I really like the tang safety that Ruger used to have on guns. Why is it not popular on big bores?

I don't know the answer but I have the same question. I have a .338 and a 7 mag with the tang safety and they work fine for me because I shoot double shotguns alot.
Maybe Ruger switched to the Model 70 safety because of the popularity of the Model 70.

My opinion only! Tang and side safeties just kind of get in the way of the trigger (block it from moving...hopefully)

A M-70 or Mauser trigger actually effectively blocks the firing pin from moving forward no matter what's going on with the trigger.

That's one of the reasons there are aftermarket safeties to retro fit to Rem 700's and the likes.

It's just plain SAFER!

Prefer the M70 and M98 mauser style safety on any bolt gun, big or small. I can see it, understand it and have confidence in it. Direct action on the firing pin, no indirect action from down under bs.

Three positions also give one the option of unloading the chamber by working the bolt while on the "safe" mid position.

I cannot remember ever having seen a double rifle with a Mauser safety? Seems they have worked fine for well over 100 years with tang safeties.

As far as bolt guns, my favorite rifle is the Browning A-Bolt ll, which has a - wait for it - tang safety. It has never caused me a problem and has never failed. IMO the tang safety is much easier to use and is my preferred safety; just can't get one on anything bigger than a .375H&H.

Given a choice (buying a Ruger) I would opt for the tang safety. You do not have to move your finger very far to go to fire or back to safe. It does seem odd that they are the only type used on DRs, and no complaints there.

Rich

quote:

Three positions also give one the option of unloading the chamber by working the bolt while on the "safe" mid position.

A useless benefit IMHO.

Can't see any other make of rifle where its particular safety has been altered to allow this.

I think that it is a feature of the Mauser system that has been attempted to be "sold" as a benefit.

In theory a tang safety can be overlooked...in that the user could "forget" to put it to "OFF" and literally overlook it.

Certainly I've done so with side-by-side shot guns at times. With DG it could be more than just a embarrassment!

For that reason I've seen side-by-side guns where the tang safety has been made "non-automatic" to stop it re-setting to "ON SAFE" every time the gun is opened.

At least the Mauser flag is "bleedin obvious" as even a side safety can sometimes be overlooked.

I think that the best compromise is the British SMLE and No4 in that it is a side safety that is on the LEFT side of the gun and so easily seen as the gun is raised to the shoulder. And also falls easily to the thumb...although recommended practice was to put it to "OFF" with the trigger finger.

I don't think the Ruger tang safety blocks the firing pin just the trigger. Maybe they didn't want to end up like the Remington 700.

My 'go to' guns are all Ruger 77 with tang safety(30-06, 338wm and 458wm). I have many others-- but to me it is instinctive. The one that I least like is the model 70 wing.

The tang safety is perhaps the easiest of all safeties to work with the thumb because of its location, whilst one's hand is in grip. How it stacks up in terms of safety against the Mod 70, I cannot tell. Rugers are sturdy and well priced so they became quite popular here in SA.

The only criticism that I have seen against the Rugers are their non adjustable triggers, which are so hard on pulling, and then of course what Ganyana had to say about them in .... "Rifle Lessons Learned from the Zimbabwe Professional Hunter Proficiency Exam"

"Then we come to one that surprises me. Ruger. The early Ruger M77's with the non rotating claw extractors but still a push feed mechanism, in .458 Win could be relied upon to jam if the bolt was worked quickly. In the 1980's the National Parks culling teams found this out the hard way and the new Rugers were quickly disposed of or issued to stations where a heavy rifle was seldom required. The new MkII Ruger with a proper controlled feed seemed to be a vast improvement and were reputed to work a whole lot better and of course come at a top dollar price. I learned differently. All but one out of seven I've seen or handled this year (6 in .416 Rigby and one .458 Win) would not eject if the bolt was opened vigorously. Slow down just a fraction and they throw the empty case half way into the next province. For a client coming out to Africa this may be acceptable. Any really fast fancy shooting is going to be the PH's.

For the Professional Hunter or Guide though, a rifle that is guaranteed not to eject when worked at speed is a death sentence waiting to happen. The fault lies with the sprung loaded ejector that springs into place as the bolt is withdrawn. Work the bolt at a moderate speed and the ejector is in place to cleanly throw the case clear. Work the bolt fast and the ejector is still on its way up when the case passes over it. A few will work provided the ejector is scrupulously clean and well oiled but many will not do even that (and how do you keep it clean AND oiled in the usual dusty conditions?). A much stronger spring and a little polishing of the raceway that it fits into may cure the problem, but they are not safe as they come from the factory. A local gun shop tells me that they have sent two new rifles back this year because of this problem, and our local top gunsmith tells me that while most can be made to work perfectly, some cannot. Ruger needs to wake up, their No.1, single shot rifle is a far safer and more dependable weapon than their bolt action."

Warrior

All my hunting rifles are Rugers with the tang safety, because of the safety!!! It comes off as the gun comes up and gives you one less thing to focus on.

The Savage tang safety was touted, and functioned, as a three position safety with the same advantages as the Winchester. Even when Savage stopped calling their safety "three position" the guns still came with the same mechanism...probably some legal technicality involved. I don't know if the current ones still work that way.

John

i can see why people like it .. or a slide/side safety, like a timney ... though i prefer the 3 position safety, either a copy of winchester or the ruger.. the ruger safety makes more sense to me, as it
1:isn't on the bolt
2: blocks the trigger in position 2
3: blocks the bolt in position 3

but i've trained with these, therefore it doesn't make any difference to me, when hunting.

the ruger tang safety, if you ever take the gun apart, was a FRAIL kludge of desion, and I am glad it was deleted.

quote:

For the Professional Hunter or Guide though, a rifle that is guaranteed not to eject when worked at speed is a death sentence waiting to happen.

What he says +1.

Even more so in hunting two legged "dangerous game".

With the old Lee-Enfield No4 you could work the rounds through so fast that you could have a fired case still in the air as you were chambering the next round into the chamber.

I don't know what a kludge of desion is, but I have also heard that they don't block the bolt.

Now, I too love the tang position and dislike the model 70 style (or anything up there that high). I don't like the sliding side safety like is on the 700, but what I REALLY like that DOES block the firing pin.

1917 Enfields! Waaaa, it's like the ninja of safeties. sure it's ugly, but its great spot for working, and it really works. it's only draw back (at least on my 35 whelen which is a 1917 remington) is that if it isn't all the way back and you pull the trigger (I know, why would you? I'm just saying) it'll jump to fire and indeed fire.

The safety is my biggest love of the 1917. I wish I could afford more of them.

Red

Tang safties are the best that there are. And they can be made to offer all of the safety features that a mod70 3pos can.

It just takes a bit more effort to do it right. Rather than just putting it on the end of the bolt or as part of the trigger module.

The big gun makers just don't think its worth the effort.

But I am rather opinionated on the subject - my first rifle had a tang safety, and after getting used to it the various 3pos and side safties just feel slow, awkward, and more of a design expedient than what is best in the field.

FWIW I beleive Elmer Keith lobbied hard for the tang safty, primarily for the reasons that have been mention about the similarity to shotgun and express rifles. He thought them much more ergonomic. Personally I have never used one on a rifle being primarily a M-70 man but I have often wished that the 3-pos safety was on the left side of the bolt so I didnt have to change my grip so much.

I like the tang safety so much that I had Al Bieson put a custom stock om my M77 270 Win.

465H&H

I was so depressed when Ruger discontinued the tang safety that my next purchases were Browning A-bolts with tang safeties. Tang safeties are my favorite, remington style next (or timney triggers with safety) and lastly Win 3 position. I have never worried about the safety issue. Have been hunting for 45 years without a problem. Some of my dangerous game rifles have 3 position safeties but I am not enamored with them. I guess it is all in what you grow up with and get used to.

quote:

Originally posted by TwoZero:
Tang safties are the best that there are. And they can be made to offer all of the safety features that a mod70 3pos can.

It just takes a bit more effort to do it right. Rather than just putting it on the end of the bolt or as part of the trigger module.

The big gun makers just don't think its worth the effort.

Could you please elaborate on this? I'm sure that given the $$ most of the gunsmiths would fill any request they get from their customers. While I wouldn't spend a lot of money adding tang safeties to rifles, if a company could come up with a good solution to adding one to mausers for instance, I'd consider it as alternative to going to a mod 70 or buehler style. I have a burgess 2 pos mod 70 style on one action, I prefer 2 to 3 positions as I'm just not used to having the ability to unload a rifle with safety on so don't feel I need it, I think this was 150 bucks. if a tang safety were an option in a similar price range...

Red

The only problem, if you could call it a problem, with the tang Rugeris the shorter mag length...but as with all "problems" there are usually many very simple solutions, extant all the normal "expert" opinions.

As far as all the happy horse krap about which safety does what and because of that all the rest are mouse poop...anyone with an ounce of sense can see through those arguments.

I have a rack full of all the different brands of shooters and everyone of them seem to have a different type or location for the safety...plus shotguns, airguns, pistols and wheel guns. If you can't figure out how the many different safetys works you in deep doodoo.

If you want to do the best job with your tools DON'T have more than one brand of shooter, that way you won't get F***up trying to work the controls...but none of us stays in that ball part so that argument is moot also.

The one big problem is getting some parts...Ruger no longer supports the tang models and every time I call for a part I get a Not Available. I've ended up buying complete rifles just to mix and match.

I like my Tang models...I see no problem with the safety IF you tune it up a bit, but I've also had a couple of problems with the little spring not working right and keeping the safety from releasing...that only happened when I had two apart and got the springs installed on opposite actions.

If the spring hasn't been fiddled with or swapped, they keep on working...but as a mechanical part it don't matter WHAT type safety you have, they can malfunction. I don't care what anyone thinks or does...when I'm in the sh** I don't use a safety...period.

It's not that they're unpopular...it's they've been discontinued for a long time and people like new things...plus the snow job as far as a "winged" safety being "the thing".

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Could you please elaborate on this? I'm sure that given the $$ most of the gunsmiths would fill any request they get from their customers. While I wouldn't spend a lot of money adding tang safeties to rifles, if a company could come up with a good solution to adding one to mausers for instance, I'd consider it as alternative to going to a mod 70 or buehler style.

I think at one point EAW or recknagel offered a tang safety kit for mauser actions. But they do require proper gunsmith installation.

Unfortunately Tang safties are predominantly a custom thing for mauser style rifles. they require the inletting and fitting of new parts to the tang of a rifle. I know gunmaker Lon Paul has put tang safties on rifles which lock the bolt, and I ve seen a few custom mausers from germany on the net that had tang safety set ups.

Voere rifles still makes mausers with tang safties, but I've never seen one this side of the pond.

quote:

I have a burgess 2 pos mod 70 style on one action, I prefer 2 to 3 positions as I'm just not used to having the ability to unload a rifle with safety on so don't feel I need it,...

I agree.. the seciond postiton is of dubious utility. Is it really that hard to keep your finger away from the trigger when working the bolt??? Or is something wrong with your floorplate latch??? And if just working the action you are afraid of a round going off you need to throw that junk away and get a better rifle!

quote:

I think this was 150 bucks. if a tang safety were an option in a similar price range...
Red

I refer you to the wisdom of foobar:

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
It's not that they're unpopular...it's they've been discontinued for a long time and people like new things...plus the snow job as far as a "winged" safety being "the thing".

Luck

I'm in total agreement. The problem is Winchester has done a masterful job of touting its 3pos safety as "the thing". And the gunwriters have robotically extolled its virtues ad-nausium. This snow job has been going on for more than 60 years.

When you also consider the fact that a good tang safety would cost more from the factory... The question practically answers itself. I mean we are dealing with gun companies who brag about how long they have been making rifles, yet, they still can't seem to figure out how to properly bed a .375 and up rifles from the factory.

My Merkel KR1 has a tang safety with 3 pos, and I think Voere makes mausers with tang safties, but they also cost more than the magic $1000.00 mark that american gunmakers seem reluctant to cross to any great degree.


.

I prefer a bolt mounted safety regardless of cost and no one has brainwashed me. Simple and dependable and not cheap. If bolt mounted safeties were cheap then Remington would use them!

Winchester M70 got it right from day one and if you dont like that than dont buy it. Please lets not ruin a classic design.

I dont care if someone likes the tang safety thats cool with me. But all this conspiracy, cheapo mumbo-jumbo is nuts.

dogcat

quote:

Why is it not popular on big bores?

Because it's not the safest.

IMO, no one should be forced to load or unload a gun that is on the fire position....PERIOD!!!

Even the lowly Savage has a Tang safety that allows a third position for loading and unloading on the safe position!

It is the best.

Who says it isn't.

Other rifles don't adopt it for various reasons plus the stupidity of firearms mfgs...

Why didn't colt invest a tiny bit in an upgraded front sight, upgraded rear sight, and oversized thumb saftey and own the 1911 market for another 20 years...cause they are dumb...

My first sporter, and I think three or four of the few rifles I have now not only have a two position safety, they have no hinged magazine, so I have to unload them round by round cycling through, I have no problem with that.

I'll have to ask Lon about the conversion he does and if it is a kit/parts he gets from somewhere. There's a neat little 257 full length stocked (20" barrel) in the local shop and it has a tang safety. man it's easy to get to.

Red

Another vote for the M98 or M70 style safeties. Like Jeffe, that's I know and am familiar with.

Of the tang safeties I've had, the one I liked best is the rotary wheel on the Styer SBS. with its three positions and it takes the bolt out of battery on the third..

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I prefer a bolt mounted safety regardless of cost and no one has brainwashed me. Simple and dependable and not cheap. If bolt mounted safeties were cheap then Remington would use them!

Like I said, I am absolutely biased when it comes to tang safeties, in fact, my bias on this issue knows no bounds.

quote:

Winchester M70 got it right from day one and if you dont like that than dont buy it. Please lets not ruin a classic design.

I assure you, I have not and will not buy any! And the classic design is in no danger because I am in no position to influence FNchesters manufacturing process.

quote:

I dont care if someone likes the tang safety thats cool with me. But all this conspiracy, cheapo mumbo-jumbo is nuts.

It’s not a conspiracy. Winchester marketed the hell out of their 3pos safety, and it worked!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Why didn't colt invest a tiny bit in an upgraded front sight, upgraded rear sight, and oversized thumb saftey and own the 1911 market for another 20 years...cause they are dumb...

There is truth here... Kimber's rifle and pistol success stories are testament to that.

I do agree with Jeffe that the Tang safety is a bit of a kludge. Watch one work and see that little spring scrunch up, that rod wiggle and flex and envision some junk getting into the works.

No matter what ALL rifles and safeties are mechanical devices. When they work, all is great...but when they don't, you're SOL.

You need to learn how to use what you got and not have a brain phart when swapping around.

The BS about the Rem safety slipping off and the bolt getting pulled open by brush can happen to ANY wing safety also. If you don't think it can happen you haven't mucked about in heavy buck brush very much.

I think the OEM Mauser safety is the most safe...it would be very hard to have it get flipped the wrong way accidentally, but it is also slow to get unc**ted.

The best safety is an empty chamber and a brain in gear and practicing racking a round quickly and getting a round off accurately when needed.

All the rest of the arguments are whisky fumes around the armchair.

Luck

This is only my opinion but I think any safety on a bolt rifle that doesn't block the fireing pin is unsafe no matter where it is placed on the rifle, or how convenient it happens to be!

Ditto.

quote:

This is only my opinion but I think any safety on a bolt rifle that doesn't block the firing pin is unsafe no matter where it is placed on the rifle, or how convenient it happens to be!

double ditto

Had a 77 with the tang safety that rifle has a tight pistol grip and I did but pressure on the safety with the web of the hand when stalking. The safety never came off in my use but on two occasions when I passed it to colleagues they let the safety off - this was in the field when we swapped rifles to compare scopes, no harm was done but it damaged my faith on that rifle.
Happy with tang safety’s on shotguns etc, just poor ergonomics by Ruger on that rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

This is only my opinion but I think any safety on a bolt rifle that doesn't block the firing pin is unsafe no matter where it is placed on the rifle, or how convenient it happens to be!

double ditto

OK, now I'm genuinely curious...

So the vast majority of double and single shot rifles also have unsafe tang safeties? Right???

No. On a double the safety locks the hammers. Or they should. The tang location is as close and direct a safety as you can design on a double or pump.

Locking the internal hammer on a double is pretty much equivalent to locking the firing components inside the bolt of a bolt action.

I think, mounting a safety on the trigger guard of a double is pretty similar to tang mounting a safety on a bolt. Not the same, but too far away from the firing mechanism for my taste.

I suppose it might be an exaggeration to say tang safeties on a bolt are flat out unsafe, but I would think less reliable - IMHO.

quote:

Voere rifles still makes mausers with tang safties, but I've never seen one this side of the pond.

I saw this comment. i used, for a very short time a Voere in 375H&H last week. 2 Shots to be exact.

Gave it back to the owner and said get me the 20 year old Brno 602.

The Voere was the biggest heap of junk I have used in ages - didn't want to feed 2nd cartridge, clunky, NOT Smooth at all.

And yes, I did try the cases through the gun before I wnet out and I knew it was a bit clunky / sticky.

I'd use a Remington 700 push feed in 375H&H before using a Voere again !!! LOL

.

These days all my rifles have either a tang safety (krieghoff, Blaser Styre) or a left handed M70 safety - Dumolin, mauser etc...

Same as my shotgun and Krieghoff as near as I can manage which are what I shoot the most.