Well,
Talked to remington they said "The end of the year" ...

But wouldn't say WHICH year...

and the MSRP has gone up from $539 to $734

and weight has gone down to 6.5 from 7.25 #

that's one way to make certain they don't get loaded hot, aint it? not even I would shoot them hot at 6.5#
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_r...dels/SPR22_specs.asp

Before it's said and done, it will be 2021 and 15k$

I give up on the group buy. Sorry guys, Please place your order with your local gunshop...

i'll get one once they are in, if they ever do.

jeffe

Maybe a ploy to see how viable doubles are in NA.
Or the rifles are so unsafe that they are scrambling
to fix the blunders.

I wonder why Ruger, Browning or Weatherby can't build on their double shotguns?

Does this mean that we have time to work on my double rifle project?

Rusty,
yeah, it does...

you wanted an 8# 577 2 3/4, right?

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
Maybe a ploy to see how viable doubles are in NA.
Or the rifles are so unsafe that they are scrambling
to fix the blunders.

Safety issues have been my take on this for some time now......and further there's reason to believe there's issues with the Model 798 and 799 since they, too, are lacking in the stores.

If this is true it actually gives Remington some amount of credibility to not issue them as there's little doubt that they want them on the market ASAP to start recouping their investment in the business.


There are two more key possibilities to the delays and both seem to be fitting given the surface of Remington as of late.
one is potential lack of operating capitol to get the product to market (hense the increase in cost) and the other is just flat out incompetence.

What else is there?????....you guys take your pick!!!

That double is made by Baikali in Russia, and they are as i have heard,good rifles at a good price

I was somewhat interested in a double rifle in 45-70 for a while. If they get to the store floor and I can see one just like I buy other guns then I may make one of those impulsive gun purchases. Thats the fun of guns.

I chased Remington for information on the doubles for over a year, and like Jeffe I've given up on trying to get to the head of the line. When I see one on the street I'll look into buying one.

Last year Remington could have had my money for the gun sight-unseen, now I'm going to inspect one before I commit.

for the list price of a CZ, I am having a hard time with buying a $200 shotgun with rifled barrels for nearly 4X that cost.

and I agree with Fjold.. sight unseen a year ago... inspection now.

jeffe

Remington is pricing them selves out of the market place, without ever getting the product to market. $500-550 they would see a lot of deer, pig, and black bear hunter picking up a fun 45-70 SxS. At $800+ it will be a hard sell for what is an mildly ugly SxS shotgun, with rifle barrels.

Hog Killer

I gave up on Remington and Bakail and bought a Merkel. I know it is much higher priced, but I actually have it. Merkel didn't give me a 4 year run around. This thing is ending up being the joke of all jokes. If they can get them to us for $500.00-600.00 that will be fine. Any more than that won't fly.

I would agree with the cost assessment if it were not for the fact that you cannot buy a new Ruger boltgun for that $750 price guide, MSRP. If it comes in at the price of a RSM they will sell.

JMHO again

Rich

The original price was too low and even $750 or so might not be enough. Sure enough when you have the gun it won't be good enough for some reason and some may say that this or that is necessary and they should have made it 'better'.

Wood aside I would like to see a well functioning rifle. Whats the matter with $1200 for one if you could actually use it and hit stuff with it?

That is a big "if" 99. $1200.00 doesn't sound like a bargain to me for a cheap shotgun with rifle barrels. But each to his own.

Bakail by any name is at best a throw away or truck gun. Not that I wouldnt buy one just because it is a double

But judging from the bakails/spartans shotguns I have held be prepared to be disappointed..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:

Safety issues have been my take on this for some time now......and further there's reason to believe there's issues with the Model 798 and 799 since they, too, are lacking in the stores.

If this is true it actually gives Remington some amount of credibility to not issue them as there's little doubt that they want them on the market ASAP to start recouping their investment in the business.
QUOTE]

Vapodog, the 798 & 799 are Zastava Mausers yes the exact Yugo Mauser 98 both mini and lrg ring that the Mark X and the Charles Daly were with the exception that Remington is selling it with a brown laminate stock and asking 15% more than it sold for a Daly. Remington outbid Zastava's most current importer KBI (Daly) for the rights to import.
To my knowledge no Zastava 98 under any name was anything but safe and accurate. Interarms Whitworths are bringing $850 or more IF you can find someone to give one up.

quote:

Vapodog, the 798 & 799 are Zastava Mausers yes the exact Yugo Mauser 98 both mini and lrg ring that the Mark X and the Charles Daly were with the exception that Remington is selling it with a brown laminate stock and asking 15% more than it sold for a Daly. Remington outbid Zastava's most current importer KBI (Daly) for the rights to import.
To my knowledge no Zastava 98 under any name was anything but safe and accurate. Interarms Whitworths are bringing $850 or more IF you can find someone to give one up.

I'm 100 % aware of this.....but it begs the question.....where are they?.....why aren't they available??????.....what is causing their delay?????

I assure you that I don't know!!!!!but what can it possibly be?????

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
The original price was too low and even $750 or so might not be enough. Sure enough when you have the gun it won't be good enough for some reason and some may say that this or that is necessary and they should have made it 'better'.

Wood aside I would like to see a well functioning rifle. Whats the matter with $1200 for one if you could actually use it and hit stuff with it?

Because I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .300 Weatherby at Wal-Mart for $299, and it's submoa!

quote:

Before it's said and done, it will be 2021 and 15k$

Yes, and since they won't sell many at that price, it won't be around long, even if it finally arrives.............

talked to remington today.. and they said end of THIS year, again..

which means next month they'll say "mid 2007"

jeffe

So, what is the "price" now

Hog Killer

Remington has already cost me money, even before the Spartan has seen the light of day. Here in NSW,Australia, we have to spend $30.00 for a "permit to accuire" before we pick up a new rifle. The permit takes to 6- 8 weeks to process. I was originally told March, then September --"no worries". I stupidly spent $30.00 and held my breath. A permit is only good for 3 months, regardless of what happens.
I should have spent that $30.00 on Jack Daniels, at least I would have a hangover to show for it.
Malcolm

quote:

Talked to remington they said "The end of the year" ...

Did you mean to say, "the end is NEAR"??

quote:

Originally posted by Brain1:
I gave up on Remington and Bakail and bought a Merkel.

You'll never regret it!

talked to the product manager yesterday...

they "firmly expect this to be in dealer inventory before christmas 2006"

I htink I placed my "first" order for one of these with a June 2002 delivery

Let me know what you think of it when you get it in hand. I'll probably buy one anyway but I would like to get a review of one first........now.

Jeffeosso....sent you a PM. Thanks.

My guess is these guns will never actually become avaliable. Remington has been jacking everyone off with these guns for years, and are no closer to delivering them now then they were then. Remingtons current bottom line, along with piss poor management has me wondering if they will even be around in a few years. Big green has slipped in the last several years. They just may slip right off the dock. Bill T.

That is what happens when you tie yourself at the hip to the big mart/box stores. If walmart completely stops selling guns will Remington survive? I doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:
Remingtons current bottom line, along with piss poor management has me wondering if they will even be around in a few years. Big green has slipped in the last several years. They just may slip right off the dock.

They will follow the fate of Colt and Winchester, I guess. Sad.

Carcano

I have to agree that I don't think these will ever become available. I hope I am wrong, but if Remington can't seem to get the 798 out I don't see much hope for the Spartan. The 798 is a rifle that is already in production, has been for several decades, under different names, but still the original manufacturer. All Remington had to do was put a new stock on and stamp their name on it....seems like a easier thing to do than trying to get the Spartan line going. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

If wallyworld stopped selling guns, i would imagine ruger, winchester (what's left) browning, charles day, savage, and remington would tank in sales.


Well, let's be certain, the russians have made SOME of these, a trickle here and there...

and remington says the bugs are worked out, and should be here..

but it's the first time i've called over 60 days and gotten the same date.

to be fair, remmington is about 18months with the "label".. EAA couldn't bring them in, in number.

jeffe

quote:

remmington is about 18months with the "label".. EAA couldn't bring them in, in number.

If EAA couldn't do it, why would Remington be able to? They're both trying to get them from the same guys. This whole thing stinks on ice and is like hoping for a good looking girl to ask you to the prom, AND have hot sex in the same night. Dream on. Bill T.

Well, I have examined the O/U's by Baikal, and they sure as hell didn't turn me on! I hope ther SXS's are better......

I've handled the Spartan single shot shotguns, they leave a lot to be desired, if their sxs are just as "good", they can forget me as a buyer!!

Most all this stuff is cheap a$$ low grade Russian crap. I know a few will argue but those are the facts. What do you think these guys are making to produce these guns? $25.00 per hour? Doubtful. The quality will reflect this. What are the investment and labor costs of a Grade VI Citori? What are they for a "Bakail". You get the message. Would you want a kid from Wal-Mart to build your house or car? It's bad enough when they change your oil! Bill T.

When I first heard about a side by side double in 45-70 I got a little sweaty. You know that feeling where you have the gun in your hand at the gunshop and you might buy it.

I was dreaming of some way that it would be a cool gun for woods hunting with flat nosed cast bullets on deer. Somehow the moment has passed and I cooled off.

Still if the gun was safe too shoot someone will have fun with it. You can always refinish the stock and tweak it some.

Don't know what they are doing over in Russia these days. They seem to do the minimum finish wise but I bet that they could do beter if they had to. Thats a big had to as I have no clue how it will happen. What is Remingtion asking Russia to do anyway? Make it cheaper yet for even greater margins to support the Remmy overhead. Given how bean counters rule thats the best bet. Too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:
Most all this stuff is cheap a$$ low grade Russian crap. I know a few will argue but those are the facts.

Bill,
You certainly have stated your POV, and I respect that. I trust you'll respect mine.

the izh43 has come along way in the past 6 or so years. In fact, it had begun to get a following in the cowboy action shooting, as a starter gun.. this is a reworked izh43...



I have held the "new" remington shotgun, SxS...

it aint a purdy, but it's not a norinco either... it's more like a stoeger coach gun -- which i proudly have, which is no huge beauty, but hell for stout. The remington comes with FUGLY wood... that's cool, wood I can fix in a weekend...

But you can't compare a $739 list double rifle, in any fashion, with a top grade semi custom...

Kinda like comparing a Breeding to a savage 110 chieftan...

no relationship, especially in terms of money.

If they look like this, and shoot minute of softball at 75yards, I'll be tickled



jeffe

quote:

If they look like this, and shoot minute of softball at 75yards, I'll be tickled.

When is the last time you got a hamburger at Burger King, and it looked like the one in the picture? Bill T.