The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Jim Shockey says the .375 H&H is a poor choice for DGGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
Have been binge watching Jim Shockey's show - "Shock Therapy". He had Corey Knowlton on and both said the the .375 H&H is a "crap cartridge for dangerous game". Horror of horrors!!!! A noted TV guy, and advocate of many products that he is paid to like - goes off and says this.... Tell me, please tell me, he is not right or is right!!!! If it is true, I will have to sell a stable full of .375's and buy something bigger that I cannot shoot so well.... PS Most of the "professionals" never ever say anything negative about a caliber or a product. I was "shocked" by Shockey. | ||
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Shockley is an overpaid POS ignorant TV Celebrity, I won't endorse or watch any of his crap TV shows ...the 375 H&H is still one of the finest big game cartridges ever made .. DRSS Chapuis 9.3 x 74 R RSM. 416 Rigby RSM 375 H&H | |||
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I disagree. The 375H&H is a great buffalo caliber.... . | |||
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A round that has been proven over a hundred years. Probably up there with the 30-30 and 30-06 with most game killed of any kind. I do not know what could be wrong with it. I wonder what he is being paid to sell in its place? | |||
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Yeah, a .50 cal TC muzzleloader is such a better choice. | |||
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My opinion: I personally prefer the .404 Jeffery, because that's what I grew up with. But. If I was a paying hunter, able to choose and take my time with my first shot the .375 is just about the ideal caliber. Especially in situations where I might not know what range I would have to shoot and if large non-DG game like Eland, Giraffe and Hippo are also on the menu. if I was a PH having to back up the paid hunter (and thus likely to have to handle wounded DG on a somewhat-regular basis) I would want something heavier. | |||
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He probably got paid to say that! I don’t listen to idiots any more. I learn from my own experiences! The 375 is too big! If I wasn’t forced to use that caliber I would gladly use my 30/404 for everything! | |||
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I don't know which is worse, listening to him talk or watching him talk. I try to tolerate it if I see he's in Africa, but 97% of the time with the mute setting on.......and still cant take much of it. DRSS | |||
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Yes, and powered by "Shockey's Gold" sugar powder ...  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Gun writers have to write. You tubers have to talk. Most of it is like listen to your wife. BAH BAH BAH BAH ect. | |||
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Don't castigate those with opinions different from yours. Shockey's statement will not cause me to get rid of my 375 even though I know my 416 hits harder. This is the stuff that makes campfire discussions that I dearly love. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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. . . did Corey cry during the show? Mike | |||
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What’s the context here? | |||
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Started to when he was looking at footage of his Nepal hunt.... He is a bit of an actor. Did not seem to engaged or want to be on Shock Therapy. Seemed he and Jim had something going on that was unspoken. Not unlike when Shockey had his son on the show. A bit of tension in the air... | |||
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The 350 legend would be a better choice.  --------------------------------- We unfortunately will vote our way into socialism. The end result will be having to shoot our way out of it. | |||
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My two cents and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it. While adequate, I don't think the .375 is ideal for buffalo. Shockey's a class act. I've been talking with African outfitters at the same time as Shockey and while it was painful because it took so much time, every time a kid came by and wanted an autograph, he gave it to them and posed for pictures with them. Truly a nice guy. | |||
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And yet so many DG critters continue to be killed with one. Why is a 300 grain mono no enough if well placed? | |||
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Media psychologists learned long ago that contrary statements gather attention; hence, why so many TV panelist and youtube programs are designed to annoy and enflame and why so many people become "addicted" to watching clips and shows regarding the opinions they disagree with. You would think it is the opposite but just consider how both liberals and conservatives love talking about what the other side said. Media personalities make money by attracting "eye balls" and they don't care whether the eye balls like them or not. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Clicks or eyeballs, you are the product - the "influencer's" job is to get you to click - in other words, you are the product opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The 375 is as good as any other caliber if one can shoot...The 600 is crap if you cannot shoot. Ive shot enough DG with the 375 to be satisfied with it, Ive never seen much difference in the 375 and my bigger bores. The end results has always been the same.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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But I bet he thinks the .375 Ruger is just fine. It’s all about revenue. It worked… how many folks read and responded here? The .375 is certainly adequate. The .577’s certainly can fail. The whole bit is getting a bullet to the right place. While I think the .416’s are my preferred buffalo round, it’s certainly not because I think I’d die if I used the .375. | |||
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For a guy that luvs to expound on all matter of hunting history to both willing and captive audiences and all the while including carefully centered product placements in his videos he unfortunately earned an 'F' grade regarding .375 H&H history. Don't know if it's due to sheer ignorance or bigoty. I suspect the former... | |||
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No idea who JS is, but my goal, set at age 8, was to kill a Cape buffalo with a 375. (Or anything else). | |||
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This is the way of the outdoor sports. Product placement is a hidden persuader. --------------------------------- We unfortunately will vote our way into socialism. The end result will be having to shoot our way out of it. | |||
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The claim that the 375 H&H is a poor choice for dangerous game is objectively false. The history of the caliber and scores of dangerous game taken with the 375 H&H confirms its status as an effective dangerous game choice. While I certainly understand why many prefer a larger caliber and the merits of a larger caliber choice for certain game, that does not make the 375 H&H a poor choice or inadequate. "The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching". - John Wooden | |||
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| Moderator |
i expect those that deride the 375 (almost all variants) haven't bothered to learn how to handle what little recoil there is therein - or have just barely managed to handle the recoil of a 458winmag and want to sneer down -- While I might not be happy with a 375 hh at long distance gopher shooting - there's very few cases where i would put myself that i wouldn't be satisfied with any number of 375 rifles - and in the cases that i wouldn't be thrilled with a 375, frankly, a recoilless rifle wouldn't make me feel much better. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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It is truly bizarre that anyone would say anything as demonstrably false as that. Give me a break!  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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See the Chernin Group-financed Meateater company. They are aiming to be a $100 million company. Generate interest in an activity, then offer the goods needed to participate in that activity. Lather, rinse, repeat. | |||
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And yet here we are posting about JS. Meh.. --------------------------------- We unfortunately will vote our way into socialism. The end result will be having to shoot our way out of it. | |||
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| one of us |
Folks, If I remember correctly Corey and Jim were hunting buffalo in New Guinea and Corey had a problem with a buffalo when using a borrowed 375. Perhaps that is what gave them that negative opinion of the 375 H&H. As for Shockey he's one of the very few outdoor pros that I'll watch. Nobody can deny that he's been there, done that and got the tee shirt many times. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
You shoot enough DG, you have issues. I’ve had a failure with the .416, and I’ve had a bad shot cost me with it. I’ve had bad results with the .375 once too. It isn’t the cartridge. It’s the bullet, the individual round, bullet placement, and some luck. Mr. Shockey either does or should know that. His badmouthing a popular round that has a very admirable track record is either stupidity or a calculated decision for purposes of ratings. I don’t think Jim is a dumb guy. | |||
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| new member |
From professional hunter Fritz Rabe: I have been hunting dangerous game now for 20 years. I guide +- 20 Buffalo, 8 Elephant, 5 Leopard, 3-5 Lion and many Hippo every year and whenever a client arrives with a .375H&H I smile a happy smile. When they unpack anything in .40 caliber I smile, when they offload anything bigger, I immediately give my chief tracker a .375H&H to carry with him. My late father was a culling officer in the Kruger National Park and culled thousands of Jumbo. He once showed me just why a .375H&H is such a formidable weapon. He told me that even if you miss your initial target (heaven forbids) then it has so much penetration that it will go on and destroy another vital organ behind like a kidney or spine etc. That is something that the big guns cannot do. Everyone is concerned about the "charge". That happens 99% of the time because your first shot was misplaced and now you want to hit an even smaller target while the animal is moving. What happens more often is that the animal will turn and run. Shoot at it with a .375 and you will get the bullet to the front of the animal where it can do its job. The big guns just do not have that. I myself have a .500 Double that is slowly gathering dust because I use my .416Rem for just about everything. If I have my .375 in my hands I shall do any job required because I practice marksmanship in field conditions every week. Just my humble opinion. *PS. I love the big guns just because they feel great when I shoot them. Not because they have one or the other advantage that you need because of bad shooting. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting Posts: 217 | Location: Musina South Africa | Registered: 08 December 2011 | |||
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Such have been similar words spoken of the vaunted 9.3x62. | |||
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Would a 416 Rigby not give similar or even better penetration ? | |||
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Probably the 416s give better penetration. The 416s give more however you quantify it killing power. The point is according to the above post is the 375 HH gives more than sufficient penetration bullets being unspecified. The 416s with 100 grains more bullet and near equal velo are going to have more mass that wants to keep in motion, and momentum. Did Mr. Corey in that buffalo show bullet entrance and exit, look at the damage wound path, etc. or did he use a junk bullet or make a bad shot? I remember that episode. Cory and Shockey used borrowed, rented Mosel 700s in that episode. I have a mental image of them both having trouble with the rifle itself. If you told me, “Joshua, we are going to Mozambique to those big swamps to hunt buffalo.” I am taking my 358 STA. If you said, “Joshua, we are going to Mozambique to the Niassa to hunt buffalo.” I would have a decision. I would lean toward my 500 double assuming shots would be close in thick cover. However, I use to do all my hunting w open sights. I had to pass a lot of close shots in thick cover that w a scoped rifle, I would have been able to find a gap. Add to that, shots are going to be against a black animal in shadow. The price of that open sighted double in such conditions may be a bad shot making the second barrel necessary. Finally, you just never know when you need to shoot 75 plus yards. I am not doing that w an open sighted double on a buffalo. I just might take my 358 STA w a 2x6 power illuminated reticle scope. The last I looked the 358 STA was legal in Mozambique. If someone wants to argue a .358 bullet with 270-310 grains of good bullet, at 2700-2850 fps is less than a 375 bullet with 270-300 grains of good bullet at 2500-2650 fps, or ant cartridge using a 9.3 mm bullet is there business. Insert, 375 HH cartridge for the above, or a better 416. The fact we can quantify the 416s are better does not make the 375 HH class of cartridge (270-300 grains at 2450-2600 fps) bad, unsafe, not viable. In a lot of ways that class of cartridges are more desirable for more situations that an open sighted 458 or an open double. The issue is for the one situation a big bore double is better. It is really far superior and ultimate. That is the some chance you get charged given you a chance, a chance to save your life w a second trigger and barrel. The above post merely point out it is better to shoot that 375 and kill it, then to use that open sighted big bore and make that situation that much more likely. The 416 cartridge class are better. No one is or would dispute that. What we are disputing is a guy who made himself famous shooting everything from Polar Bears to Elephants with a .50 caliber Muzzleloader telling us the .375 HH class of cartridges is a horrible choice. Shockey when he did step up to a 458 Win (at least on tv) used an overworked cheap, TC sponsor bolt action rifle. This was before finally getting sponsorship from Nosler when he started using a Howa, push feed, worked over 458. The push feed vs. controlled round feed not withstanding, the Howa is a good action. The point is I cannot take his opinions seriously. The 375 HH class of cartridges were a fine choice for Harry Manners who got excellent penetration on body shots on elephant. It is good choice for anyone, and for most better than something bigger especially w open sights. I feel I belong to the most. Yes, medium bores are my favorite class of cartridges. Mo, I have not killed any and not 1/100000 the game, let alone dangerous game, Shockey has. That for this discussion is irrelevant. Why? because here we have someone more qualified than Shockey explaining to us why the 375 class is just fine. In addition, Shockey made a career, he admitted it once, that he used a sub par weapon (muzzleliader) to get and become famous; ie more rich. His opinion is suspect to me. Now, in the Solid Bullet of the Future thread one fly in the buttermilk was the 375 HH and lessor calibers did not have enough surface area to benefit from a wide flat point, large caliber built for penetration. That study showed larger calibers w flat points given better penetration than other bullet designs. I believe it translated to animals. Those who have used them does as well. Thus, we can eliminate the penetration advantage the 375 HH class and 416 class has by using better bullets in our large bores. Most, even dedicated Safari hunters, appear to not take this advantage. My double .500 would be loaded w such a bullet in right barrel if hunting buffalo and both barrels if hunting elephant. | |||
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| one of us |
I used and loved the 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys, hated the 505 IMP, preferred the 450-400-3" doubles, after 30 years of Africa I was am of the opinion that I could never tell any real difference in the any of them and my 375 and 9,3x62..However it just has to be doesn't it?? Hmmm! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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You know what they say about opinions. Its hard to dispute the 375's track record, it just strikes a nice balance. Its been killing DG longer than Shockey has. Maybe thats his problem. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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Couldn't of said it better. When I read reviews of people who paid to hunt with him and what they endured makes me sick to my stomach. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Now now........ Res ipsa loquitor.......  Sorry couldn't resist. But the 3-7-5 is absolutely perfect for buff.....  Doesn't matter what anyone else says, no matter whom. Do as you like. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Jim Shockey says the .375 H&H is a poor choice for DG
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