.375 350gr. Woodleigh on buffalo results

06 October 2007, 04:18

I know there has been some talk on the 350gr. Woodleigh bullets in recent times. I got back from the Selous a few weeks ago and used my .375 on buffalo with great results. I shot my buffalo at about 50yds. square through the chest as he was facing me. The buffalo went about 100yds. before falling. I delivered one 350gr. solid in the spine for insurance. The soft stopped in the stomach, and the solid was lodged in the skin on the off side. The soft retained 88% of its weight (.308grs.), and the solid was mildly deformed. The load I was using is as follows.

.375 H&H mag.
.350gr. Woodleigh softs(not PRP) and solids
72.0grs. H-4350
rem. case
federal primer #215
2400fps.

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/THORNELL123/AR%20...rent=buffbullets.jpg

06 October 2007, 04:21

boom stick

Great info! thanks for sharing

06 October 2007, 19:28

I took the same shot on buff with 300 NF, bullet , soft, wound up in buff stomach and retained 287 gr or 95+% of its weight

08 October 2007, 12:40

L. David Keith

Looks like both did their job well. Congrats on your Buff and the other game. David

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"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson

Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......

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08 October 2007, 22:00

x2mosg

Thornell,

That's exactly the load and bullet combo I'm going to use. Thanks for the info.

David Walker

09 October 2007, 01:00

Atkinson

The Woodleigh 350 gr. PPs are tougher than the RN version and will give you a bit more penetration..

09 October 2007, 14:32

Enigma

Mr. Atkinson,

Did you ever try Double Tap's ammunition 350gr Woodleigh load for the H&H? They push that baby at 2450 out of a 24" tube... Sounds like great buffalo medicine!

09 October 2007, 20:10

x2mosg

I noticed the other day that Midway has it listed, but out of stock. It'd be nice to know it would work in my gun. Just as an alternate.

David

10 October 2007, 05:54

JABS

I had some of those DoubleTap 350's arrive a short while ago. I backordered a box and they shipped about 10days later. They must really be popular, it seems that they are always backordered.

10 October 2007, 05:55

JABS

BTW, they shot really well from my Model 70. Clocked 2466fps.

10 October 2007, 20:51

x2mosg

JABS,

Any idea if they'll be making solids anytime soon? Sounds like they're plenty hot. Any pressure signs at all? How about recoil? Any more noticable than any other. I can't tell any difference between my 300 TSX loads and my 350 Woodleigh loads.

David

10 October 2007, 21:16

Atkinson

Enigma,
I have only used my handloads, but they run about 2400 plus a little. I settled on that velocity based on the fact that it shot the Northfork Cup Points and flatnose solids to the same POI in my rifle...

Also in most .375s that I have played with the 300 gr. solid and the 350 gr. softs shoot very close together and if you tinker with the powder charge they will shoot to the same POI.

Remember the PP is a tougher bullet than the RN in the 350 gr. 375 and the 450 gr. .416..

11 October 2007, 10:29

JABS

I have not ordered solids, but their website says that they sell them on special request or something to that effect. They kick hard, but not any more than a standard factory 300gr. load.

11 October 2007, 10:43

ozhunter

The 375 350grn Woodleigh Solids give the best penetration I have seen.

I will be trying the Woodleigh 9.3 320grn solids on Cape Buff next week.

11 October 2007, 10:43

maddenwh

Damn! And I just bought this 416... Well, maybe I'll stuff some 450's in it, and then some 550's in the Lott...

Great to hear they work well and can be shot at that velocity. I guess that almost answers my question as to why the .375 is on the big bore thread.

11 October 2007, 11:39

mouse93

quote:
Originally posted by ozhunter:
I will be trying the Woodleigh 9.3 320grn solids on Cape Buff next week.

Allright - wish you a good hunt

Sorry for hijacking.

11 October 2007, 11:50

500N

quote:
thornell

Where is the Solid deformed ?

Looks straight to me ?

11 October 2007, 12:06

maddenwh

OZHUNTER-

Will, a member here you may or may not know, went on an ele cow hunt recently using 320 grained woodleigh solids. I don't think they worked as well as he would have liked, but he'll admit he missed both his brain shots. I think he had to clean up the mess on the second one with his 470, and the guide did it for him on the first one... hacked Will off.

They obviously aren't "stopper" guns, but they do have great penetration and really are good on anything with good shot placement. As a 9.3X74R chapuis owner, I'm pumped to hear your report. I've been debating with myself and others as to whether it is of sufficient caliber and energy for buff.

12 October 2007, 02:48

thornell

500N, I will post another photo that shows it a bit more clearly.

12 October 2007, 03:23

500N

quote:
Originally posted by maddenwh:
OZHUNTER-

Will, a member here you may or may not know, went on an ele cow hunt recently using 320 grained woodleigh solids. I don't think they worked as well as he would have liked I don't think they worked as well as he would have liked, but he'll admit he missed both his brain shots. I think he had to clean up the mess on the second one with his 470, and the guide did it for him on the first one... hacked Will off.

They obviously aren't "stopper" guns, but they do have great penetration and really are good on anything with good shot placement. As a 9.3X74R chapuis owner, I'm pumped to hear your report. I've been debating with myself and others as to whether it is of sufficient caliber and energy for buff.

Saying he didn't think the bullet worked as well as he would have liked and then in the next sentance saying he missed the brain is a bit of an oxymoron statement.

What didn't he like or was he blaming the bullet for stuffing up his shot ?

A 320gn FMJ in the right place - ie the Brain - will stop an animal dead - it would have the Shock power
if it misses the brain but it will stop it with a Brain shot.

A 320gn FMJ will also go end to end on a Buff - and then some and a 320gn PP or SN will do the same to an extent.

12 October 2007, 05:16

thornell

500N, a pic of the solid.

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/THORNELL123/AR%20...ew¤t=solid.jpg

12 October 2007, 06:12

maddenwh

500Nitro- I believe that what you were tryng to say is that it was an "oxymoronic statement", not an "oxymoron statement."

Semantics aside, the oxymoronic nature of the report is what I was really trying to "gently" convey to the readers of this thread. I didn't want Bill to read it and be offended.

In fact, after he gave his report, I asked him about this very issue (i.e. if you missed the brain shots, how can you objectively determine whether the 9.3 works well on elephant?). He basically said that with a larger caliber or more powerful rifle, the shots that he made to the cows' head would most likely have at least been sufficient enough to knock them down.

I think he was trying to point out that old logic we've all heard... anything as small as a 7mm mauser, or the like, can kill an elephant, but that does not make it an effecient elephant gun. An effecient elephant gun has the ability to knock down or knock out an elephant even if the brain shot is missed.

Also, as his second ele ran away he switched to the 470 in a successful attempt to bring down the bugger with a "texas heart shot." He obviously didn't feel that the 9.3 had the capacity to do that which the 470 did. I agree with Bill on this point.

All that said, Bill really didn't empirically prove that the 9.3 won't work well for eles because he missed his first two shots, and his following shots were made with 470's (never really gave the 9.3 the full chance).

However, his story does demonstrate that Bill, a very experienced and learned hunter, did not have the confidence in the 9.3 to finish off the elephant with it. I'll take Bill's word for it because his knowledge of such things greatly surpasses mine. He ended up selling the 9.3 Chapuis after he got back.

I love my 9.3x74R and 9.3X62, but when I go after ele, I'm taking either my 470 nitro express, or my .458 Lott for the extra "knock out" power they provide.

12 October 2007, 06:16

x2mosg

Joe,

Is it just me or is that bullet "dented" on one side. It appears to be straight, but sort of mashed in on one side near the base. Looks kind of odd to me, but I can't imagine that having any truly adverse effect on the performance. Didn't you put that one through his shoulders when he was on the ground and recovered it under the skin on the far-side? What kind of angle and about how much penetration did it make before stopping?

I'm locked in on these bullets. As soon as they become available from Midway I'm ordering several boxes. There kind of hard to get your hands on. I suspect because both Norma and Double Tap are both loading them now. The supply just seems slow getting here.

Once again, congratulations. And thanks for all the inforamtion. Anyting else you have to offer on these is greatly appreciated.

David

12 October 2007, 06:24

maddenwh

When talking about cape buff, I'm really in the ball park of feeling comfortable taking on cape buff with my 9.3's because of what I've heard yu all say about the 320 grained woodleighs. That just makes my decision process for choosing which rifles to take to Africa that much more complicated and frustrating. It might be frustrating, but it sure as hell is a fun conundrum to "struggle" with.

12 October 2007, 06:29

500N

quote:
Originally posted by maddenwh:
500Nitro- I believe that what you were tryng to say is that it was an "oxymoronic statement", not an "oxymoron statement."

Semantics aside, the oxymoronic nature of the report is what I was really trying to "gently" convey to the readers of this thread. I didn't want Bill to read it and be offended.

In fact, after he gave his report, I asked him about this very issue (i.e. if you missed the brain shots, how can you objectively determine whether the 9.3 works well on elephant?). He basically said that with a larger caliber or more powerful rifle, the shots that he made to the cows' head would most likely have at least been sufficient enough to knock them down.

I think he was trying to point out that old logic we've all heard... anything as small as a 7mm mauser, or the like, can kill an elephant, but that does not make it an effecient elephant gun. An effecient elephant gun has the ability to knock down or knock out an elephant even if the brain shot is missed.

Also, as his second ele ran away he switched to the 470 in a successful attempt to bring down the bugger with a "texas heart shot." He obviously didn't feel that the 9.3 had the capacity to do that which the 470 did. I agree with Bill on this point.

All that said, Bill really didn't empirically prove that the 9.3 won't work well for eles because he missed his first two shots, and his following shots were made with 470's (never really gave the 9.3 the full chance).

However, his story does demonstrate that Bill, a very experienced and learned hunter, did not have the confidence in the 9.3 to finish off the elephant with it. I'll take Bill's word for it because his knowledge of such things greatly surpasses mine. He ended up selling the 9.3 Chapuis after he got back.

I love my 9.3x74R and 9.3X62, but when I go after ele, I'm taking either my 470 nitro express, or my .458 Lott for the extra "knock out" power they provide.

Great.

So as I expected, the CALIBRE was at fault, NOT the bullet as you originally stated in your post.

12 October 2007, 06:50

maddenwh

Wow, you're a pleasant guy to have a discussion with... about as much fun as cutting my toe nails too short. Another oxymoron, whoops, I mean oxymoronic statement. Actually that was a simile. You've got me slippin up 500Nitro.

I didn't make any claim about the hunt, I was simply paraphrasing what Bill had said. I'm sure I left out some valid info. It can be read in full on the go-on-safari.com forums.

What I was trying to convey is that the 320 grained woodleigh in the 9.3 is the most a 9.3, as a cal, can offer in terms of potential performance on elephant. Bill thought that even with these 320 grained bullets, the 9.3 was insufficient. He did not comment on the condition of the bullets, as I bet he didn't spend much time trying to find them.

So, whether or not the bullet itself failed is a matter of perspective. In his opinion (or what I gathered from his report), the bullet did fail on elephant because it was not sufficient enough to bring down the cow. If you consider a bullet's performance as successful by determining whether it held together etc., we we can't determine that from this story.

I hope that more clearly answered your question 500nitro, and I hope we can discontinue this ridiculous exchange b/c franky, I'm getting tired of having to explain myself to someone that just don't get it and aint never gunna.

I certainly wasn't bashing the bullet or the cal.. I'm pumped about trying it out in my 62mm on some hogs this winter.

12 October 2007, 07:45

thornell

David, The bullet is a bit dented and deformed, almost twisted toward the base. This bullet was shot through the spine as the buffalo was on the ground and lodged literally in the skin on the under side. I don't believe the performance was effected in any way.

12 October 2007, 07:51

thornell

Guys, I didn't start this post for it to start into a pissing match like so many others.

12 October 2007, 09:24

500N

thornell

Thanks, good photo and explanation.

12 October 2007, 09:26

500N

quote:
Originally posted by maddenwh:
Wow, you're a pleasant guy to have a discussion with... about as much fun as cutting my toe nails too short. Another oxymoron, whoops, I mean oxymoronic statement. Actually that was a simile. You've got me slippin up 500Nitro.

I didn't make any claim about the hunt, I was simply paraphrasing what Bill had said. I'm sure I left out some valid info. It can be read in full on the go-on-safari.com forums.

What I was trying to convey is that the 320 grained woodleigh in the 9.3 is the most a 9.3, as a cal, can offer in terms of potential performance on elephant. Bill thought that even with these 320 grained bullets, the 9.3 was insufficient. He did not comment on the condition of the bullets, as I bet he didn't spend much time trying to find them.

So, whether or not the bullet itself failed is a matter of perspective. In his opinion (or what I gathered from his report), the bullet did fail on elephant because it was not sufficient enough to bring down the cow. If you consider a bullet's performance as successful by determining whether it held together etc., we we can't determine that from this story.

I hope that more clearly answered your question 500nitro, and I hope we can discontinue this ridiculous exchange b/c franky, I'm getting tired of having to explain myself to someone that just don't get it and aint never gunna.

I certainly wasn't bashing the bullet or the cal.. I'm pumped about trying it out in my 62mm on some hogs this winter.

Well I do get it.

If he had hit the bloody brain of the Elephant
it more than likely would have killed it.

12 October 2007, 09:39

maddenwh

No pissing match THORNELL. We were just trying to clarify on a misunderstanding. I think you'll see that my previous posts consist mostly of information relevant to the thread's topic. I was hoping Messr. Stewart would catch on and give us his 2 cents on whether or not he thought the 320 grained woodleigh "failed" on his ele hunt.

TO MORE CLEARLY ANSWER 500NITRO'S QUESTION, I WOULD SAY THAT HAD THE WOODLEIGHS BEEN FIRED FROM A LARGER CALIBER, PERHAPS EVEN THE 375, THEY MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN THE JOB DONE, SO I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THAT IT WAS THE CAL. AND NOT THE BULLET THAT FAILED. HOWEVER, I THINK THE FAILURE SIMPY CAME FROM A MISSED BRAIN SHOT... I AGREE WITH 500NITRO IN THAT A GOOD BRAIN SHOT FROM A 320 GRAINED WOODLEIGH SHOT FROM A 9.3 WOULD HAVE DROPPED THE ELE. SORRY BILL, NOT SAYING I COULD HAVE DONE ANY BETTER.

12 October 2007, 20:51

Atkinson

I love the 450 gr. Woodleighs in the .416 Rem. It kills buffalo like the hammer of Thor..I like it better than the .375 or 9.3s.

My experience with the 320 gr. Woodleigh is you had best have a 26" barrel and get every last drop of velocity you can out of it or its not particularly good IMO...

I shot the 320 gr. Woodleighs in my 9.3x62 at 2244 FPS in my 26" gun and it performed very well, but at 2000 FPS in a carbine it did not perform nearly as well, at least on buffalo..

I think the 300 gr. Swift should be an ideal bullet in most 9.3x62s. You get plenty of velocity and that's enough bullet weight. A good mid weight GS customs monolithic HP works real well also.