Get one then!

quote:

Now let's see of if anyone with any real experience can explain the TRUE benefit of a CRF rifle!

What is the answer?

quote:

Originally posted by Leo M:

quote:

Now let's see of if anyone with any real experience can explain the TRUE benefit of a CRF rifle!

What is the answer?

One of the things I like about CRF is that you can chamber a round but not turn down the bolt handle and you only have to pull the bolt back to remove the round. With Push Feed you either need to close the bolt (and thus load the rifle) so as the extractor will engage the case rim or point the rifle upwards so the cartridge will fall back.

Most Australian shooters do not carry a rifle loaded and with safety catch on....we tend to just have the bolt pushed forward but the bolt handle not turned down.

CRF is also good for running cartidges through the magazine to check feeding as you do not need to turn the bolt handle down and thus load the rifle.

In my experience the most reliable feeding rifles are push feeds with in line or centre line feeding such as HS Precision rifles, Rem 700s with HS Precision magazines and the Weatherby rifles that are chambered in one of the Wby calibres based on the 378 case ie. 30/378, 338/378, 378, 416 and 460 Wby.

My experience has also been that rifles such as the 303 SMLE and Weatherby rifles where the magazine box completely controls the feeding...are the most reliable.

Mike

Leo,

If you do enough "rough and tumbled" using of a bolt action in the appropriate "theater of operations" you will figure it rather quickly.

Hint: you won't need to pick up a cartridge that "accidently" just flew out of your rifle. BTW, I am not referring to operator error!

In my experience the most reliable feeding rifles are push feeds with in line or centre line feeding such as HS Precision rifles, Rem 700s with HS Precision magazines and the Weatherby rifles that are chambered in one of the Wby calibres based on the 378 case ie. 30/378, 338/378, 378, 416 and 460 Wby.

My experience has also been that rifles such as the 303 SMLE and Weatherby rifles where the magazine box completely controls the feeding...are the most reliable.

Mike[/QUOTE/]
I have read this very thing from a number of Australians, and my guess is that Australians do a lot more shooting than Africans do so they might know quite a bit.
Not to discount African PHs but most seem to be predgedous and are used to using the crf but how much shooting have they accually done and with Weatherbys in particuler.
Maybe a lot more than I think.

40-65,

The Aussies are shooting at real dangerous critter most the time too, aren't they.

quote:

I have read this very thing from a number of Australians, and my guess is that Australians do a lot more shooting than Africans do so they might know quite a bit.
Not to discount African PHs but most seem to be predgedous and are used to using the crf but how much shooting have they accually done and with Weatherbys in particuler.
Maybe a lot more than I think.

I would venture a guess that a lot of African PHs are use to hunters without a lot of rifle experience and therefore reccomend a CRF to cut the risk of short stroking the bolt. I still think that the biggest reccomendation is to bring enough gun but not so much that you scan't shoot it.

John

Scott- I don't think you have the slightest clue why a CRF is actually infinately better than a push feed! Your just TROLLIN again.
Why don't you tell me? I'll tell you if your right. MY Clue is CRF? Your Turn?-Rob

Trollin, Trollin Trollin
Keep that Bullshit Rollin
Never stop your Trollin
ScottS!

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
40-65,

The Aussies are shooting at real dangerous critter most the time too, aren't they.

The most dangerous game in the world is a hidden tree stump when you are chasing roos or pigs. one reason why a lot of shooters prefer to do it on stripped wheat paddocks. Sort of combines shooting and sprintcar racing

Mike

Wbypower - you have mentioned this roo chasing before and IIRC, someone posted photos of you crazy Aussies hauling ass in a pickup with a roll bar while shooting at roos - man, that looks like a kick in the head (a fun time)
Any chance you got that photo?

Oh, back on topic - I have both CRF and push feed, they both work fine for me - practice often in real world shooting positions and situations works well to fine tune shooting technique - but, like someone said recently, there is always a "but" or that rascal Murphy will show up...

KMule

KMule

No, I have got no pictures. I have a digital camera now and will start taking pictures. PC who posts here might have some pictures.

Some shooters have a vehicle made up and the vehichle will have a bench rest set up and loading presses mounted as well. Having the reloading gear mounted on the vehicle is very handy because some of the big properties we shoot on can mean you can be miles from where your gear is stored.

On the CRF/PF pro roo shooters virtually all use Rem 700, Sako or Vanguard/Howa. Personally it does not worry me too much one way or the other. However, for an expensive rifleI like the rifle to mact the calibre. In other words for an expensive 375, 404 or 416 Rigby etc I would want the Mauser style action. But for Wbys it must be a Wby Mark V and if I had any of the Rem Ultra mags I would have the HS Precision rifle.

My definition of being depressed would be to have something like a 404 on a Wby Mark V

Mike

quote:

If you do enough "rough and tumbled" using of a bolt action in the appropriate "theater of operations" you will figure it rather quickly.

Hint: you won't need to pick up a cartridge that "accidentally" just flew out of your rifle. BTW, I am not referring to operator error!

I am a true neophyte, it would be rather nice if you would answer the question instead of giving me more riddles. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for your help.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo M:

I am a true neophyte, it would be rather nice if you would answer the question instead of giving me more riddles. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for your help.

I would be impressed if he could answer your question. He spends most of his time parroting a misunderstood article he read on a 20 year old magazine article.

Let me sumnarize, Blah blah CRF, Blah Blah, if you spent time in the bush, blah blah brass in the air, blah blah, two rounds in the chamber at the same time, blah blah crazy australian, blah blah push feed sucks, blah blah never hunted with either a push feed nor a CRF, blah blah blah.

If you feel more comfartable with CRF more power to you. If you practice your rifle, you will be extremely well served by a Weatherby.

John

There is the hybrid type action too. The pneumatically actuated, Controlled-Round and Push-Feed Action Design. It's known as the CRAPFAD in Northern Transylvania where it was invented. Problem is that it only works with steel cased ammo as the controlling is done with an electromagnetic system. The battery for the system is located in the buttstock and recharges on European 680 3 Phase AC. The real drawback is when using the rifle during high humidity and ultra low temperatures (-40 F), it tends to stick to anything steel which is nearby like your steel toed boots, pocket knives, etc.

Now remember, CRF rifles only work properly with 1-10" twist barrels, regardless of caliber!
Damn, we need something better to argue about. But regardless, ScottS still keeps on coming back like the presistant hemorrhoid he is.
I wonder, if they perfect the technology of a rail gun into a small-arms size rifle, would it be CRF or PF?
I'm feeling slightly demented tonight due to lack of sleep. Think I'm going to wait until I get the feeling back in my fingers, take some medication and go to bed.
BTW-has anyone seen that extractor by Ed Brown? The one that's supposably the best of both worlds...any truthful experience or comments?

Seen high res. close up photos. Looks like pretty good design but no feedback about function. Been making lots of metal bits and parts have we Mr. Metalsmith?

Made a brake pad today out of sheer boredom, got the new MasterCam X program so I decided to see what it was capable of. Had a 24-hour post yesterday/this morning, so most of today consisted of me standing around drooling. Templated a engraving on a P-17 action as well.
Saw something interesting on gunbroker the other day, something Big Al brought up to me. A double rolling block rifle, well this was a cape gun but still. A unusual design. However I don't believe it would stand up to modern cartridges without significant modifications. Especially if Robgunbuilder and hubel458 get involved!

Why don't you turn a Blunderbuss barrel or something while you're hangin out! With the gear you have and 24 hours to kill you could make about anything.

Oh no no no, that wasn't at the shop! Shoulda been more specific, it was area guard. I wasn't allowed to go to work until I was relieved this morning.

To mee it looks like rem 700 meets Sako 85. I am not sure if it is the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds, but it shows that at least two mfgs figured out how to make an inexpensive CRF out of a PF.

John

Hey John!

I heard the pig hunting is pretty good way up north where you are. I also heard that for $1,000 I could get a Sasquatch tag for this falls one week season.

I want to know more about this CRAPFAD actioned rifle you been blathering about...

Rich
DRSS

I was in northeastern Hungary recently and saw a guy use one on a feral elk. It was kind of strange looking with a weird sight on it. Through my translator ( they speak a dialect called Magyaromanukrainovak ) I learned that the action was originally developed in what's now Transylvania for use in close range game management during the 1910's. From what I was told the action uses high voltage to hold the cartidge to the convex bolt face and the action itself is actuated by a small pneumatic ram installed parallel to the bolt. The source for the air is a rechargeable cylinder imbedded in the forestock. So to cycle the action one would push a button on the tang and the pneumatic and electric systems work together.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Hey John!

I heard the pig hunting is pretty good way up north where you are. I also heard that for $1,000 I could get a Sasquatch tag for this falls one week season.

Montery, San Luis Obispo, Santa Cruz, and Napa counties all have a lot of pigs, some are pretty decent. Sasquatch meat is a bit hairy for me, I usually pass. We do have a 2 day unicorn season, the tags are pretty pricy though!

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by bearhunter762:
would someone give me an example of a WW1 or WW2 bolt action service rifle that WAS NOT CRF?

Carcano rifles were not CRF. Neither were Mosin nagants. I think the French used a Lebel 1886, which I think was not a CRF, not sure though.
John

No french service rifle is CRF.

btw for a few posts above, CRAPFAD, unicorn and all

All this talk of weatherby's, I had to take my .340 out and blas some paper/steel. Wouldn't you know it, all 9 lugs are still on it. No Bruises on the shoulder, I even manage to print a 1/2 moa group with factory 250 gr SP. Whats this world coming to.

John

Sounds like you're having some reliability issues there Mr. Big Bore Boar Hunter! Perhaps you should upgrade to a double elliptical bridge CRAPFAD. I'm told the early elliptical actions were the best.

Back to the original point:

Yes, a Weatherby Mark V is a pushfeed action with 9 locking lugs and much like the ridiculous double radius shoulder cartridges it uses with 0.5" of freebore it is pretty much useless in most practical applications.

A POS marketing exercise - nothing more.

Toadhead....does your mother know you're up past your bed time??

Sure it is Toadhead!

Even the mini-mark V in .224 with only 6 lugs has performed perfectly in the field and on the range.

But I speak from actual experience, "nothing more".

I'm thinking I need to order up another MK V from the custom shop. Hmmmm......what shall it be?

quote:

Originally posted by keithv35:
Sure it is Toadhead!

Even the mini-mark V in .224 with only 6 lugs has performed perfectly in the field and on the range.

But I speak from actual experience, "nothing more".

Damn that 224 Weatherby is so powerful it blew off three locking lugs..... I am so glad mine has nine, by the end of the year I may be down to four or five.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
I'm thinking I need to order up another MK V from the custom shop. Hmmmm......what shall it be?

Thats a tough one.... If you have a 340, what else do you need.... I know.. A 416wby would be kinda cool! I could have fun taking that one squirrel hunting!.... Oh wait, I forgot, I have some Unicorn tags left... That horn is great for ice cream cones.

John

I have a .30-378 & .460 but I'm thinking I need a custom .378. The Unicorn Horns in your area are contaminated with Strontium 90 so best use them as a signal instrument for calling in Sasquatches.

A .30-378 is a .378 wby in progress. AFTER 500 rds you'll need a new barrel anyway. Go for it now.-OB

You might be on to something Rob! Could be a kit deal. Buy a .30-378, shoot a few rounds and then send it back for an upgrade to .338-378, shoot a few more rounds and then send it back for an upgrade to .378, then .416, then .460! Hell send it back for a .500 make over too.

Sorry you lost me there....who's -OB?

Or go straight to the 550 Magnum. Ought to feed with little or no mods to the feed lips.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
All this talk of weatherby's, I had to take my .340 out and blas some paper/steel. Wouldn't you know it, all 9 lugs are still on it. No Bruises on the shoulder, I even manage to print a 1/2 moa group with factory 250 gr SP. Whats this world coming to.

John

Well, one thing for sure Weatherby actions are either in somebodies HATE list or somebodies LOVE 'EM list.
I'm neither, don't have any now, but have had them and used them. Roy and his guns were sure on my love list back in the late '50's, '60's and early '70's when his were the only left hand game in town, just about anyway. Otherwise Mathieu made a few and then there was the conversions, used them too.

quote:

Originally posted by toadhead:
Back to the original point:

Yes, a Weatherby Mark V is a pushfeed action with 9 locking lugs and much like the ridiculous double radius shoulder cartridges it uses with 0.5" of freebore it is pretty much useless in most practical applications.

A POS marketing exercise - nothing more.

toadhead,

Which Wby calibres have .5" freebore?

The 378 and 460 are more than .5", much more.

The 224, 240 and 416 are different to the other Wbys and like the other Wbys (except 378 and 460) are less than .5"

It would appear that your Wbys are collector rifles

My email is in my profile and if you could email me part of the serial number of your rifles I will give the numbers to the Wby custom shop in the next week or so.....they could be keen to buy your special Wbys

Mike

Question:

How do these big Weatherby rifles get away from stock cracking without crossbolts or secondary lugs?