The Accurate Reloading Forums
Help me decide
28 December 2009, 01:32
ScottSHelp me decide
An opportunity has presented itself and I would appreciate a little guidance.Which should I build on a CZ550 Magnum currently in 458 Win mag?450 Dakota450 Rigby rimless magnum460 Weatherby magnum465 H&H rimless magnum
28 December 2009, 04:43
IndyNone of the above. Just leave it alone. You can shoot 500 grain bullets at 2200 fps through 1500 pound buffalo and 12,000 pound elephant and save yourself the trouble of expending more energy on the ground beyond.
Indy
Life is short. Hunt hard.
28 December 2009, 04:50
ScottSIndy,
Wise words, but it seems a total waste to me to use a 3.95" magazine box rifle (true Magnum Mauser length) for a cartridge as short as the 458 WM. Besides that the 458 WM doesn't feed well from such a huge box.
28 December 2009, 05:01
RobgunbuilderNone of the above. You should not have access to weapons.-Rob
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
28 December 2009, 05:13
Idaho SharpshooterRob, Rob, Rob...
It's Christmas, give the little guy some hope for 2010.
Rich
Me, I have a 450 Dakota that shot, at low pressure, 500gr Swift A-frames and the old style Barnes single driving band solids over 2470fps.
Absolutely pulverized a big Cape Buffalo bull.
28 December 2009, 06:12
jeffeossogo for the 465, Scott .. be the first one on AR to do one ...
28 December 2009, 06:24
IanDquote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
None of the above. You should not have access to weapons.-Rob
LOL, now that was funny!
My vote goes to the .460 Weatherby. Since I have a BRNO 602 that is going to become one soon
28 December 2009, 08:02
.458 Onlyquote:
Originally posted by ScottS:
Indy,
Wise words, but it seems a total waste to me to use a 3.95" magazine box rifle (true Magnum Mauser length) for a cartridge as short as the 458 WM. Besides that the 458 WM doesn't feed well from such a huge box.
That's strange, I have the same rifle and no feeding problems! Then, you could always seat them long if wanted.
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)
28 December 2009, 08:10
GarByWhy not just make it a Lott?
Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC
28 December 2009, 09:22
Timan450 Rigby or 450 Dakota without question.
good luck
Timan
28 December 2009, 15:46
greenjoyNone of your choices would I pick.
You have a long action use it!
I would opt for 458Lott it seems very popular on this forum, a lott
of advice could be gathered here it you ran into problems.
My second choice would be to go bigger to 470 Capstick, but of course that would require more money to spent as the hole in the barrel would need to be made a little larger.
28 December 2009, 16:49
SMACK!!!!"Conclusion: the .450 Rigby Magnum wins hands down. Somebody should tell that to the company whose name is on the headstamp." ROBERT BOATMAN.
--------------------------------------------
Nothing like a trail of blood to find your way back home.
28 December 2009, 21:43
Mike_DettorreI think, i would leave it as is...getting the feeding probably corrected and use the extra money to go hunting...
If you have to do something...open it up to the Lott.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
28 December 2009, 21:55
INVNWithout question 450 Rigby. That will probably be my next "rifle" for fun or for cape buffalos
28 December 2009, 22:00
ledvm+1 for leaving it a .458 WM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
28 December 2009, 22:33
MARK H. YOUNGScott
Leave it as a 458WM. It will do anything you need a 45 caliber cartridge to do. If you have to fiddle with it make it a Lott. Why spend a bunch of money to just have something different and more expensive to shoot. Think trophy fee!!!!
Mark
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https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 28 December 2009, 22:38
eezridrOf all the calibers on your initial post. I suspect you might only find the 460 Wea available if you ammo was lost in transit to Africa.
Who wants to resort to a "camp gun" if no ammo available.
+1 for Marks comments!
EZ
28 December 2009, 23:11
GrandpasezLong box, big action- step out a little-585HE. Ed
MZEE WA SIKU
28 December 2009, 23:51
DRSRechamber or rebarrel in .460 Weatherby. However you'll have to have the boltface open slightly. Ammo for the .460 would be a great deal easier to find than wildcat loads.
David
29 December 2009, 04:14
ScottSEd,
How/where do I get 585HE brass? I do find that an interesting alternative, which would realistically cost little to nothing more than making the 465 H&H. I assume the 585HE uses the 505 Gibbs rim dimensions?
29 December 2009, 04:41
boom stickWhat is the Magazine length?
550 Express? 550 magnum?
29 December 2009, 05:28
MHC_TX450 Rigby.....get's my vote. I'm in the process of having one built. It is a awesome looking round (not that that matters) with it's 500 grain bullets. The 450 Rigby will also let you take advantage of even heavier bullets or the long Barnes X bullets with it's larger case capacity (vs a Lott or standard 458mag). Jaminson makes 450 Rigby brass and you can neck up 416 Rigby brass. You can also buy 450 Rigby ammunition from Superior. Reloading dies are available from Redding.
My 2nd choice would be the 458 Lott.
Also, there are lots of .458 bullets to choose from, including cast lead bullets.....lots of options here.......to load it up to it's full potential or make it a plinker.
29 December 2009, 06:04
fourborequote:
How/where do I get 585HE brass? I do find that an interesting alternative, which would realistically cost little to nothing more than making the 465 H&H. I assume the 585HE uses the 505 Gibbs rim dimensions?
Yes on the 505 rim, but brass is the limitation.I am pretty sure, Ed is custom making the brass. Meanwhile working to get a 5-10,000 piece order. Hopefully, someday it will be available same as the OK brass. I just saw a used CZ550 in 416Rigby today and almost pulled the trigger (buy that is). Thinking future 585. Problem was it has some weird fibre optic 3-9x Trijicon(sp) expensive(!) scope - package deal take it or leave it. So; I left it.
29 December 2009, 06:35
AzGuyShoot it as a 458 Win and see how it does both in accuracy and velocity.....
May be no "need" to change, but...then I do understand "want"...
DRSS &
Bolt Action Trash
29 December 2009, 07:33
RobgunbuilderScott- you should not be allowed to drive a car or own a weapon in the US or any other foreign country. Certified Wackos have no rights.-Rob
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
29 December 2009, 07:41
BigFiveJackLOTT, just because it's a long
action. If it was an action that
was .458 Win Mag length appropriate
I'd say LEAVE IT.
If you MUST do something else,
460 Weatherby. There's the chance
you could get ammo in Africa
those with experience say.
Jack
OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.}
29 December 2009, 13:29
GrandpasezI have enough brass to get a few guys started, and free use
of 585HE reamer, and dies on hand. You get gun with
barrel on it, boltface right size, and we run reamer
in and testfire a 750gr at 26-2700 to see the
potential and experience hairy power..Ed
MZEE WA SIKU
29 December 2009, 20:56
ScottSEd,
750gr at 2600 to 2700 fps is TOO hairy a power for wimpy me. I would be happy with 2200 to 2300 fps. The rifle would be built at around 12 pounds. Still not sure if I want that much power, as I have two 500's and they are about all I wish to carry all day long from a weight perspective. Do you have a 12 lb 585HE I could test fire sometime?
The 450 Rigby is not an ammo issue for me. I can definitely get ammo for it from three separate sources in southern Africa (albeit their loads will not be the same as mine) if the unthinkable were to happen (ammo lost in transit).
The 450 Dakota seems, presently, to have the lowest cost brass, while the 460 WM is the most expensive. The rifle in it's current state shoots well so I am not concerned about accuracy, even after a rechamber job.
29 December 2009, 21:59
ledvmIf I was going to have a bolt gun bigger than a .458 WM...I would build a .505 Gibbs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
29 December 2009, 22:38
GrandpasezI got a bunch 585HEs set up that you can fire
and of course it can be loaded down to
2200 if you want.Regular hunting speeds
with this cartridge 2400.Ed
MZEE WA SIKU
30 December 2009, 00:06
RobgunbuilderEd- You do know that Scotts is the biggest TROLL on this site dont you? If his lips are moving he's lying! His name isn't ASSCLOWN for nothing!-Rob
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!