I have been thinking about this. Let me describe the idea I have here. I am hoping that in describing this idea somebody is going to point out that there is already something that is what I am talking about. I am going to use imaginary numbers so I don't have to go look them up.

Ok, So in a bolt gun the shell can't be longer than the magazine. So lets make our brass so long that it doesn't matter what size bullet is in there. The throat is the same for all bullet sizes because the brass is long to start with. Heavy bullets are seated deeper, light bullets are seated out more, throat is the same.
Next lets use a bullet caliber that has pistol and rifle bullets both. Off hand I know 45 handgun bullets can be had in 185gr. 458 win mag bullets can go to 500gr or so. Of course they are not quite the same diameter. I do know moulds could be made for 185gr. .458 bullets if it came to that. If the brass was long the light bullets would work just fine in the new longer .458 brass.
So, anyway, the idea would be the ability to shoot light bullets very fast, or heavy bullets as fast is needed. A 200gr lead bullet would make a good longer range small game round, the heavy bullet would work on bigger game.
So, what do you think? What am I missing here?

If I understood your question, you or leaving out the following:
1.Twist (stablization and accuracy). 2.Sectional density (penetration).
3.Ballistic coefficiency (maintaining velocity at useful distances).

All that aside, I have a Remington Model 7 in .358 Rem. Mag. that will shoot both 158 grain bullets designed for a .357 Magnum and 250 grain bullets quite well (albeit with almost a 800 fps difference in velocity). The bullet is quite short, and there is a big gap in the throat, but my particular rifle doesn't seem to mind.

On whitetails, using the 180 grain Nosler partitions (which were designed for the .357 at 1300 fps or so) loaded to 2900 fps results in quite an explosion of the front half of the bullet, but the rear holds together and penetration is complete on all but extreme quartering shots. Within 200 yards, the combination is about as much a "bang-flop" round as I've ever seen.

So... back to the inquiry..

Your idea will work, but the trick (as far as the lighter bullets) too light can cause problems. You could well end up with a rifle that was a "jack of all trades and master of none. There is always a compromise if you are trying to find a caliber that will shoot both heavy and light bullets that will stablize them, that have the internal integrity to hold together and which will work well on game.

.... and, I think that a 200 grain .458 bullet would not stablize in a rifle which had a suitable twist for a 500 grain bullet... or visa versa?

BTW, .45 pistol bullets (at least most, anyway) are .451 diameter, not .458".

If I remember correctly the 400 Tembo is an attempt to create that theoretical cartridge.

458 AR -
barnes makes 200gr 45/70 bullets and you can get 600gr jacketed bullets, and 550s from norma.

you'll find that shooting bigbore but light bullets is explosive..

so, take a 458 winmag .. shot rem 405s at any speed you like, and call it a day

I just looked up some info from barrel suppliers and it seems that the twist in many .458 Win Mag's is 1/14 to 1/16 and in .45 ACP, it is about the same thing. Twist might not be an issue, assuming you can find (or make) the lighter bullets. I'm afraid, however, to think what leading you'd get with cast bullets at 3000 fps???

Light bullets for long range? Ballistic coefficient and short bullets are mutually exclusive.

The 12GaFH can shoot bullets from 250gr through 1400gr. All seated to the same depth. All the bullets are the same length and diameter (.729), just drilled out or made of different metals ( lead, brass, copper, aluminum). Accuracy to 100yrds is the same although POI changes.
One thing I've learned is that large diameter bullets tend to be very tolerant of twist independent of length as long as its anywhere near what the Greenhill formula predicts.-Rob

I don't have enough medical insurance to shoot the 12GaFH.

One avenue that seems to be up the tree that is being barked is the carts that shoot the 500 S&W pistol bullets... 275 Barnes XPB to 700 grain Ranger Rick bullets loaded to the same oal.

There are a number of carts that will do this.

Michael458 has a few and there is the humble soon to be 500 KILL ALL in the pic below.

Or how about running a Lott reamer in a 458 win mag gun and use 200 to 600 grain 45-70 bullets?

Cheap as can be and meets your criteria.

quote:

Or how about running a Lott reamer in a 458 win mag gun and use 200 to 600 grain 45-70 bullets?

I don't understand what this does. I have no experience with the Lott cartridge.
And can somebody give me a direct link to the 200gr .458 bullets, apparently my search skills suck.

Thanks.

After re reading your post I think Jeffe got it right... Just get a 458 Winmag and shoot 45-70 bullets to reg rifle bullets

Either the 458 AR (if recoil isn't an issue) or a 35 caliber if it is. I think the 350 Remington Mag or the 358 Norma Mag are closer to your case/magazine/power spec than the 358 Win but it is still a fine round.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:

quote:

Or how about running a Lott reamer in a 458 win mag gun and use 200 to 600 grain 45-70 bullets?

I don't understand what this does. I have no experience with the Lott cartridge.
And can somebody give me a direct link to the 200gr .458 bullets, apparently my search skills suck.

Thanks.

here's down to 250s
http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...ts/rifle/tsx-bullet/

scroll down to .458

Neal loves to use 305gr custom bullets in his 458 AR.. nil recoil, wicked accurate