i have been reading forums here on both of these calibers and would like any info you guys have one them. are they like the lott??

......They are modern day old fashion cartridges like the 460 Whetherby ..They are based on the 416 Rigby case .. they generally require a true Magnum size action ........I,de rather have a 460 Whby .....They don,t have a belt to head space on so its just another thing to worry about when reloading ........A lot of people go GA GA over belt less cartridges and so they have gained a small following ,,,,But it,s a total crap shoot as to wether you could find ammo for either in Anchorage ... But you can usually find 460 Whby ammo in several stores ..,Fairbanks ,Juneau ,.,and sometimes the smaller comunities up here ....

or the 458 ar?
shortened and improved 375 RUM... cheap cheap cases, easy to make, and if you need more firepower, it needs to have wheels and a transit

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=159107957#159107957

I owned a 450 Dakota some years ago and I've twice thought of building 450 Rigby. Other than gaining some velocity without the chamber pressures the 458 Lott will do the same thing on a smaller action, ammo is 90% cheeper and you can find it in Alaska and in most if not all hunting destinations in Africa.

I have a 450 dakota and a 458 Lott. I like the Dakota because the power out to 6750 ft.lbs is there if you want or need it. I have shot full house loads for 3 tears and alway had good luck with it. You can always load down to the Lott if you want too. The 450 dakota ammo is more expensive if you don't reload.

No they are not like a Lott! There is no significant difference between the two. I believe the 450 Dakota is "cheaper" to reload for. They will beat the Lott by at least 100 fps at equal chamber pressures. My choice would be the 460 Weatherby as it is the "cheapest" of the three (450 Dakota, Rigby, & Weatherby that is).

By the way, the 450 Dakota and 460 Weatherby are NOT based on a Rigby case (they have a head diameter 0.007" smaller). The 450 Rigby is based on the 416 Rigby case (albeit "improved").

In discussions like this I always find myself asking ... how much is enough? Do I really need >6000 lb-ft of energy?

I gotta admit that I wonder if it takes something genuinely more energetic than a Lott or a .458 AR ... do I want to be hunted by it?

The .458 AR is kinda that middle ground without getting into magnum actions and huge power and recoil levels.

Well if you decide on the superior 450 Dakota.. I just saw some custom Redding dies in the classifieds.

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Mike!!

You are two days late here, but still in time for Christmas if he hurries!!

Pick up a CZ in 458 Lott for about $800, and hit it with the Rigby chambering reamer...extra 150+fps gain and definitely a more classic cartridge.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

YZM

I am having Stuart Satterlee make me a 450 Rigby. I would not consider a 450 Dakota even though the Rigby and Dakota are twins. The Dakota is properitary and the Rigby is well known in Africa. Go with the Rigby, it will always fetch a higher dollar than the Dakota.

Here is a link to a article on the 450 Rigby.

450 Rigby

Umm, I don't think so. The Rigby's an even rarer bird than the 450 Dakota and brass costs twice as much. I did a lot of research as to caliber selection between the Rigby and Dakota and I chose the Dakota because my rifle's being built here in the States by a US gunmaker. No question the Rigby has more "panache" though. Ballisitcally they are twins. jorge

jorge,

just curious, is there an issue with the Dakota being a proprietary cartridge and the same sort of problems with chambering for other "patented designs"?


Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Here is a link to an article I wrote for the Magnum magazine concerning the Rigby. Since then, it has seen a lot of field use, in fact I just refinished it for a second time.

http://www.huntingsafaris.net/pdf/reloadingtherigby450rimless.pdf

I love it, and would not trade it for 2 Weatherbys... I currently use 550gr Woodleigh solids in it and 550gr Rhino softs, both at about 2280ft/sec.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
By the way, the 450 Dakota and 460 Weatherby are NOT based on a Rigby case (they have a head diameter 0.007" smaller). The 450 Rigby is based on the 416 Rigby case (albeit "improved").

just to clarify those statements for you

dakota claims it is based off the rigby ...
http://www.dakotaarms.com/dakota_cartridges.html

ole roy made his case by scraping a belt into rigby cases, which is why, i tell ya, why, there's "missing" material on sides of the big webby case, and its in the belt ... oh, and for some god forsaken reason, he rebated the rim

450 rigby ain't improved, son, its a straight necked up job. see the pdf referred to here written by Karl.

Jeff,

The Dakota has the same dimensions of base and shoulder as a 460 Weatherby, correct? Therefore, since the Weatherby has a reduced base diameter as compared to the 416 Rigby the 450 Dakota cannot be a necked up 416 Rigby with an improved shoulder.

The information I have, and I trust, is that the 450 Rigby has a shoulder diameter of .570" with the standard 416 Rigby base diameter. Therefore, my previous comment about the 450 Rigby being and "improved" Rigby case.

This is all academic as there is no significant difference in the ballistic capabilities of all three of these cartridges (450 Dakota, 450 Rigby, and 460 Weatherby).

I don't know the answer to that question. Perhaps one of our knowledgeable forumites can proffer an answer. All I know is that Hein just has the reamer for it to Dakota specs. jorge

I have a .450 Dakota and love it. I wouldn't trade it for a Weatherby and its unneeded belt as it's much better to headspace on the shoulder anyway.

It has a lot more more juice than a Lott if you need it and with less pressure. I can easily get 2525fps with 450 TSXs and with no pressure signs and MOA accuracy, in other words a mild load. My rifle is a Hein and weighs about 11 1/2 lbs with 2 mercury sticks and rings and scope. With the aforementioned load felt recoil is about like my buddy's stock lighter weight CZ550 .458 Win Mag shooting the same bullet at about 2,150fps.

Cheers,
Andy

Well I own the 458 Lott and that rifle will do whatever I want to do. With Ft LBs to spare.

My take on dimensions:

450 Dakota is like a 460 Wby with the belt turned off, and very similar body taper:
base: .582"
rim: .582"
shoulder: .560"
shoulder angle: 30-degrees
case length max: 2.9000"
head to shoulder: 2.3240"
head to neck: 2.4000"

450 Rigby Rimless is like a .416 Rigby necked up and blown out to less body taper.
base .589"
rim .590"
shoulder .570"
shoulder angle 40*2'30"
case length max: 2.8937"
head to shoulder: 2.3425"
head to neck: 2.4016"

Beware the various listings of dimensions, here and there. The above are the best concensus.

Brass as manufactured may be .002" to .005" smaller than the MAX base and rim dimensions above, whether Norma Rigby or whatever.

.416 Rigby brass can be sized down to work in a 450 Dakota. The bolt face of the action will probably have enough slop to take the rim that may be a few thou bigger than the factory brass.
But for serious work this should be thoroughly checked out for fit and function of the rim in the bolt face, or just stick with the factory brass ... which Jorge and I have both stockpiled.

The 450 Dakota with its 30* shoulder and adequate body taper is a slick feeder.

..........But ,,, here,s a ?? Has anyone that uses it of been around it ever had the 460 Whby ,cartridge fail ....???????????? ..

When all is said I think it comes down to personal preference. I could have picked the Dakota but having a 416 and 450 Rigby just made sense for me.

BTW I came across this article and found it having pretty good synopsis on DGR calibers.

DGR calibers

The 460 Weatherby fails only when the bullet is the wrong type for the job or when the marksman is a poor shottist, but none of that has the 460 Weatherby cartridge to blame ... so, the answer to gumboot458's question can only be "no" ... though I once shot a water buffalo in the boiler room (at 50 yards distance) with a factory 460Wby 500grRNSN, and it just stood there bleeding from the nose until I shot it in the neck with a .375/300gr Swift at 2535 fps from my H&H handed to me by my trusty gunbearer "Lemuel."

quote:

Originally posted by FAST996:
When all is said I think it comes down to personal preference. I could have picked the Dakota but having a 416 and 450 Rigby just made sense for me.

BTW I came across this article and found it having pretty good synopsis on DGR calibers.

DGR calibers

I liked that article, thanks for posting it. The website is kind of funky however, I had to copy and paste it into Wordperfect in order to read it.

Cheers,
Andy