I must say, I am really enjoying a brouhaha of this caliber without having a horse in the race. Well, not really 100% horseless...

I hear the Hornady Heavy Magnum that makes the two a dead heat isn't considered factory ammunition.
Okay, rechamber the H&H to the improved version or the 375Wbee...then it is ahead of the Ruger, and I can buy brass. Anybody on the Hornady side of the fence got a part number from Hornady for brass yet? Any price?
Hmmmmmm... Is it considered kosher to make 375 Imp or Wbee brass from 416 Rem, or 458 Lott, or 470 Capstick, or factory 375, or ... What parent brass do I have to find to make the 375 Ruger from?

Then I hear nobody on the elite list at the ACGG will build one, except Echols will if I order 25. But he'll build me a 375Wbee asap 'cause he already has the reamer and bottom end metal, and has done at least ONE!!

I guess I'll bet my money on the old bobtailed nag, if somebody bets on the bay!

IMHO we will see a run of 375 rooger from Jamison before Hornady can provide any.

I got yer backside here Danny Boy...you make them prove the rooger is available and better. Anybody dig up that SKU # from Hornady yet? Grafs? Midway? Natchez Shooters Supply? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

One last question, how many readers got a 375 rooger or plan to buy one this year? How about 375H&H? Ther's a poll we need to run.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Idaho,
How many folk had a custom 375h&h in the first few months of its release?
How long before a customer actually received one that they ordered from H&H?
How long before they could get a .375H&H in a dedicated MagnumM98 receiver?
When and where did 375H&H loaded ammo become readily available on the shelf?

Hornady main aim aint to try to destroy the .375H&h market, but they hopefully want to cash in on it a bit, could work ,could not.
The 375ruger/m77 is a good idea.
Like I said ealier,premium makers, HartmannWeiss and ReimerYohannsen quoted me on .416Dak. and .375Dak. in exquisite TakedwownMausers no problem. are those chambers any less oddball than 375Ruger??

"..Then I hear nobody on the elite list at the ACGG will build one.."

ACGG has some extremely talented high class craftsmen,but it aint the centre of the premium gunmaking world.

Be smart, by stop relying on hearsay and make some direct phone calls or letters of enquiry for yourself and get it from the horses mouth, like others have already done.
Unfortunately I have just recently thrown out the Reimer quote, but still have the Hart.Weiss quote. I will scan&post it, if someone requests.

We are yet to see letters of reply that 500gns has received or names of individuals he spoke with at Purdey or anywhere else for that matter, saying that 375ruger wont be done.

I do ask the question though,
If someone was so fanatical about 375H&H & tradition, Why would they opt for a Purdey, when they could have a .375H&H by Holland&Holland?
to want anything else but a H&H/H&H combo.would seem a bit er..ODDbaLL

Dan, why can't you admit you were wrong ? Everyone seems to realize that except you.

At some point in time it doesn't matter how many safaris you have been on, how many elephants you have shot, you can undermine all that experience by being refusing reason. Then all you are is a sad little man with a sad life.

My intent is not to be smart ass, condesending or arrogant. I am trying to get you to realize how you look.

................................JJ

JJ, have you put together an order for 30 Echols rifles in 375 Ruger already? What would that run, about $400K? $500K?



Theoretical possibilities are not of much interest. Show me something real.

Dan, you are the one who started the " theory " issues by stating adamently stating Miller and Echols would not build the rifles, changing the rules in midstream ???.................JJ

JJ, I think you are stretching, just as you did with your factually inaccurate statements about pressure and velocity. Remember those factually inaccurate statements?

Now I am beginning to understand why Adam wanted to keep you out of the part of the concession that he was hunting.

JJ, you have been Dan'ed!

quote:

I respect your choice to build a 375 H&H. Do you have a Purdey, H&H, Echols or Miller 375 H&H?

500gr,
An honest answer to the question please.

quote:

One last question, how many readers got a 375 rooger or plan to buy one this year? How about 375H&H? Ther's a poll we need to run.

IS,

Yes, I plan on getting a rifle in 375 Ruger.

I've given the Ruger Hawkeye African a serious look. Nice rifle for the money. Tempting, but I'm just not a Ruger rifle fan.

So I'll have to get it built, and I don't foresee it being done in a year.

I'll have to decide and aquire an action, buy a piece of wood, figure out all the details.

I have a few choices of smith's. Stuart Satterlee is just down the road, Jim Anderson (worked at Dakota and the titanium actions with Stuart) is about 30 miles away. Bill Sovern's lives a few blocks from Jim. Marc Stokeld did a great transformation on my CZ 416 Rigby.

So it will take time.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I must say, I am really enjoying a brouhaha of this caliber without having a horse in the race. Well, not really 100% horseless...

I hear the Hornady Heavy Magnum that makes the two a dead heat isn't considered factory ammunition.
Okay, rechamber the H&H to the improved version or the 375Wbee...then it is ahead of the Ruger, and I can buy brass. Anybody on the Hornady side of the fence got a part number from Hornady for brass yet? Any price?
Hmmmmmm... Is it considered kosher to make 375 Imp or Wbee brass from 416 Rem, or 458 Lott, or 470 Capstick, or factory 375, or ... What parent brass do I have to find to make the 375 Ruger from?

Then I hear nobody on the elite list at the ACGG will build one, except Echols will if I order 25. But he'll build me a 375Wbee asap 'cause he already has the reamer and bottom end metal, and has done at least ONE!!

I guess I'll bet my money on the old bobtailed nag, if somebody bets on the bay!

IMHO we will see a run of 375 rooger from Jamison before Hornady can provide any.

I got yer backside here Danny Boy...you make them prove the rooger is available and better. Anybody dig up that SKU # from Hornady yet? Grafs? Midway? Natchez Shooters Supply? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

One last question, how many readers got a 375 rooger or plan to buy one this year? How about 375H&H? Ther's a poll we need to run.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

That is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this forum. No substance whatsoever. I suggest you read and not post.

quote:

I suggest you read and not post.

It is the former that causes his problem with the latter

MooseHunter,
I should inform you that have probably now have stired the AR junkyard Dog from his sleep.

and shall most likely face the forces of IdahoSharpShooters Old Testament Wrath just like HotCore and VartmintGuy did.
One of his std. approaches is to PoundPeopleBackintoMutherEarth, though that could be alittle difficult with the permafrost you have up your way.
He sure sounds like OneToughCookie!!! but cookies do crumble.....
May the Force be with You.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

The one thing Dan is 100% right about, is that there is no way in the seven hells that the Ruger can get higher speeds than the H&H without higher preassures.

Bent,

-MOST 375 HH loads, with modern powders, from the factory, ARE NOT LOADED AS HOT AS POSSIBLE, because modern powders EASILY (how many times have we read it hear) allow the 375 HH to exceed 2500fps.

-In other words, the "normal" 375 HH load is loaded to VELOCITY not to maxed out pressure.

-Hornady proves this with the heavy mag load.

-Now, comes the ruger, with a slightly larger case, and loaded to the same SAMMI as the 375 is spec'ed to.

-so, Hornady loads the 375 Ruger to that pressure level, and gets like results.

-It's not magic.

jeffe

Jeffe...........what the hell?
What are you saying here that is not the same as both Dan and I are saying? At the same preassure, almost same velosity, and the small gain the Ruger has, is what one would expect with a few grains more capasity.

Dan, of course the big makers are sceptical, it is a NEW cartridge!!!
But because of todays sceptisism - heck, most of them have probably never even heard about it - to claim they will NEVER do it, is a bit silly. If the demand is there, they will build them.

Why else do you think Rigby makes standard doublerifles in 9,3x74, but not in .400-.350 Rigby? Same for H&H and their .375 Flanged?

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
JJ, you have been Dan'ed!

Sounds like the infamous "Zone of Death"

Bent,
In the "other" custom ruger thread, on high end wood, I actually lay that out and why,.

Let's not use rigby, as they current california company does do high pressure rounds, as does merkel

but, HH has a 375HH in a double, (not flanged) on their web site..

But, speaking of HH, they DID build the 700NE because they said they would never build another 600NE, and invented a wildcat for a SINGLE rifle (that has somewhat caught on)

In other words, just like the gunsmith down the street, the greats WILL build nearly anything you want, if you'll pay the bill

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I must say, I am really enjoying a brouhaha of this caliber without having a horse in the race. Well, not really 100% horseless...

I hear the Hornady Heavy Magnum that makes the two a dead heat isn't considered factory ammunition.
Okay, rechamber the H&H to the improved version or the 375Wbee...then it is ahead of the Ruger, and I can buy brass. Anybody on the Hornady side of the fence got a part number from Hornady for brass yet? Any price?
Hmmmmmm... Is it considered kosher to make 375 Imp or Wbee brass from 416 Rem, or 458 Lott, or 470 Capstick, or factory 375, or ... What parent brass do I have to find to make the 375 Ruger from?

Then I hear nobody on the elite list at the ACGG will build one, except Echols will if I order 25. But he'll build me a 375Wbee asap 'cause he already has the reamer and bottom end metal, and has done at least ONE!!

I guess I'll bet my money on the old bobtailed nag, if somebody bets on the bay!

IMHO we will see a run of 375 rooger from Jamison before Hornady can provide any.

I got yer backside here Danny Boy...you make them prove the rooger is available and better. Anybody dig up that SKU # from Hornady yet? Grafs? Midway? Natchez Shooters Supply? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

One last question, how many readers got a 375 rooger or plan to buy one this year? How about 375H&H? Ther's a poll we need to run.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

You must be kidding w/ all that, I can't believe you'd seriously post it.

One thing I'll note, 20 loaded 375R cartridges are cheaper than 20 pcs of 375Wby brass.

GVA

If I buy a 375 this year it will be the 375R. I am sure I will have no problem getting a good one built. At one time, the 375 H&H was just a new odd ball cartridge too.

i have put my money where my mounth is...Stuart Satterlee is making me a RUGER 375 on one of his M 98 ACTIONS, obermyer barrel etc etc etc....i guess he has just relegated him self to a second rate rifle builder...sorry stu
as a hunting rig i find the ruger 375 far more practical from a hunting point of view...nostalgia and history does not carry a heavey rifle in the African heat, or across the boggy alaskan landscape ,nor does it kill any better
Daniel

I would like to know how many 300WSM that D'Arcy has built and when was the last one.

A gunmaker who posts here told me he had built 4-5 when they first came out but none in the last 2 years. He thinks people who actually have money to build a custom rifle usually build classic calibers because of resale value.

Paying David Miller $40,000 to build a 375 Ruger is about the stupidist thing I have ever read here. And I have read a lot of stupid things.

Like Allen Day used to say before he was run off the Board:

"Just another way to seperate the Rubes from their Money."

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

Paying David Miller $40,000 to build a 375 Ruger is about the stupidist thing I have ever read here. And I have read a lot of stupid things.

Even if it's on an MRC action?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Wink, Bent, you out there? What's the word in Europe? Are our brethren over there all agog over the 375R?
Have they heard of it yet?

Rich
DRSS

I don't think they know it exists (Bent is really ahead of the curve compared to French rifle makers). Remember, Hornady is basically not distributed (although you can get some bullets from some retailers) and I have NEVER seen a Ruger rifle other than the Magnums in .375 H&H and 416 Rigby on a dealer's shelves. When they were the only ones making a reasonably priced and reasonalby good looking 416 there were more than since CZ came out with theirs. Ruger was not present at the Rambouillet show and of all the used rifles on racks at the show there wasn't a single Ruger. I doubt if a single rifle in .375 Ruger will be sold or made in France this year, if ever.

mickey
get your facts in order...A.D was not run off the board...he chose to go, off his OWN ACCORD
Daniel

mickey
paying $40,000 for any rifle made on a winchester action is the point where stupidity over runs ignorance, the same applies for paying $10,000 for a rifle made on a winchester action in a fiberglass stock
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
mickey
paying $40,000 for any rifle made on a winchester action is the point where stupidity over runs ignorance, the same applies for paying $10,000 for a rifle made on a winchester action in a fiberglass stock
Daniel

I can't agree more.

As for AD, we each have our own feelings about that.

I dont question Darcy Echols or Dave Millers level of rifle building skill, have visted them both.
But I question that an m70 is worthy of such application & expenditure.
Many Americans see the m70 as some super creation.
If these fine craftsmen didnt build rigs based on them(10k or 40k) then they would see Business going out the door. An Ideology that helps keep someone in business,nothing wrong with that. Each to his own.
Darcy in conversation did say that some dont like the price of a 6k HartmannWeissMagnum mauser action. But the ones that are happy with the price dont mind paying him to cut the orig.bolt handle off and put a different shape on.

So now,
not only is it "RazzaRalfMartini" and"OddballEchols" for Building 9.3x64B,
its also,
"InsanitySatterlee" for Building 375rugerM98.

the new low classification of rifle builders.

Well, NOT IN MY BOOK!

Hello M98,
You are indeed a fortunate fellow to have a rifle in whatever caliber built with an Obermeyer barrel. Top notch stuff!! Have an issued M14 NM rifle w/ Obermeyer barrel and indeed a fine shooting firearm for a service rifle. You will be well pleased with the performance I am sure.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
Dan,
I thinked JJ showed you that you are wrong. You just keep adding more hoops to jump through.

What DON'T you understand about the fact that they will build them?

This all started with a hypothetical question of which cartridge one would choose to build a high end custom gun.

Some people chose a 375 Ruger, obviously not your choice. Respect other people's choices.

Then you went on say the builders won't build it. Proven wrong.

Now you want to see one. Give it a couple years.

What next, you have to have blood on it?

Then it has to be blooded in Africa?

Then it has to be in Tanzania not RSA or Namibia?

Then it has to be out of traditional safari camp?

Then it has to be such and such PH?

Then the witch Doctor has to bless it?

All of this because you wouldn't choose to build a rifle in 375 Ruger and don't agree with people who would.

Your entitled to your opinion, I respect your choice to build a 375 H&H. Do you have a Purdey, H&H, Echols or Miller 375 H&H? If not, your just like everyone stating their opinions.

Just don't tell me mine is wrong.

It takes more of a man to admit he's wrong than to keep digging a bigger hole.

Bravo, couldn't have said it any better myself.
Thanks

I think the high end gunmaker who posted here said he would need a miniumum order of 30 rifles for it to make economic sense for him to build a mag box for the 375 Ruger. For plastic stocked rifles that would run $300K+ and for wood stocked guns that would run $600K+.

Has JJ ordered 30 rifles from that maker?

If not, then JJ is still promoting a fantasy, not reality.

We could ask the same hypothetical for Purdey. Would they build best grade SLE rifles in 375 Ruger? If you buy the company and replace management then I am sure they would.

But again, that is a fantasy, not reality.

When a high end gun maker says that he WILL build the 375 Ruger, that is reality.

Trying to say that he won't because someone hasn't ordered 30 of them is DENIAL.

If a tree falls in the forest and 500 grs isn't there to hear it does it make a sound??

Actually what was said was that it MIGHT get built "Perhaps in the future but not anytime soon" and followed with "adding yet another 375 that already has at least one ballistic twin makes little financial sense to me"

I'm sure that he will stick by his word and build the rifles when the time comes.

Mt point isn't that custom gun makers are burning the midnight oil making 375 Rugers, it's that with the right amount of interest he would build one.

Others said that custom gun makers wouldn't even think of building a rifle in such a caliber.

They were wrong.

KC

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
mickey
paying $40,000 for any rifle made on a winchester action is the point where stupidity over runs ignorance, the same applies for paying $10,000 for a rifle made on a winchester action in a fiberglass stock
Daniel

IMO, paying $40k for ANY bolt actioned rifle is where stupidity over runs ignorance. And until you can show me ANY other custom built bolt rifle that is built as well, shoots as accurately and feeds as flawlessly as one of those $10k M70s with a fiberglass stock, I will happily continue hunting the world with the best built rifle ANY amount of money can buy.

quote:

Originally posted by KC Carlin:
When a high end gun maker says that he WILL build the 375 Ruger, that is reality.

Trying to say that he won't because someone hasn't ordered 30 of them is DENIAL.

If a tree falls in the forest and 500 grs isn't there to hear it does it make a sound??

Why are guys like K.C. and JJ desparately seeking to convince me about the availability of a cartridge that I do not plan to use??

Guys, if you want an Echols 375 Ruger, then order one and see if he will make it. According to what he posted, he has no plans to do so.

A person of ordinary intelligence would therefore consider it 'unavailable'.

But a person with an I.Q. of 45.70 might think otherwise...

quote:

Guys, if you want an Echols 375 Ruger, then order one and see if he will make it. According to what he posted, he has no plans to do so.

A person of ordinary intelligence would therefore consider it 'unavailable'.

Sounds fair enough to me

Superspeed, your IQ is lower than Dan's; what do you reckon?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Why are guys like K.C. and JJ desparately seeking to convince me about the availability of a cartridge that I do not plan to use??

.

Odd, the only person that I have seen acting in desparation is one refusing to accept that this challenge was taken, met, and bested.... and then arbitrariliy changed at the end.

Someone certainly enjoys the spurious and strawman comment tactic.. in fact "makes a living" off that strategy

D'Arcy said he's make em. The END
jeffe

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Just another perspective on this issue of who will build a 375 Ruger: with the right amount of money to include the one time cost of tooling, wouldn't any reputable businessman or woman make whatever the customer desired?

As a formerly practicing lawyer, unless I was bound to not accept a client for ethical or legal reasons, I would do what the client wished, and get paid for it.

To me this is standard business practice.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:


As a formerly practicing lawyer, unless I was bound to not accept a client for ethical or legal reasons, I would do what the client wished, and get paid for it.

To me this is standard business practice.

Many business people wish to have their name associated with certain activities and not others. They may feel that some activities enhance their reputation and others do not. Or they may feel that some activities are outside of the field in which they wish to specialize.

Purdey does not offer AR15 varmint rifles. If I offer to pay them enough, do you think they will build one for me?

Purdey also does not offer rifles based on the Savage 110 action. Again, is it merely a question of money?

A rich Texan goes into Purdey's and orders a matched pair of shotguns. The price, after all is agreed upon is 150,000 Pounds.

"When will they be ready?" ask the Texan.

"in 3-4 years," was the reply.

"3-4 years? I heard you built a pair for Prince Phillip in 6 months."

"That is correct, we did."

"Well what's the matter? Isn't my money as good as his?"

"No, it isn't," was the reply.

Dear 500 Grains:

Okay, today I have the flu, and could use a little pick me up, so, let's begin.

In essence within the parameters of the possible, yes, if you are in business, it all comes down to money, and the more the better.

So, if your reputation or prohibitive tooling cost makes you turn business away, you are still making a business decision based on profit.

When we are in the next recession, it will be interesting to see businessmen and women make allowances for customers that they would not otherwise take orders from in more flush times.

I, on the other hand, was and am an intellectual glutton, and took all manner of clients to try out different legal skills. After 10 years, I ran out of interest in the law, and am on to other endeavors, but still am profit motivated. I've run and succeeded at all my businesses since age 13; driven by profit motive, but not as the sole criterion. If I had stayed a securities lawyer, my cash flow today would be more than satisfactory.

But like any businessman, I am taking a financial risk now, and the long term gain will be more appreciative than if I had stayed a securities lawyer.

The decision was driven by enhancing profit primarily. If I am bored with an endeavor, then my work product will suffer, and lessen my income. Let me tie this together now, concerning the 375 Ruger.

As a rifle nut, I really like the new 375 Ruger case, and in my opinion it is a superior case design vis a vis the 375 H&H. The 375 H&H case was designed for a powder that no longer exists.

Finally, someone caught up in case design with Charles Newton, and I applaud both Hornady and Ruger for doing this. Someday the Ruger case, being of superior design may supplant the 375 H&H. I don't know, but maybe Hornady and Ruger do. Its their gamble.

As to Hornady's and Ruger's long term profitablility with this cartridge, and who will build rifles from this cartridge, like Mr. Miller and Mr. Echols, it will depend on its perceived profitability.

So, in my opinion, the high end guys will make a 375 Ruger rifle if profitable, when based upon their market assumptions. Purdey will make an AR-15 or a rifle based upon the Savage 110 action, if it enhances their total profit after capital costs and marginal costs, and it does not reduce the profit of their present operations, if dependent upon reputation.

Its still about the money.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Chris,

It is unusual these days for a lawyer to take whatever case walks in the door. We specialize. And within our specialties we are a bit finicky about what clients we take. It is about reputation and efficiency. And ultimately that translates into long term economic benefit. The lawyers I know who take any case that walks in ultimately see their practices wither.

What would happen to Purdey's reputation if they started turning out push feed rifles in 257 Weatherby? Soon it would be destroyed. Their traditional market would be gone, and the new market would likely be transient and not lucrative.

Ultimately the top dogs in any field have very narrow specialties and are very selective about the projects that they take.