belt.

Hi Capoward. Oscar trimmed the case to 2.80"
I am a little conflicted as to what the best brass length will be.
The 404 Jeffery case is 2.86" long
The Lott 2.8"
The 375 HH 2.85"
Questions as to what length is best or if any OAL issues.
Is there a problem going to 2.85" like the 375 HH?
Are most 404 bullets shorter tip to canalure?
Forming brass from Lott brass will be easy but shorter What is the length of untrimmed Lott brass?
Since most of these made will be rebores of the 375 will there be an oal issues if 2.85"
Will feeding be better because of the non spitzer bullets with a 2.80" case?
With a 2.85" chamber both lengths will work.

Thanks for the input.

quote:

But in this case, the 404-375, it is a perfect and easy solution for a useless 375 chambered Winchester M70, easy brass, easy convert! Perfect! Also one can take those useless Win M70 in 7mm and such, easy convert to real cartridge and caliber!

I see the 404-375 as being a great success!

M

Thanks for the high praise of the idea.

I think this does have some merits and it is hard to find a wildcat that has some merits and look like it should have been done 100 years ago.

I still think we go 2.80" the brass is gonna shrink a bit when necked up from 375 to 423...if it was the same length as the 375, wouldn't brass end up finishing short? If you neck down Lott however.....the brass is going to stretch, then we would have to trim...or it might come out to the 2.85" which is fine....but 375 brass is cheaper.