Well, I have the itch for a new rifle in .585 caliber range. I cannot afford a .577 NE double. I am thinking about the .585 AHR or .577 T-Rex. The companies seem to be financially stable. My concern is a reliable supply of reloading components. This rifle will not be going to Africa, just a shooter. I live in Kalifornia with a .60 caliber limit. Any advice?

Not sure about stability of A-square. I had called many times for the purpose of ordering a t-rex, and no-one ever even picked up the phone, and then, I started getting the message that the number was no longer in use.
Finally said "to h### with all of it.
Of the two, however, I would personally go with the .585AHR. These guys know what they are doing, and they do it very well, and customer service is top notch. I have never bought from them-"yet", but just through finding things out, I was very impressed.
Aside from that, there is another: the .585 that Hubel has invented, which, as a cartridge, looks awesome.
If a reliable supply of reloading components is a major issue for you, perhaps you should go with the .577 3" in a falling block rifle.
Trust me on this, as I've had a .577 double "in my possession-did not own it", but used it a bit, and there is nothing "out-dated" about it.
With the other more modern rounds, you will probably find yourself loading them down to the old .577 3" velocities anyway to be more comfortable. It worked then, and it works now.

Tongo

Received my 585 AHR from Americam Hunting Rifles a few weeks ago, GMA action-really good stocking. Actually only a necked down 600 OK case, Robgunbuilder's invention. Cartridge cases are available from AHR or JI, bullets from Woodleigh, dies from C-H, and trim die, if needed might be special order.

I assume you are looking for a magazine rifle instead of a double. Call Ed and talk to him. Or go all the way and get the 600 OK, you can't go wrong with that.

Dak

quote:

Originally posted by dakota45056:
Tongo

Or go all the way and get the 600 OK, you can't go wrong with that.

Dak

He has a .60 cal. limit.
The lawmakers who are illiterate and can't read a single line from the Constitution and made this illegal law don't know bullets that well. The .600 bullet is .620, so it's over top.

There is a new 585/577 to be had...based on the gibbs case see pic below.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/523103917/p/1

Tongo,

see Boomstick's thread. This will be a 577BME, Belted Magnum Express you can afford to buy brass for. Plenty available for $2.50 or so per case. I'll be posting the load work here in 4-6 weeks if all goes well.

Rich
DRSS

a smith in northern California made KennethI's 577trex.

he also makes a custom 606mammoth (.599 i believe) which recently took an elephant (see one of the African threads, don't know which offhand)

get in touch with KennethI for more details. Cost about 4k for rifle, dies, and some loaded ammo, IIRC

Ed, at AHR, is also making a 700 AHR. The actual bullet diameter is .685". it will have about 200 ft/sec on the 700 nitro with a 1000 grain bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Tongo,

see Boomstick's thread. This will be a 577BME, Belted Magnum Express you can afford to buy brass for. Plenty available for $2.50 or so per case. I'll be posting the load work here in 4-6 weeks if all goes well.

Rich
DRSS

I would build this one!

It was planned, from the get-go, as a simple, inexpensive, easy to build DGR.

Rich
DRSS

Rich, are modifications needed to a 505Gibbs staggered mag well due to the belt on the 577BME? Would be nice to maintain 3 or possibly 4 down in a staggered configuration. Thanks, Rodney.

I just came from reading the California State Attorney Generals website re: caliber restrictions. The law is listed under destructive devices, chapter 2.5-12301.3. It says that a destructive device ( which is prohibited ) "is any firearm with a caliber greater than .60". Caliber equals bore size. Bore size on a 600 OK equals .60. It is not greater than. The bullet may be .620 but the law does not state bullet size, only bore size. Do we have any Ca. attorneys out there who can verify?
I don't live there anymore ( thank the lord ).

Rodney,

I do not think so. The belt is the same .634-.636" as the body size of the Gibbs. Ed only swaged the belt at body diameter. The body is reduced by about .012-.015". I will not be able to say for sure until the brass he made me gets here and I get the barrel on and chambered, etc.

Rich
DRSS

I would also look long and hard on the .550 Magnum. A lot easier to make, .460WM opened up to .550. A bit smaller, but "in the range".

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
I would also look long and hard on the .550 Magnum. A lot easier to make, .460WM opened up to .550. A bit smaller, but "in the range".

I agree.
The slight rebate on the 460 WBY case necked out to .550-straight-cased form is workable.

A revision of the case to a unique new form with NO REBATE AT ALL (.604" belt and .604" rim instead of .579" rim) would further perfect the case.

Any existing .550 Magnum Rifles could easily have their bolt faces opened up for .604" rim if that brass ever became available.

Add a new shell holder to the die set:

".550 Magnum Rebateless."

RIP makes a valid point here, perhaps even a better design...but, and there is always that "but" it would require more machine work ($$$)and I am not sure where the bolt diameter of a P14 maxes out.

Build either my 550 Gibbs or the 577BME. These two are blue collar blasters, and Boomstick and Ed Hubel and I went from day one with that in mind. Buy a P14/17 or M30 for a couple hundred dollars, if need be buy a stripped P14 bolt for a twenty-dollar bill from Numrich and get started. A nice laminated or walnut or synthetic stock and a barrel and set your gunsmith to work. Flip the end caps on the magazine box and you can load to 3.65+". The 550 is designed around a 700 or so grain bullet at 2200fps, at moderate pressure. The original 577NE 3" is a 750gr bullet at 2050 advertised velocity. We think perhaps an 850-875gr bullet at the same MV, or maybe 2100fps target...again at very moderate pressures. Velocity fans can "crank 'er up..." to try and achieve 585 T-Rex velocities, but ours will be a much more pleasant experience, and nobody ever said the 577NE was anemic.

One of either flavor could be built, with a bit of shopping around for $1200 or a bit more. What else can I say.

Rich
DRSS
facilitator

there are plenty of good 577 bullets to be had and barrels have more sources.

corrected

quote:

you can neck up the 465 h+h for an unrebated 500 a2 or 500 h+h

I didn't know the 465 h&h was that large...

What's the case capacity compared to the 460 WBY or 500 ASQ?

corrected

boom stick,

The drawing of the 465 H&H would indicate that the rim, belt and start of the case body is like the 378 case and hence it is a rebated case when the rim diameter is compared to the belt diameter.

trophyhunter5000, the 465 H&H compared to the 378 or 460 case would be similar to comparing the 375 H&H to the 375 Wby or other versions of the 375 Improved.

Mike

Damn...i missed that. thanks for the correction

Thanks Rich and Bent, all the 550's and 577BME really will be affordalble. Was thinking maybe a 550 on an enfield or CZ about December and the 577BME on the "PH" next spring. WOW I really need to get moving on these! Rodney.

577 B.M.E. on the P.H. is gunna be cool!

Hey Boomstick, how many 577BME's do you think will fit into the mag well of the "PH" properly fitted of course? Just courious. Rodney.

I would call M.R.C. and ask them how many gibs rounds will fit...I will call on Monday

quote:

Originally posted by dakota45056:
Tongo

Received my 585 AHR from Americam Hunting Rifles a few weeks ago, GMA action-really good stocking. Actually only a necked down 600 OK case, Robgunbuilder's invention. Cartridge cases are available from AHR or JI, bullets from Woodleigh, dies from C-H, and trim die, if needed might be special order.

I assume you are looking for a magazine rifle instead of a double. Call Ed and talk to him. Or go all the way and get the 600 OK, you can't go wrong with that.

Dak

Dak,
Tell me how you like that 585 AHR. It is on my short list of "next" rifles. I already know that Wayne, Ed and crew produce the finest rifles I have held in my hands, but am interested in your impressions of the cartridge and its shootability.

There is a certain pig hunt that I might take my dad to and I understand that there is a minimum caliber requirement by the organizers. He needs something less scary than the 600 but still meet their minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by dakota45056:
Tongo

Received my 585 AHR from Americam Hunting Rifles a few weeks ago, GMA action-really good stocking. Actually only a necked down 600 OK case, Robgunbuilder's invention. Cartridge cases are available from AHR or JI, bullets from Woodleigh, dies from C-H, and trim die, if needed might be special order.

I assume you are looking for a magazine rifle instead of a double. Call Ed and talk to him. Or go all the way and get the 600 OK, you can't go wrong with that.

Dak

Dak,
Tell me how you like that 585 AHR. It is on my short list of "next" rifles. I already know that Wayne, Ed and crew produce the finest rifles I have held in my hands, but am interested in your impressions of the cartridge and its shootability.

There is a certain pig hunt that I might take my dad to and I understand that there is a minimum caliber requirement by the organizers. He needs something less scary than the 600 but still meet their minimum.

Paul
You thinking of trying out that new 600 on one of these up in the U P?

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Dak,
Tell me how you like that 585 AHR. It is on my short list of "next" rifles. I already know that Wayne, Ed and crew produce the finest rifles I have held in my hands, but am interested in your impressions of the cartridge and its shootability.

There is a certain pig hunt that I might take my dad to and I understand that there is a minimum caliber requirement by the organizers. He needs something less scary than the 600 but still meet their minimum.

Paul
You thinking of trying out that new 600 on one of these up in the U P?

EXACTLY !!!
Now I need something for my dad and as I said, the organizers of the hunt have a minimum caliber requirement - you might actually know these guys - and he doesn't have a rifle that meets that minimum. Soooo .... 585AHR , 585HE and 577BME are all on the table as options.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Dak,
Tell me how you like that 585 AHR. It is on my short list of "next" rifles. I already know that Wayne, Ed and crew produce the finest rifles I have held in my hands, but am interested in your impressions of the cartridge and its shootability.

There is a certain pig hunt that I might take my dad to and I understand that there is a minimum caliber requirement by the organizers. He needs something less scary than the 600 but still meet their minimum.

Paul
You thinking of trying out that new 600 on one of these up in the U P?

EXACTLY !!!
Now I need something for my dad and as I said, the organizers of the hunt have a minimum caliber requirement - you might actually know these guys - and he doesn't have a rifle that meets that minimum. Soooo .... 585AHR , 585HE and 577BME are all on the table as options.

Yey I think the 585 AHR would make a great varmint rig

Big bores for hog hunts. 585 Choices.

Trex--- No one answers the phone, I don't think they
know what the internet is, or who we are, here.

AHR--- They definately answer the phone, make beautiful guns,
but they are way too high for me and others.

So consider my 585BHE-- Use any gun that takes 505, like CZ,
Ruger, Enfield, the PH coming out, Granite MTN, etc.
I will have a bunch of reamers in week, have cases to get
you started, have tested the cartridge with over 15 powders,
different bullet weights for almost two years.It will put
a 750 gr out at 1700 to over 2700. I have less than 500
bucks in my 585BHE Enfield, doing my own work.If I used
a PH, I'd have 600 bucks more....Oh, and I answer the phone
and emails...Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Big bores for hog hunts. 585 Choices.

Trex--- No one answers the phone, I don't think they
know what the internet is, or who we are, here.

AHR--- They definately answer the phone, make beautiful guns,
but they are way too high for me and others.

So consider my 585BHE-- Use any gun that takes 505, like CZ,
Ruger, Enfield, the PH coming out, Granite MTN, etc.
I will have a bunch of reamers in week, have cases to get
you started, have tested the cartridge with over 15 powders,
different bullet weights for almost two years.It will put
a 750 gr out at 1700 to over 2700. I have less than 500
bucks in my 585BHE Enfield, doing my own work.If I used
a PH, I'd have 600 bucks more....Oh, and I answer the phone
and emails...Ed

I can vouch for everything you said about AHR - beautiful guns and they always answer their emails and phone calls.

I can vouch for you, Ed - you too always answer your emails and are a true gentleman.

I can say nothing about the T-rex people - never tried calling or emailing them -

I prefer belts - and no wiseass comments about me needing belts and suspenders ) so the T-Rex wasn't a consideration for me.

Still trying to decide but this both fun and exciting - especially since I have my 600 OK to play with in the meantime

CCMDOC,
Multiple Choice:

the best part of this is_______________

a. the 577 BME
b. the 585 BHE
c. there is no wrong answer.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
CCMDOC,
Multiple Choice:

the best part of this is_______________

a. the 577 BME
b. the 585 BHE
c. there is no wrong answer.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Of course the answer is "C" Maybe I should get one of each flavor!

A drilling......

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
A drilling......

Interesting, but I prefer seperate rifles for seperate calibers. Besides, I'd probably load the wrong cartridge in each barrel and make a real mess of things.

Doc-- They told me reamers will be here next week.
That's for the 585BHE, and one will go to
PacNor right away. The other shorter BME case, can't be
fired in same chamber or made from mine by shortening.
I made cartridge like my original 585 that I've tested
for a while. With the more desirable case taper and case
capacity. I only have time to make 700 and 585BHE brass.
Its larger capacity than short one, or Trex, Nyati,
or AHR allows lower pressures for same velocities.
It'll work in Ruger,CZ, Enfield, PH, and long action Savage,
and other custom bigbore actions, and also a Ruger #1.
Even an Encore.Cases are headstamped 585 H....Ed

Not to step on anyones toes but please clarify:

The BME is the 3.0", shorter, less taper "aircat" and the BHE is the 3.2" cartridge PacNor will have a reamer for shortly?

Thanks!

BME is not an aircat...Rich has the first one.

Maybe I'll just have two .585 caliber varmint rigs built