Looks like there is an original 505 Gibbs in the upcoming Rock Island Auction:

505 Gibbs

I had heard that very few originals were made, and have seen photos crop up here and there.

Does anybody here know the story of the origins of this round, and how many 505's were made by Gibbs over the years? Were other makers chambering rifles in this cartridge back in the pre-war days, or did that start later?

Very cool. Was the cartridge available in 1900?

About ten years later from what I've read, so they're off on the age estimate by at least a bit. If Gibbs started producing these around 1911, I wonder how long it took them to produce the original couple dozen rifles?

Original Gibbs in 505. In use daily in Moz or Zimbabwe.

Wow - is that one also coming up on one hundred years old? Impressive!

quote:

Originally posted by oldgold:
Looks like there is an original 505 Gibbs in the upcoming Rock Island Auction:

505 Gibbs

I had heard that very few originals were made, and have seen photos crop up here and there.

Does anybody here know the story of the origins of this round, and how many 505's were made by Gibbs over the years? Were other makers chambering rifles in this cartridge back in the pre-war days, or did that start later?

I have been told in my searchings that the Gibbs .505 was originally planned as a low pressure double rifle cartridge with a rim. As it would be very close to the already common .500 nitro express, he decided to change the design to a rimless case for bolt rifles.

I saw an original for sale in Anchorage many years ago and know two gents who own originals. I understand less than two dozen were produced, and as low as 18, but have no documentation of this.
Cal

The 505 Gibbs is a bit of a mystery.

I will explain:

The first 505 Gibbs rifle wears a Gibbs serial number of B 6413 ( a single square bridge magnum action)

This rifle was entered into the Gibbs ledgers in 2014.

Rumour has it that some 11 rifles were ordered at the time ?? but that they could not be produced because of Word War One. ( only one was finished by Gibbs's finishers prior to WW1)

Then there is rifle with Serial number B 6423 This gun was delivered in 1924.

Based on the Gibbs ledgers then only 9 other rifles ( all calibers) were built between these two rifles.

This rifle's Mauser action number puts action production in 1900 as per Speed.

So here is the mystery:

Rigby commissioned Mauser to build Magnum actions for their Big 416 circa 1911 or so it is claimed. The first two Rigby 416 rifles wore serial numbers 3917 and 3918 and were put up for sale in 1912

So we have to assume that the magnum Action came about at this time ? or did it ????

Actually the Magnum Action was designed for Rigby in 1899 for their 400/350

So where and how does a Magnum action come about in 1900 that was supplied to Gibbs by Rigby used in a Rifle produced for Gibbs in 1924..... 11 years before Rigby's 416 ?

And only 52 rifles were finished for Gibbs

According to the Mauser book by Jon Speed, Mauser made magnum actions to fit individual cartridges. The 350 was the first magnum one and they ran only up to the #20 size action, which was made for the 416 Rigby.
According to Speed and Les Womack, Gibbs modified that action for their larger .505 and it barely fit. Speed states that "less than 100 .505 rifles were ever made up by Gibbs."

Huh!

Cal, sounds like Gibbs was planning on making a 'modern' 577-500 NE - fascinating?

Alf, was Gibbs just producing 505's at such a low rate that their mag. actions were lying around for a couple of decades?

Do folks usually mark the cutoff for when original Gibbs 505's ended at the sale of the company in the 50s?

Interesting history!

Interesting info Alf. So was Gibs not a successful gun maker and only saved by the luck of Hemingway using his cartridge?

Perspective is important: The early world of big bore guns was one of finite numbers.

For Mauser and it's users there was a number one and a number last and only some 200,000 units in-between. These units were dispersed between the various makers who used Mausers actions and barrels. Each having a market share of varying proportion again a finite number, a number one and number last.

Like a pyramid the pinnacle was likely the big bores, the bigger the caliber the less numerous the representative guns built on them.

Equally finite were those who hunted and all that hunted certainly did not use big bores. Again a pyramid distribution.


Taking my own 500 Jeffery as example: I have the ledger records of the gun and could trace it from production at Mauser, its delivery to Jeffery in May of 1928 then finding its way to Abercrombie and Fitch in New York, only to sit there for years then on to Griffin and Howe ( affiliated to A&F ) then finally sold to a hunter who used it up in Canada.

Yes, quite right as you well know. The small numbers of original big bores is not in relation to their great legend. This adds quite a lot to their value. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I find the 400/350 bolt action quite interesting. I wonder, has anyone tried making a modern 400/350 rimless?

The Gibbs offered by Rock Island looks authentic to me, much like the one pictured by Flipper and two others I've seen. If the results of recent auctions held by James Julia of original 416s are any indication, the estimates on this rifle are low.

I agree. Shame about the scope mount!

It's funny. The Jr size rifle in the pic next to the Gibbs is a Model 70 in 458 Lott. On the scene of a successful one shot elephant kill. I felt like such a woman.