The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 375 H&H vs. 375 RugerGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Been away for awhile and wondering whatever happened to Jeffe's Ruger vs. H&H test? Did a search and didn't find anything. | ||
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Ruger won!  "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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So did the 375H&H - in 1912 !!! Ruger MIGHT catch up - sometime - maybe !!! | |||
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Dont forget. This will be a test of gun powder technology NOT case design. The case volume is the same. The difference is new superformance powder vs old powder. The superformance was optimized for short barrels. The H&H can be purchased with either powder. You cannot beat that. If you like the 375Ruger results you can get that from the H&H with the superformance loadings. | |||
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A bit like that powder Hornady use in the 338 that no one can duplicate the ballistics of when reloading. | |||
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The post is 9 threads from the top of this page right now!   Rod -------------------------------- "A hunter should not choose the cal, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong" Bob Hagel | |||
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Well - almost the same... The Ruger is actually between the H&H and the 375 Wby in case capacity. In addition a more effective case design. Together it gives the Ruger some additional velocity compared to the H&H round everything else equal (barrel length and pressure) But in practical life - on game - there will be no difference between the H&H and the Ruger rounds. Neither between them and the 375 Wby. | |||
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IMHO, It is a negligible difference. No two things can ever be exactly equal, just a matter of at what point you round off the measurement. You are right though, it is between those two. As for difference, gun to gun variations should be more significant, I would guess. As for efficiency that is yet to be demonstrated. And, if that was the purpose of this experiment, then the same propellant technology would have been selected for both. In comparing the rounds it might be worth mention the H&H more taper design, although potentially less efficient, should be more reliable feeding and extracting. Some might prefer that trade off - and some might prefer the other. I will go with tradition. | |||
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Well if rifle is made right there will be zero issues with the Ruger round. I have lots of firsthand experience with both rounds and they are both reliable. I would say regarding the reliability issue that " gun to gun variations should be more significant".. | |||
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before we go into anything .. please recall that *I* am footing the bill for the joust .. FB was given ample opprotunity to participate .. and, one of the "dings" on the 375 ruger is the lack of ammo in africa .. okay, fine .. that also precludes the hornady superperformance loads as bing available for th same reason -- "too new" my position has alaways been that both have their merits ... and i am sick and tired of hearing BULLSPIT being spouted as gospel about the ruger from persons that have had zero experience with them ... if it made it to a factory rounds, fellas, there's a ton of market research that says its going to sell. facts being facts -- ruger has sold more 375 ruger guns in the last 1.5 years than they've sold 375hh guns... without a doubt there's been more 375 ruger sold in the last 1.5 years than winchester has sold 375 hh in the last FIVE years ... and puhlease! don't give me the crap about the rugers being resold .. if reselling numbers meant squat, the 22lr and 112ga would appear to be utter junk, based on the number in the used gun racks ... and the pile of them for sale from cabellas had been used as writers samples .. frankly, guys dinging the ruger without expereince are speaking from "fear" not from knowledge then your opinion is based on a bias, rather than facts, OH WAIT, whatever could that opinion be? which "tradition"? the 25" barrel, 300gr bullet at 2500fps, or a hot rodded, hot loaded, NON-traditional loading? this is the crux of your hypocrisy ... you want to compare one tradional load against a NON traditional load ... or cripple the ruger to tone it down to hh levels, or hop up the hh to make it be able to compare with the ruger actualy, this difference was compared when the weatherby 375 came out .. or when ackley improved th HH .. you see, the difference is NOT "negligable" ,, the ruger is actully CLOSER to the 375w .. the ruger is -2.5 grs of capacity less than the W ..the HH is 8.1gr smaller than the W... and the W, loaded at 65,000 tradiationally (oh, that's gotta hurt) goes 250fps faster than the hh, same length barrel .. there's your efficiency proof in the same length barrel, chum ...unless, of course, you now what to play games.. wait, roy already did all the efficiency tests you care to speak off no, sir.. i can't understand why you, as a tradionalist, would want a wildcatted loaded HH to be compared with the ruger.. but, i overcame my objection and offered to test them for you .. IF YOU PROVIDED THE FACTORY AMMO ... you refused.. so much for your involvement as anything other than a naysayer. you had the opprotunity to put your money where your mouth is .. you didn't, and you continue to whine about it .. send me 5 boxes of the hornaady super performance 375h and i'll shoot them, too, in the joust.. its within your "power" to correct it, but you would rather just whine.. in other words, put up or shut up utterly rubbish,based off half-fassed gunwriter opinions, not gunsmith. .. when you start with a model98 (this is THE standard and tradition for bolt guns) you have to do a HUGE amount of work to make it feed so nice .. and feeding is simply geometery expressed in steel.. anyone with a modicum of skill can overcome that. and, sir, it IS less efficient, not potentially ... lete's see .. ruger -faster, shorter barrel, cheaper starting action, fine feeding, ability to drop it into nearly any action, high performance as STANDARD, not as a single exceptional load, and designed for short barrels and actions.
actually, you aren't "going" with tradition, you are degrading the contemporary ... and without the first basis of fact to compare the ruger ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I am contemplating a Buff hunt next year and was concerned about taking my 375 Ruger after reading about ammo problems in Africa. So I contacted the PH I used for plains game in SA last year and asked him about the 375 Ruger. His response; "the cartridge is well known here and ammo is freely available throughout South Africa". I am sure his comment refers to the supply, not the price. So the nay-sayers can take one of the nails out of the coffin of the 375 Ruger. Hugh | |||
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How can either either one be significantly different after the bullet leaves the muzzle? The only difference is the launcher that you haul around with you. | |||
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That pretty well sums up the original thread’s arguments. Ouch! No that doesn’t take one nail out of the coffin that pretty well eliminates the “last nail” argument used to justify the 375 H&H over the upstart 375 Ruger for African hunting. Very likely will be the same situation with the 416 Ruger in the near future. Better yet, it’ll be the same manufacturer’s ammunition that you’ve been using for all that practice before your hunt…so perhaps it’s not such a bad situation having a sole source for ammunition. And it's reasonably priced as well. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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 Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Unfriggin' believable. I am criticized for not picking up part of the cost $$$ for an experiment I consider a waste of time. "Same" is the "same" is the "same". They are the SAME. Joisting and unbiased seeking of the truth- not with standing. Same is same. It is hard to make a convincing point that one is bigger, better, better feeding, more efficient or anything else when they are in fact so close. Ie. The SAME. The propellant might be different, heck even better. That we may see. Well , even on that there maybe some doubt since we are not using the H&H case for both powder technologies. There is that efficiency theory again. Results may or may not be interesting, but if the purpose is too PROVE the Ruger better and shut people up - I doubt it. Can we at least agree that superformance 375Ruger should be the same as superformance H&H. And for that reason there is no need to waste ammo on that comparison. | |||
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My time, my money, i'll test what I like .. Actually, you roundly criticize me for not picking up the cost of what and how you want it tested. You want it tested, you PAY for it.. Your attitude is the "Unfriggin' believable" part .. you demand this and demand that, and stipulate the other .. and for a tiny ammount of money, what you want can be done .. put up or SHUT UP ... It IS same vs SAME, mr traditional... traditional load of the 375 hh is 300gr at 2500fps with a 25" barrel ... and the ruger is TRADITIONALLY loaded to super peformance spec .. with off the shelf powders, btw, that many have been able to duplicate or beat. ... same vs same is NOT "super hot rodded non-traditional HH load to standard ruger load" ... either send the ammo and be evaluated, or drop it .. the burden of this is on you, chum. i've tried to be reasonable on this .. you haven't bothered to do so .. you've reached the end of my patience with your snarky, bullspit attitude ... however, this pic says everything i can think of to address your condition, as your problem is obvious  opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I am not going to shut up, I am not going to pay for YOUR experiment. That web site is full of childish pictures here is one for you:  Makes a lot of sense, huh? | |||
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Wait a minute ... get a piece of paper, write down what *I* am doing ... determine who pays for that next write down what YOU want done, on the coat tails of my work above ... YOUR part of the experiement, FB ... you know, the part you keep winhing about .. that jeffe won't test the 375hh superperformance ... endlessly ... when only YOU want it tested .. i don't shive a get for it, as your a traditionalist ... but you KEEP beating that drum ... your ONLY solution is to pay for the ammo you want tested, ot man up and STHU up about what you aren't willing to pay for ... If YOU aren't willing to PAY for the ammo, and none of the gear, then you don't actually give a damn about it being tested .. which means ... you are a whining hypocrit and ask yourself why would JEFFE pay for it? You think I am being childish, as I won't fork out a couple bills to experiement what suits YOU that you won't pay for? really? wow .. explains alot .. you keep mouthing off, but aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is? grown men put up or shut up .. but i see you aren't willing to do either ... says a bunch, at least to me. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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for the record -- i don't have a bow tie ... i tries to buy one this spring and it got vetoed! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Wading through the BS here allow me to reply to this..... I fully believe you....but RSA isn't exactly representative of all of Africa.....RSA, when I was there, had fairly good supplies of American ammunition. I visited stores in Johannesburg and Port Elizabeth.....great stores and good supplies of the stuff almost anyone could want..... I haven't been to other countries in Africa but might think supplies in Angola, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Zambia etc might be quite different.... Maybe someone with more African experience will chime in on this. Further....I doubt that RSA is the place most will want a DG cartridge....It's plains game is excellent however. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Jeffe Feel free to believe that BS, but don't expect the rest of us to buy in. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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From purely practical performance point I would think there is no statistically significant difference between them. I think most men and women think longer is better, no?  PS. I'm a cheap bastard with relatively short arms and medium size hands so Ruger would be my pick. I'm sure for tall Englishman with long arms and fingers .375H&H would work out better. | |||
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Jason, the same rubbish was said about the rum and wsm carts the first 3 years they where out .. i don't expect any different ... though i am surprised that he roundly dismisses the 9,3x64 as well .. and we all know that to be a wonderful round ... odd, aint it? read what else he said .. accuracy amazing, even with 350 gr bullets... .200 groups .. feeds fine, and it was the first one he did .. sounds like a ringing endorsement to me .. of course i did read the profit margin piece ... but since it was his first one, on a UNIQUE case, of course it was all one of a kind .. at 20 of a kind, it becomes a stock item .. and held 4 down? that's kinda cool, aint it? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Decent rhetoric but you are introducing a heavy dose of red herring. He said:"Getting it to feed was time consuming to say the least and NO it will not feed empties." Mr. Echols final comment:
I have nothing to add to that. It is clear that he does not see the 375 Ruger as the "next coming". But then, what does D'arcy Echols know...... Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I'll let this letter you posted from D'arcy say everything, --accuracy, velocity, propr pressure, and 4 down without a drop box in a model 70 ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I think the accuracy guys have proven that short fat cases are more accurate than long skinny ones. Also more efficent when it comes to amount of powder burned. The 375 Ruger is a shorter and fatter case so it should be accurate. Mr. Echols said he would not make another one due to profit margin concerns. I am guessing this relates to more labor than a 375 H&H requires so it must be more difficult to get to feed and function it appears. That is enough to keep me in the H&H camp. The other thing is I am not a fan of Ruger bolt action rifles. I have owned 5 and the only one I still have is an old tang safety 220 swift that has some sentimental value as it was bought long ago. It as most Ruger bolt actions I have owned would not shoot well out of the factory, on this one due to a rough chamber and excessive head space. I know you could make a 375 on another action but if doing that I think the H&H would provide better resale value. So I will stick with the old faithful H&H although I think your testing will show the 375 Ruger to be the faster cartridge. BigB | |||
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Not sure why this debate evokes so much emotion. . . . . Hmmmm, humanes are a rather odd bunch. . . . . I think it may be because most of the older H&H rifles were rather expensive. Now that Ruger has come out with a less expensive .375, those that paid high prices for their H&H feel cheated, and no-one like's to feel cheated, so they justify their anger by critisizing anything new and cheaper. I have owned both, and both are great! I currently just own the Ruger, and like it a lot. But it's not the cartridge so much as the light handy little rifle. Which is what brings us back to testing of the shorter barrels. Grow up and leave Jeffe alone, and let him do some testing. If anyone wants something special tested, then quit your whinning, and test it your selfs, or pitch in for the test. You go Jeffe! Can't wait for the results. Come on guys. . . it's just a couple of .375 cartridges! | |||
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I have a couple of 375's (H&H and Weatherby). Both will shot 3/4" groups (C to C) without a lot of tinkering. I love accurate rifles but most folks are shooting sizable game with these calibers. How much are you willing to pay for that extra accuracy and is it worth it? I shot my 458 WM yesterday with a pet handload. It shot 3 rounds into 1/2" @ 100 yards. A Browning Safari grade. Very light contoured barrels and bedded to the front recoil lug (Not free floated). My point is if you have any rifle that shoots straight,Ruger or H&H it is probably a keeper! EZ | |||
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love the pictures!!  DRSS | |||
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Jeffe- Great picture, but I doubt he'll understand! Do what I did about a year ago and put "fourbore" on IGNORE. You'll be glad you did!-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Some of the 375H&H guns I own or have owned have been tack holers - consistent clover leaves - and that was in bog standard factory CZ's, Holland's and my Jeffrey. I think accuracy is all relative to the type of gun, who made it, the chamber / barrel. Yes, the 375H&H has it's inherent problems but they can still be very good shooters. I agree with your last sentance, I'll stick with my H&H's. . | |||
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Whilst all this friendly chit-chat is a pleasant way to pass the day - I am eagerly awaiting the results of jeffe's trial work. I dont really care who is right or wrong in the shit-fight stakes , I wanna see them holes in the paper and the velocity readings please  ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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First of all, I have ZERO experience with the .375 Ruger so can neither condemn nor praise it. However, as someone who lives in SA, I can offer the following: .375 Ruger ammo is just about UNOBTAINABLE over here, in fact, just about nobody's ever heard of the cartridge in the broad spectrum of things. That PH who claimed that ammo was "freely available" over here doesn't know his arsehole from his elbow. There are exactly two gunshops in the whole of SA that offer .375 Ruger rifles for sale...and they're not exactly selling like hotcakes. I know this because I'm on reasonably friendly terms with the owner of one of those two shops. Africa's .375 H&H territory, and likely to stay that way for some time. I spoke to one of SA better-known reloaders and gunwriters recently and he told me that he's played with someone else's .375 Ruger not too long ago. Accuracy with our local powders was fine but velocity nowhere near advertised. I emphasise, this was with SA-made propellants. In addition, the Ruger M77's chambered for the .375 Ruger are briskly obtaining a reputation for being far too lightweight to house the cartridge, and some of them are litreally pounding themselves to pieces - there's a piece on this very subject in one of the local gun rags this month, in fact. Having said that, I own a Brno 602 in .375 H&H with a slightly shortened barrel (23-inches). Getting 2 580 fps with a 300-grain Swift is a breeze, and it shoots MOA at 100 metres as well. 300-grain Woodleigh solids trundle along at 2 600. All of this with our local S-365 and Federal Magnum primers in Remington cases. I honestly fail to see what more is required. That PH was speaking of Ruger .375 "H&H Magnum" rifles, ie the M77 Magnum that's available in .416 Rigby and .458 Lott as well - many of the young PH's over here aspire to own one, in fact. There are many of them floating around over here and they have a fine reputation. With all due respect, most SA PH's I've met won't recognize a ".375 Ruger", the real one I mean, if one bit them on the behind. As I've said, nothing for or against the .375 Ruger, but it will be a cold day in hell before it displaces either the 9,3x62 or .375 H&H here in Africa. | |||
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JVW, just to confirm something .. is the hornady 375 HH "superperformance" load for the HH readily available there? That load is something like 300gr at 2700 fps -- and we are wondering, is that on every shelf, right next to normal 375 HH loads? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe, Not even effeing close, mate! Last ones I saw for sale here was in 2007 (I think!) and the guys who sell Ruger and Hornady over here just giggle when you ask them about Superformance. Only "premium" .375 H&H loads I've seen over here lately have been Norma (forty rounds costs about as much as I paid for my rifle, so I haven't tried them), Remingtons loaded with 300-grain Swifts (in one particular shop), and the odd box of new Kynoch. That's about it, aside from a few boxes of "normal" Federal and the local PMP stuff (which I regard as shit). Others may have access to different stuff, however. The situation changes from town to town and from time to time, depending on who imports what. | |||
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I think the 375 is a better looking cartridge  That said, I won an h&h, because I got a great deal on it (650 for an unfired m70 safari express with sling and two boxes of ammo) back before the Ruger round was out. If I had it to do all over again now.....I'd buy whichever was cheaper! HA! performance is splitting hairs. I do like nostalgia and figure there's no flies on the h&h. buy what you like. Red | |||
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Thank you, JVW -- appreicate you confirming my suspission ... i would reckon, then.. that if testing the 375HH vs the 375 ruger, it would be rather pointless to test the superperformance -- as its made of unobtainium in RSA .. or the rest of africa, i presume opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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What JVW said was both Ruger375 and 375H&H Superformance were unobtainable. And, I believe, he was saying in general no Hornady DG ammo was to be found in his local. If "unobtanium" is a disqualification then neither should be tested. And please, JVW, clarify if I am wrong before I see another ugly posting from Jeffe. | |||
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nah, you'll see the same one ...
divide by zero error - opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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What JVW said was both Ruger375 and 375H&H Superformance were unobtainable. And, I believe, he was saying in general no DG Hornady ammo was to be found in his local. If "unobtanium" is a disqualification then neither should be tested. Please JVW, clarify if I am wrong. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 375 H&H vs. 375 Ruger
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