Ladies and Gentleman,

I have been a long time lurker and have learned a lot from these forums. I am about to get a new rifle and am hoping for some guidance from the experienced guys here. I like the idea of having only one rifle for everything and I like the bigger guns. This will be used for everything from deer on up in North America/Canada and eventually in Africa. I also want something Buffalo capable. I realize this is a compromise. Most of those I hunt with are weatherby fans but I want something a bit different. I am not particularly recoil sensitive. Please consider this from the perspective of both a non reloader and a reloader but I understand to get maximum use out of these, I must reload. I also fully understand that these are all overkill in North America but that is ok. My next scheduled hunt is Pigs in Texas in April (not counting deer later this season). Also I am comfortable limiting my range to 300 yards max (and usually 200 or less) so ultra flat shooting is not a priority.

My choices are 9.3x62, 375 H&H, 458 Lott or 416 Taylor. My impressions of these from my research are as follows: Probably the least versatile is the 416 Taylor but it is efficient for its power, is unique and obviously is the most obscure choice. This will also be the most expensive choice probably as well. Reloading is probably a requirement for any utility. The 375 obviously is great all arounder and has been for a century. It has history, tradition and with the right loads is pretty similar to a 30-06 with 180 grain loads, which is about all we really need here in North America (debatable I know). The 9.3 has been described as perfectly adequate for almost anything, can do anything the 375 can, but in a bit lighter, less recoiling rife than the 375 generally speaking. Neither the 9.3 or 375 would be an African stopping rifle, but most would feel comfortable facing an angry grizzly with either. It may have less bullet choices and I am not sure of the cost of feeding compared to the 375 but you definitely have less choices, especially here in NA. Finally the 458 Lott. Some have said if you had to pick one rifle for the world and reload, it is a good choice. Obviously, a stopper and obviously more than I need in North America hunting deer, pigs or anything else. But would probably be comforting carrying it and running in to that same grizzly we mentioned earlier. I have read by reloading it is pretty good all around and surprising versatile and I hope the experienced gentleman here can verify this. The truth is I probably want the Lott the most. But I will be using this rifle for plinking on up and am not sure I can justify it. It is a bit heavier than the others but I don’t care. It has that nostalgia to me. Massive overkill for deer? You bet. I guess that makes me a sadist and that is ok too. Just like all the gentleman who plink and shoot pigs with all the doubles out there. We could use less gun, but why?

So what do you think? The sensible choice is the 9.3 and then the 375. But does the Lott, reloaded (and properly sorted) have the versatility I need, even if I don’t really need the power (yet)? Any advice or input is appreciated, even if you think I am loco for even considering the Lott.

Thanks for your feedback.

Mike

First of all welcome to the insanity...

Dont forget the 416 Ruger that is about to come out...

350 grain tsx bullets should be good for almost anything.

I like the Lott idea because you can work up to take mild to moderate recoil.

Have fun and shoot as often as you can. Accuracy kills more than anything.

my 5-cents worth: get something in the Lott range.
Take a look at the 450 Dakota/Rigby. They will allow you to make loads from 45-70 level to 460 Wby. The 450 Dakota is a 460Wbee minus the belt and goofy shoulder.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Neither the 9.3 or 375 would be an African stopping rifle

This is incorrect, I have used a 375 H&H on both buffalo and lion and it worked just fine. A lot of African PHs use the 375 on buffalo and even use them on hippo, elephant and rhino.

quote:

I like the idea of having only one rifle for everything and I like the bigger guns. This will be used for everything from deer on up in North America/Canada and eventually in Africa. I also want something Buffalo capable. I realize this is a compromise.

You just described the 375 H&H to a 'T'.
The 458 Lott probably is overkill for the job you described, but if you really want one I won't talk you out of it.

If I were to limit myself to one rifle to meet the requirements you've outlined, I'd pick either a 375 (H&H or Ruger) or the 9.3X64.

There are more than enough 9.3 bullets to fit any need. Bullet choice is not even a consideration. The 9.3X64 is a big step up from the X62 and the only real contender for the 375's claim to the versatility crown. It would help if you're a handloader.

A 375 ruger or a 416 ruger should be given a good once over. I would go with a 416 ruger now days over a taylor.

quote:

Originally posted by 375hhfan

The sensible choice is the 9.3 and then the 375.

When it comes to needing/wanting a rifle what's sensibility got to do with it? I'd take the .416 Taylor.

Namibiahunter

375HH;

The 375 is a catridge that you will be able to find the world over, the Lott, the taylor and the 9.3s, well, probably not. (but the lott will shoot the 458 WM quite well in a pinch).

I find the 416 witha 350 grn Speer or similar light bullet works well for NA game and plains game as well.

The 416s with a 400 solid or properly constructed soft are much more than adequate on the biggies.

416 Rigby is another cartridge that you will likely find in most locales.

My choice is the 416 Rigby; big enough, better SD than most of the 45s (okay, about the same) flatter shooting than all of the 45s regardless of bullet weight; and finally does what the 375 can do but much better....

A 416 Rem/Rigby/Taylor etc all do about the same, the largest capacity 416 (the rigby) does it with much less pressure and slower powders (and can be loaded up-in a bolt or SS to 416 Wby if you feel like 400grn/2400f-s/5000+f-lb ain't enough).

God Bless

Hi:

You could split the difference between the 375 H&H and the 458 lott answer is the 416 Remington Mag. A 400 grain bullet between 2400 & 2500 FPS will take on anything that walks the earth. Or handload a 350 to 2300 FPS for the smaller stuff.

But for all yout NA hunting the 375 H&H can be handloaded for all your needs, including the big bears. It will cover you in Africa also, but on the really big stuff like Buff and Ele I would rather take a 40 cal or bigger hammer.

I know you wanted just one but...but...but...My suggestion, not one rifle but two for the world. My choice would be 300 RUM & 416 Remington Mag.

The 416 Rem Mag I explained above, but the 300 RUM has three factory loadings available, a light recoil, meadium velocity, and FULL power a 180 grain bullet at over 3300 FPS. My 300 RUM has accounted for over 20 head of big game, from Steinbuck to Bull Elk and Red Stag. The Stag by the way was shot at 367 yards, one shot.

You are in good company with these calibers, good luck on your decision.

Regards... PAHunter

I think in a pinch, it would be easier to find the
375 HH amo or the 458 win.

One gun for everything up to and including buffalo, my vote, .375H&H. Classic cartridge, proven performer and readily available ammo. Almost a no brainer.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

You are correct in that context David C, but I was referring to stopping a charge in thick jesse at short range from an ele, where the odds are not in your favor with a 375/9.3, at least according to the great info and articles that used to be on the African Hunter Website written by Gayana (they are gone now though, bummer). Of course, I will probably never face that situation (knock on wood) but as the boy scouts say, “Be prepared.â€

Idaho Sharpshooter you were echoing my thoughts about using something in the 458 range as you suggest. I had not considered the other 416s as some others suggested, even though they are all great calibers and more than capable.

Based on your answers, I have a few more questions for you.

Now I understand the logical choice is probably the 375, but by hand loading can I get the 416s or the 458s to be as versatile as the 375, especially limiting my ranges to 300, usually less? I can upload or download as the upcoming need arises, making practice rounds and adjusting as needed. I have read that 458s are usually good with cast bullets, can the same be said with the 416s? I am pretty sure the 458 is available in bullets from 300-600 grains, can I do almost as well in the 416s, which I assume will be a bit flatter shooting all the time? By hand loading can I get the necessary versatility out of the 416s or 458s to hunt deer to pigs, bear to moose and elk, and eventually Africa?

Thanks again for your input. They say you should always be wary of the person who owns only one rifle and I want to be that guy. Lots of practice is the key.

Happy Shooting

Mike

Are you only considering factory rounds? If that were to be the case, my choices would be 375, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott. If you are considering non factory rounds, what about a 375 Ackley Improved. I believe you can get the rifle to shoot 350 grains bullets at 2500 -2600 fps, plenty of firepower for African game to include buffalo.

If I were in your shoes though, I think I might go with the .416 Rigby, especially if Elephant is on the menu. The 416 gives you the benefit of shooting 400 grain bullets and you can get the ammo in Africa, the same can't be said for the 416 Ruger.

When you say to be used for hunting in Canada where are you located?
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

I like the idea of having only one rifle for everything and I like the bigger guns. This will be used for everything from deer on up in North America/Canada and eventually in Africa. I also want something Buffalo capable. I realize this is a compromise.

You just described the 375 H&H to a 'T'.

If I were to limit myself to one rifle to meet the requirements you've outlined, I'd pick either a 375 (H&H or Ruger) or the 9.3X64.

There are more than enough 9.3 bullets to fit any need. Bullet choice is not even a consideration. The 9.3X64 is a big step up from the X62 and the only real contender for the 375's claim to the versatility crown. It would help if you're a handloader.

This post says it all...very well done...

For me it's the .375 hands down (pick the H&H or the Ruger model) and especially since you plan to hunt deer and elk and other big but not dangerous game.

375h&hfan
Mike, welcome to the forum. Could you put your location in the sig line so we can know where you are?
Well you said you don’t reload. While all the mentioned calibers are exhalent. You mentioned Africa some day. You would need to reload to get the range of optimal loadings in .458 Lott from 45-70 to full power loads So I would recommend the .375H&H. It can be bought with bullets from 235gr to 350gr will kill everything and think of the fun of hunting Africa with such a classic caliber that you have used extensively in the states. Well if you are going to be 375h&hfan then be the FAN.
Bill

The calibers you name are all good choices except the 416 Taylor, and its a good caliber but I feel its moribound with the introduction of the 375 and 416 Rugers, which would be my choice on todays market, both good modern rounds that solved all the belt bashers and long action problems that actually never existed, but consumed the minds of thoes who overindulged in therory and read too many articles in the gun rags...

I would run out and trade my good 375 H&H off just to buy a Ruger, but in your case they should be looked at...

That’s a good point Bill C.

I live in NW Ohio and will update my profile. Not exactly the big game capital of the world, granted. I have some friends who are pretty serious hunters (none have been to the Dark Continent as of yet though) who have been to Canada and Alaska after Bears, Moose and Elk. They use 300 and 340 weatherbys as their big guns. I want something different and yes they consider me a bit crazy to even consider the 375, let alone the 416s or Lott. But life is short and I will put in the time to make sure the boomer is not a liability for me. I actually consider range and practice time as relaxing and a good stress reliever.

Looks like the consensus is the 375. Ray, as good as the other 375s are (Ruger), I prefer the history and tradition of the H and H, even though I am not gaining anything with it, other than maybe a bit lower pressure for a bit less velocity. You are also probably right about the Taylor. As good as it is, it is in crowded, supported territory going forward. I have read the 375 also causes less meat damage than some of the smaller, faster calibers but I am not sure this is necessarily true.

I plan on learning to reload and understand the 458 L or the 416s would need to be hand loaded to make it even realistic. If not hand loading, the 375 certainly would make life the easiest. By hand loading can I realistically use a 416 or the Lott and get the same versatility as the classic 375? Are any good with cast bullets for practice? Is the 375 ok with cast, I have read the 458 is fine with them. But all the boomers are all pretty rare in my area, understandably.

It may come down to what I find in my searching. My local range is 250 yards so that is my maximum realistic max range if that helps any. I am around 6 feet and over 200 pounds so I do not consider it a liability to carry a 9+ lb rifle in the woods of PA, as these all will need to be. Is there anything I have not considered that I should? Can I assume that the reloading costs of the 375 and 458 will be similar and probably a bit less than say a 416 Rigby? I have checked midwayusa and some others and the 416 rigby is pretty pricey to use factory loaded ammo.

Keep the good advice coming. I really appreciate the input.

Mike

From your comments, it appears that you do not handload. If you do not handload, I'd stay away from the 416 Taylor and probably the 9.3x62 because ammo for it is not universally available. The 458Win is over kill for most things one hunts in NA and even though it can be loaded down, it then loses range. The 375HH is the best cartridge for the person who wants a versatile rifle capable of taking the largest animals on any continent and doesn't handload.

I would observe that unless you really rolling in do-re-mi, you may want to consider handloading because factory 375HH ammo isn't cheap. And if you handload, that puts the 9.3x62 and 416Taylor back on the table.

For me, a good place to start is the 9.3. First, it can step into the shoes of the 30-06 and all similar cartridges capable of shooting point blank out to 275yds with the 250gr bullet and, second, able to take large animals that might hunt you while you are hunting African plains game wit 286gr bullets. It is the perfect second rifle on an African hunt whether matched with a lighter rifle or as the light rifle.

The best balanced cartridge in the 40's for my money is the 416 Taylor or its twin the 425 Express. Both will do anything their larger cousins (404J, 416Rem, 416Rigby) will do only more efficiently. Further, most CZ actions will take five rounds of either of these cartridges in the magazine. That is a good thing.

The 458 and 458Lott are too much of a good thing. They kick too much for me and I am about your size. I can hit with my 458WM, but the recoil of my 8.5# rifle is too much physically for my body and my doctor recommended that I stop shooting it for fear of detaching a retina.

Summary: Handload and a 9.3 or 416Taylor, or don't handload and the 375HH. Kudude

Here's how I see it. A 9.3 will weigh 7-8.5lbs a 375 8 to 9.5lbs, 416s are 9.5 to 10.5 lbs and 458 of any kind will be 10.5+ lbs. There is a HUGE difference in recoil from the 9.3-375 range to the 458 Lott. 416s are a nice all around dg rifle and if you'll be doing alot of griz / brownie hunting a great choice. But for all around North American hunting the 9.3 brobably makes the mose sence. I would start looking at all the availble rifles and see what you like. The rifle you like may just make the decision for you...

Thanks for all the input everyone. As SWD says, it will probably come down to what I find and meets my needs.

Happy Hunting.

Mike

quote:

They use 300 and 340 weatherbys as their big guns. I want something different and yes they consider me a bit crazy to even consider the 375, let alone the 416s or Lott.

Yet the recoil from a 300 Wby is virtually the same as a .375H&H but minus all the obnoxious muzzle blast. If you can shoot a 300 or 340 Wby, you'll like the .375H&H a whole bunch. That's my vote.

LWD