There is not a lot written about this caliber here on AR.

Who owns or has own one and what do you like and dont like about the caliber?

Shooting a 500-550gr 458 cal bullet at 2200 to 2350 fps looks like a good big game caliber...

Here's an H&H Royal in the NRA museum that was originally in 458W, then rechambered by H&H to 460G&A for Mr. Petersen. I don't know any more details.

Mine is on an Old Model 70. I started off with the data in van der Walt's book,"African Dangerous Game Cartridges".

I found about 100fps+/- advantage over the 458 Lott in my CZ with 500gr bullets. The hottest load I tried was 95gr of Norma N-203. My barrel is nearly 26" long. I averaged just a bit over 2400fps with Hornady DGX and DGS.

I use 375 RUM brass, as it is readily available here in the states, and it was easy for the gunsmith to just stamp .458/375 RUM on the barrel for when I take it to RSA or ZIM next trip.

I made half a dozen cases out of my stash of 404 Jefferys just to check. No difference in case capacity or velocity, but BELL is not making any more 404 J and I am keeping it for my old Mauser in that caliber.

When my 425 WR is finished, I am going to compare both brands of brass in it too.

You will like the 460 G&A...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Mine is on an Old Model 70. I started off with the data in van der Walt's book,"African Dangerous Game Cartridges".

I found about 100fps+/- advantage over the 458 Lott in my CZ with 500gr bullets. The hottest load I tried was 95gr of Norma N-203. My barrel is nearly 26" long. I averaged just a bit over 2400fps with Hornady DGX and DGS.

I use 375 RUM brass, as it is readily available here in the states, and it was easy for the gunsmith to just stamp .458/375 RUM on the barrel for when I take it to RSA or ZIM next trip.

I made half a dozen cases out of my stash of 404 Jefferys just to check. No difference in case capacity or velocity, but BELL is not making any more 404 J and I am keeping it for my old Mauser in that caliber.

When my 425 WR is finished, I am going to compare both brands of brass in it too.

You will like the 460 G&A...

Rich

Thanks Rich,

I am keeping fingers crossed for a possible Brnu 602 in 460 G&A that might be available.

It will be a working rifle as Trails Guide...

If you dont mind share a few photos of your rifle...

It would be about perfect for your intended use. I will try and get a few pictures up for you.

Its been around for a long time, I think one of the Ackley books has loads for it, probably in both the standard and short version..I played with one a bit some many years ago, back then it was fairly popular I suppose, but today its been pretty much surplanted by the 458 LOtt as have a number of the older wildcats..The Lott has some downside but its been legitimized commercially and that's worth a LOTT!

As far as current popularity,that could be Ray; but a quick check will tell you that the 458 Lott/Watts has 105gr capacity, and the 460 G&A has 120gr. To me, that is a significant increase in powder capacity.

I would not be surprised to see Remington legitimize this wildcat shortly. It would fit in perfectly in their line as the 45 caliber RUM.

As I mentioned, mine is barrel marked 450/375 RUM. It eliminates the hassles at African Customs Offices.

Rich's 460 GA

One of the pluses of the bigger 45s that is never mentioned is that when they are loaded back to equal the maximum load ballistics of the smaller cases then the scope gets a smaller jolt.

The reason is simply that the bullet has a more gradual acceleration. In other words if you load a 460 Wby with around 89 grains of 4064 or Varget or similar then you get about 2100 f/s with 500 grain bullet AT THE MUZZLE.....but if you chronraphed that load with a 2" barrel the velocity wold be lower than a 458 Win with maximum loads from a 2" barrel.

In addition such a load in a 460 Wby is about 15 grains below maximum for 4064 and 500 grain bullet.

The same will apply to a 460 G&A but to a lesser extent.

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Rich's 460 GA

Thank you,

Beautiful riflr.

look up 458 ultracat -- rum brass, but really close

thanks, Jeffe.

This one has already had the work done, but either would be great.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
thanks, Jeffe.

This one has already had the work done, but either would be great.

same cases, more modern powders usually listed, generally, renewed data for the 460 ga ..

in other words, more source data for loads for like carts, that most experienced reloaders could use

of course, 20 bucks on www.ammogguide.com provides tons of data

Rich did you start out with a RUM Mod 70?

Cheers, Chris

Nope, mine is a very old Old Model 70, serial number is 20,xxx that was originally a 30-06. A RUM would be a piece of cake for a good gunsmith.

Jim Kobe started with five holes in the receiver top, and a real Bubba Special.

He tig'ed the holes shut, made a set of custom bases to fit Talley QD rings, took a barrel off of a 700, turned the shank to fit the M70 and recut the threads. He had a lot of fun carefully indexing the barrel so that the original markings "450/375 Ultra Magnum" would line up at 11 o'clock as the original did. Using 375 RUM brass eliminates any issues in African Customs.

I purchased the dies, some brass, and some ammunition here last fall.

I am going to further test his skills with a Colombian Crest 98 Mauser in the spring. It will be a 425 Westley Richards. This becomes a very practical round, simply by using RUM brass and a magnum bolt face.

I am fairly popular with a couple of the gunsmiths here because I always bring them projects that are out of the ordinary.

Rich

I was home for a few days over new year for my parents memorial service,

But I also had to chance to do and look at the Bruno 602 460G&A I bought.

The license application was handed in on Tuesday morning before I flew back to Saudi as things currently stands I expect the license not before July this year...



PMP 475gr solid







I was pleasently surprised about the build in popup ghost ring in the action.

I will remove the V sights and only use the ghost ring sight.

The front sight will get a red optic fiber with hood for protection.

The stock will be pillar bedded if its not yet done.

Later on I will do a cercoat on the metal parts.

All in all is looks like and will be a great working rifle and caliber.

Will give more feedback once I have the license and start shooting with the rifle.

That is one fine looking DGR, and a real stopper with 500gr bullets at about 2350 or a bit more.

Add a good 300 Magnum of your favorite flavor, and you would be set for the world.

congratulations on a great find.

Rich

Is that a crack in the stock; coming from behind the bolt back into the checkering?

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Is that a crack in the stock; coming from behind the bolt back into the checkering?

I had a careful look at the stock and although it looked like a crack I could not find any.

We will know more once the smith start working on pillar bedding.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
That is one fine looking DGR, and a real stopper with 500gr bullets at about 2350 or a bit more.

Add a good 300 Magnum of your favorite flavor, and you would be set for the world.

congratulations on a great find.

Rich

Thanks Rich,

The 375H&H, 3006, 308, 260RemAi will probably mean I dont need a 300Mag.

Will keep you updated once I am back in the RSA and start shooting the 460.

Idaho Sharpshooter,
I am aware that the G&A, both in short version and Long, will out perform the .458 Lott, but for me anything more powerful than the Lott is just more of the same..Actually for me I don't shoot the big 45s or larger anymore..Im fine with the 404 Jefferys and 416s..Recoil gets to ya somewhere around 75 years old as best I recall, and been thinking 9.3x62 as of late!

heck Ray, I was going to let you use my 425 Westley Richards reamer and make you 50 cases.

I am having a 9,3x62 built.

DPCD here is a first rate gunsmith and he has some barrels in stock, and a chambering reamer. He did mine and NPD345's a little over a year ago, iirc.

The 458 Lott and the 460 G&A are often spoke about in the same conversation. Jack Lott designed both.

the basic choice is belted or non-belted. That, and the Lott has the head stamp.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:
I was pleasently surprised about the build in popup ghost ring in the action.

I will remove the V sights and only use the ghost ring sight.

The front sight will get a red optic fiber with hood for protection.

The stock will be pillar bedded if its not yet done.

Later on I will do a cercoat on the metal parts.

All in all is looks like and will be a great working rifle and caliber.

Will give more feedback once I have the license and start shooting with the rifle.

Don't forget to do something with that backwards safety!

I had my built a 460 G&A on a ZKK 602 action some years ago.
I used 95grs of Witha N150 powder behind a 500grs bullet, and got 2380 fps steadily without pressure signs.
Used RWS 404J brass expanded.
Lot of fun, kicked in both ends.. Only killed a small moose, but it was more than dead..

M

quote:

Originally posted by metric:
I had my built a 460 G&A on a ZKK 602 action some years ago.
I used 95grs of Witha N150 powder behind a 500grs bullet, and got 2380 fps steadily without pressure signs.
Used RWS 404J brass expanded.
Lot of fun, kicked in both ends.. Only killed a small moose, but it was more than dead..

M

Thanks Metric,

I will be working towards the 2300fps with the South African powders...

I am sure she is going to kick a bit but then addicted to recoil is a lot of fun.

Do you still have the rifle?

This is the rifle today.
Rebuilt and rebarreled to 404 Jeffery.

M

Lovely rifle M

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Rich's 460 GA

Thank you,

Beautiful riflr.

Extremely nice rifle

Here is a link to other forum about the .460 G&A . http://www.africahunting.com/t...s/the-460-g-a.23005/

Norma USA makes as i know bulk brass, Hornady also makes it , Much cheaper than norma. If you want the best . 404 brass, there is RWS to be had. I have used them for my .404 much and they are very good.

Bob Peterson`s .460 G&A double was a flanged cartridge as i remeber.

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-m...ifle-460-ga-cal.aspx
http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/...user-460-ga-cal.aspx
And one of the rifles G&A built

Well the belted vs. non belted age old argument never ment much to me, both seem to work fine, and Lord knows the 300 and 375 H&H have proven their worth except to those who live in high tecdom, USA...If the gun feeds, extracts,kills big game, and is accurate, I can live with the rest.

The 460G&A is busy with a makeover currently.

The metal has been Cerakoted.
The synthetic stock has been build and bedding will be done in the 1st week of April.

The work is being done by Armtec South Africa.

I will add a red optic fiber front sight to compliment the peep sight.

Once Armtec has completed the work they will send me a few photos that I will share.

Moshe-Moshe, can't wait...

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:
The 460G&A is busy with a makeover currently.

The metal has been Cerakoted.
The synthetic stock has been build and bedding will be done in the 1st week of April.

The work is being done by Armtec South Africa.

I will add a red optic fiber front sight to compliment the peep sight.

Once Armtec has completed the work they will send me a few photos that I will share.

They make nice stocks - Greg Woods had one on his 458 Lott and I have one on my 375 H&H.

Are you going to leave the safety as God intended or are you going to mess with it?

quote:

Originally posted by Bren7X64:

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:
The 460G&A is busy with a makeover currently.

The metal has been Cerakoted.
The synthetic stock has been build and bedding will be done in the 1st week of April.

The work is being done by Armtec South Africa.

I will add a red optic fiber front sight to compliment the peep sight.

Once Armtec has completed the work they will send me a few photos that I will share.

They make nice stocks - Greg Woods had one on his 458 Lott and I have one on my 375 H&H.

Are you going to leave the safety as God intended or are you going to mess with it?

I had one on my 500Jeff and the one on my 375H&H performs flaw less.

No the safety will be as designed and manufactured I see no need to mess with it.

Its as good as any 458 caliber out there, the full equal in the field as the 458, 458 Lott, and a dozen others..

Ive shot them, never hunter with one as I recall, but have seen a number of buffalo shot with the caliber, Its a great caliber, that said today with the legitimizing of the 458 Lott and factory ammo available, I would opt for the Lott, but that's just me...but that won't happen anyway, I like the 40 calibers for DG and the older I get the less recoil I desire to contend with.

As promised here are a few of the photos received from Armtec.





Sorry about the quality of the photos as it was taken with a mobile phone but I am sure you will get the idea.

I have asked for more close up photos.

I am happy with the progress.

The pop up ghost sight with a red optic fiber front sight will make the 460G&A bush proof.

AAAARRGGHHHHHhhhhhh!!! That trigger!!!

Are you going to keep it?

I have 8 BRNOs of various calibres, and I really dislike that set trigger.

The CZ one is sort of OK, but the standard BRNO trigger is best (in my not very humble at all opinion).

quote:

Originally posted by Bren7X64:
AAAARRGGHHHHHhhhhhh!!! That trigger!!!

Are you going to keep it?

I have 8 BRNOs of various calibres, and I really dislike that set trigger.

The CZ one is sort of OK, but the standard BRNO trigger is best (in my not very humble at all opinion).

I will shoot it with the trigger as its now.

If its a pain I will look at alternatives.