Dear 500 Grains:

Please give me your name, it will make this easier.

A bit off point, but no, I did not take every client that walked in the door, I said that I "took all manner of clients to try out different legal skills." I did not say that I took all clients. Moreover, my practice did not wither and die; I averaged 32-36% net net profitability, but lets stay relevant.

Once again, Purdey is still making an economic decision to not build an AR-15, which can easily be based upon its perceived reputation, and hence lower profit margin from its other manufactures. How does that not comport with profit motive?

And again, the top dogs will make a 375 Ruger if it comports with their market assumptions and eventual profit.

C'mon hit me! These are soft balls.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Chris,

I did not make any comment on your law practice at all. My comments were regarding those law practice that I have not observed yours and I know nothing whatsoever about it.

Businesses often make false assumptions about whether an action will improve its fortunes or not. An often fatal mistake is to take a project out of their area of specialty in exchange for the short term dollar. H&H could probably sell a fancy sidelock rifle in 378 wby for $200K. And H&H could probably introduce a line of push feed rifles for $10K on which the margin would be substantial. But would those decisions enhance long term profitability? Probably not as they would damage the company's reputation in its core market, even though the individual projects would yield short term profits.

Dear (Dan?):

I missed an implication? Of course not, but consider the issue closed.

Back to good business sense. The original issue framed was "Will the top end custom rifle makers such as Dave Miller, D'Arcy Echol, Holland & Holland and Purdey make a rifle chambered in the 375 Ruger cartridge?"

From Phil Shoemaker's post, amongst others, it appears that with the right financial incentive they will. They are asking about it now, and to miss the boat is to miss the boat.

Your question posed was "Purdey does not offer AR15 varmint rifles. If I offer to pay them enough, do you think they will build one for me[, and] Purdey also does not offer rifles based on the Savage 110 action. Again, is it merely a question of money?"

And unfortunately, everything that you have said after this question has only confirmed my position, namely, it is a question of money and no other.

And.....?

Sincerely,


Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
....We could ask the same hypothetical for Purdey. Would they build best grade SLE rifles in 375 Ruger? If you buy the company and replace management then I am sure they would.

But again, that is a fantasy, not reality.

Well stop Being hypothetical.
Have you actually contacted Purdey and been told "NO 375ruger"?

We are having good times.
The people have money, and the big ones can afford to stick their chin up and say NO.
This has not always been the way.
After WWII, the big guys in Brittain did things they would not dream of doing today.

It really IS a matter of money.

Besides, a Savage 110 with a regular barrel/no barrelnut, new bottom-metal/magazine, new safety, new trigger, new boltshroud..... What would be wrong about it? Only its former life as a Savage 110.
That is enough today.
Back in the 1960's, they would have been happy about a 110!

As soon as the easter is over, I will call the people at H&H, Purdey and Westley Richards. Just so it is done.

I think that craftsman do need to be concerned about the secondary market for their products. If, as Dan speculated, a 375 Ruger will bring several thousand dollars less than the same gun in H&H when it comes time to sell the rifle I think the builder has a responsibility to steer the client away from this round. I can't imagine a poor aftermarket for a builders rifles not affecting his current business also. Perhaps 25 rifles that depreciate an extra several thousand dollars more than is usual wont have any effect, perhaps it will. I wouldn't risk my money to find out, but my hats off to those bold few that do. I'll say it again here to head off any charges of bias, I think the 375 Ruger looks like a fine round in Ruger (or other production) rifles.

And again, the .500 Rafiki stands out as a wonderful example.

Dear Mr. Fossdal:

Thank you for the supplemental opinion on what the British gunmakers would do in lean times, compared to what they might not do now. Since you are in the industry, I give real weight to your opinion.

Personally, though, I have not spoken to any of the named makers mentioned here, and am using others' knowledge to buttess my argument that they do things for money like all smart businesses. I am curious as to what you learn after calling them. Please keep me informed as to your results.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Chris,

I think you are still missing the point that a company that prostitutes itself for the short term dollar will damage itself for the long term.

Dear Dan:

So, now you agree with me, its about the money, period. Other factors affect that decision, short term whoring to boot, but it's still about the money. The Purdey buckle for Mr. Beckham among 87 others comes to mind.

I am out of time today, so will check in on Monday, if you want to continue.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Please do not misquote me. Thank you.

How many Winchester Short Magnums did H&H, Purdey, Westley Richards or Johansen make? How many Remington Ultra Magnums did they make? For that matter, how many people in the USA asked any of the US custom makers (Breeding, Weibe, Echols for example) to make a fine rifle in one of those calibers? As a matter of fact, I doubt if they made many rifles in a Weatherby caliber either, even though they have been around for quite awhile. That might be a good indication of what will happen with the Ruger round.

Then again, this may have more to do with the common sense of those ordering the rifles than the calibers.

quote:

As a matter of fact, I doubt if they made many rifles in a Weatherby caliber either,

I was surprised to find out that David Miller Co produced some rifles with Weatherby actions and laminated wood stocks (I don't know if they were both in the same rifle though!).

Canuck

Wink,
Not being arguementative, just bouncing an idea off you.

the 300HH was the first, and still works, 300 mag.

the 300WIn, 308 Norma, and 300HH are all "newbies"

I have seen AT LEAST 10 to one of the later group rather the former one.


HH's ORIGINAL 375, which worked PERFECTLY well in lee speed rifles, was superceeded by the "375 HH" due to action choice and velocity (yes, and only those 2 reasons)..

I have seen ONE 375 leespeed with my own eyes... I have probably seen a couple hundred 375 HH mags.

The makers will make the calibers requested...

Even HH bends to this, see the 700 NE, the 400HH, and the 465HH

jeffe

I choose not to make a 375 AR, due to the "population" at .375.

Wasn't there a gunsmith in Arizona whose trophies were de-listed from Boone & Crockett because there was an allegation of improper measuring and the fellow refused to permit a re-measurement? Or maybe it was a guy in NM or TX. Does anyone recall?

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
What next, you have to have blood on it?

Then it has to be blooded in Africa?

Then it has to be in Tanzania not RSA or Namibia?

Then it has to be out of traditional safari camp?

Then it has to be such and such PH?

Then the witch Doctor has to bless it? .

Hmmm...I believe Dan has class and style...nothen´ wrong with that..

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Wasn't there a gunsmith in Arizona whose trophies were de-listed from Boone & Crockett because there was an allegation of improper measuring and the fellow refused to permit a re-measurement? Or maybe it was a guy in NM or TX. Does anyone recall?

I remember that. A post on here a year or so ago.

I think he was the same guy that stole some money from a fellow in prison who ordered a rifle and also sold a Hank Williams rifle for some old guy who died and refused to send the money to his heirs.

Why? Looking for a gunsmith to build a $40,000 bolt Action 375Ruger?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
The makers will make the calibers requested...

Even HH bends to this, see the 700 NE, the 400HH, and the 465HH

jeffe

Jeffe, I'm not sure the comparison you make is relevant. When H&H decides to make an H&H cartridge, or a 700 NE, they are aiming at the superlative or the sublime. What has that to do with a mass market product?

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

As a matter of fact, I doubt if they made many rifles in a Weatherby caliber either,

I was surprised to find out that David Miller Co produced some rifles with Weatherby actions and laminated wood stocks (I don't know if they were both in the same rifle though!).

Canuck

The exception that confirms the rule?

Dan, you were wrong, admit it............JJ

JJ_Miller

I think the main point that has been missed is that the customer is not going to order a 375 Ruger from Holland and Holland.

Would you order a 375 Ruger or a 375 H&H from Holland and Holland?

Mike

JJ_Miller

If you ordered a rifle form H&H would you order 375 H&H or 375 Ruger.

And at the Sprint Car Whore house end of town would you order Wby in 375 Ruger. And let's assume you have to have a Wby. I would bet it would be 378.

If you ordered a rifle from Purdey would you order 375 H&H or 375 Ruger.?

Mike

That was not the original issue, only part of it. When I proved you and dan wrong then it was well do this and this and that, attempting to steer the discussion away from the fact that Miller and Echols would build the rifle. You 2 started spouting that stuff not me. I just called bullshit on it, proved you wrong in 2 out of 3 smiths and you still want to claim victory on one 'smith. Admit you were wrong on Miller and Echols..................JJ

I'm still waiting for you and dan to admit you were wrong on Miller and Echols.............JJ

Dan and Superspeed, if you go to Purdy website you will see they build exactly 5 calibers in a bolt rifle. Ask them why, if I told you what their email response to me was you would call me a lier, hell I was shocked myself. So much for " bespoke " rifles. Purdy would never get my buisness.................JJ

quote:

I'm still waiting for you and dan to admit you were wrong on Miller and Echols.............JJ

It's not gonna get that cold!

JJ,
Would you PM me with Purdey's response?
Thanks
Chad

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
Dan and Superspeed, if you go to Purdy website you will see they build exactly 5 calibers in a bolt rifle. Ask them why, if I told you what their email response to me was you would call me a lier, hell I was shocked myself. So much for " bespoke " rifles. Purdy would never get my buisness.................JJ

So what was it?

Micky1, email them and see..................JJ

quote:

Micky1, email them and see..................JJ

Forget email....telephone

I will do it for you.

Mike

/

ALF,

I think Weatherby Custom Shop, H&H and Purdey will all come together for a rare moment in history..............

No 375 Rugers will be ordered.

Mike

JJ,

1. You posted false information about ballistics and pressure for the .375 Ruger.

2. You posted inaccurate information about one custom gunmaker's operations and plans to the point where he had to post here himself to "clarify" what he said to you.

3. You have said that the gunmaker in Tuscon would make a 375 Ruger. Maybe you are telling the truth this time. But there is none on order, nor is there likely to be one.

Show us something real. Show us a high end gun in .375 Ruger so that we do not have to take your assertions on faith.

Also, to the extent that you wish to contradict me, please quote my post that you are contradict as I think you are attributing things to me which are not in my posts. Thank you.

Alf, you are exactly right they are a shotgun maker with the cabability if producing rifles. If one thinks they want to compete with HH in that aspect they are mistaken, at least thats the feeling one gets after conversing with them..............

quote:

I think Weatherby Custom Shop, H&H and Purdey will all come together for a rare moment in history..............

Not much chance of me ever ordering a rifle from any of the above. Regardless of caliber.

Those companies, well H&H and Purdey at least have some type of image to uphold.

I personally prefer to not be associated with the Weatherby image. Excess, over the top elitist.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Theoretical possibilities are not of much interest. Show me something real.

Sure enough I totally agree...

Who, in this forum, actually owns and hunts with a purdey big bore?

I understand Purdey makes about 75 guns per year, with the vast majority being shotguns. It is not clear how many bolt action rifles they have made in recent years, at least from just a casual search. Of the 75 guns they make, approximately 15% go to pure collectors who will never fire the weapon. I have hunt birds with two others who hunt with their Purdey shotguns here in France. I have never seen a Purdey bolt action rifle. But I don't think the AR membership represents a good cross section of anything, much less of who owns and then hunts with British guns.