i dont see too many people here making or using 425 w.r.'s

who has one?

yes it has the rebate of the 500 jeffe but that does not stop people here...what gives? bullets? barrels?

Boom,

my guess feeding is one reason, be interesting to see what other say.

o.k. but use 404 brass and presto no more rebate...or maybe swap bolts and use factory ammo and use all three rims, 544, 532 and 470?

yeah, but presto you wouldnt have a 425 WR.

Hey Bommie, I forgot to ask, what the advantage or having a gun with multi bolts that shoots same dia bullet but different head size. Or did I miss something

well lets say you go to africa you would want the headstamped 425 and its rebate. but for everything else you would want no rebate or minimum rebate...

or maybe just stamp 425 w.r. on 404 basic...yeah, thats the ticket...

Boomie,

From a hunting perspective, that makes about as much sense as a fart in a space suite

I have one, and it doesnt have the special clips and it loads and fires like a dream. But, I have been advised that mono-metal bullets could damage the barrel. Not wanting to miss out on new bullet technology, I´m looking for a 416 rigby. I wont find it easy to part with the 425 tho. When I hold it and look at it, it feels like its been somewhere I´ll never get to.

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Boomie,

From a hunting perspective, that makes about as much sense as a fart in a space suite

i agree...

use unstampes 404 basic brass and go to town. have the nostalgia pinky erection and no rebate...

quote:

Originally posted by boet:
I have one, and it doesnt have the special clips and it loads and fires like a dream. But, I have been advised that mono-metal bullets could damage the barrel. Not wanting to miss out on new bullet technology, I´m looking for a 416 rigby. I wont find it easy to part with the 425 tho. When I hold it and look at it, it feels like its been somewhere I´ll never get to.

if you are having barrel issues, rebarrel and go to town.

Excelent idea, I´m not even sure if there really is a problem. Maybe I could just try to wreck the old one and see if it works.
boet.

It is a sweetheart.
But it is the only cartridge I can think of that was made in that caliber, and so the bullet selection is somewhat scarse.
Brass is not made all over either, and the rebated buisness has of course not helped with its popularity.

Boom, if you want to go nostalgic, you have to do it all the way. Harald Wolfe in germany has made nonrebated versions of the .500 Jeffery,and still let them go with the original name - and that just confuses everybody. The .500 AHR is a justified, moderniced version.

So use the .425 WR as it is, or make a wildcat with a new name. And you DO love to name wildcats, yes?

Boet;
yea, do that, shoot the heck out of the old one and rebarrel! If you want to keep the stampings of the barrel, you could bore out and install a liner!!

Just got a brief message from a friend currently hunting elephant in Zimbabwe that there is a 425WR rifle for sale, in great condition.

Without knowing any more details, other than it is in good original condition, is anyone game enough to suggest a reasonable sale price for this calibre/rifle?

If its one of the plain models, 1200$ - 1300$ US is about right.
boet

is there someone who can resize a piece of rum brass to 425 w.r. for me???

i will send you a couple pieces of rum brass to try. thanks!

I had one that I liked very much. My son has it now and had a nice post on preparing cases from 375 RUM cases... https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=963105705#963105705

They shoot very well.

thanks for the post...

quote...

"I recently aquired a nice .425 Westly Richards with a 24" barrel built on a Mauser 98 Action.

There is very limited loading data but I did find a reference on the web for 80.0 gr of IMR 4895 using a 410gr. Barnes Original bulltes. I was hoping to develop a load using one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders as they claim to be less temperature sensitive than other powders on the market. In hopes of making the world a better place I post the following loading data from a recent visit to the range:

Bullet - 410gr Barnes original (also tried 410gr Woodliegh Solid with no difference in velocities)
Primer - Federal 215M
Cases - Bertram Brass as well as some cases made by "masterifleman" out of 375 RUM (No difference)
Altitude - 5,025 feet above sea level
Temp - 90 degrees
Humidity - 27%
Chronograph - Crony C

75.0 gr H4895 produced an average velocity of 2,468 fps with a slight feel to the bolt ... I never did bother to try 80 grs of 4895!

74.0 gr of VARGET - produced an average velocity of 2,342 fps

75.0 gr of VARGET - produced an average velocity of 2,408 fps. (note the first shot was 2,369 fps and the rest were 2,402 - 2,414 fps.

There were no extraction problems whatsoever with any of the VARGET loads even when the rifle got hot.

Hope this helps ..."

Well Boom stick, I think you need to get a full time job, you have way to much extra time on your hands!

Howsomever, if you must have a wildcat .425 then why not just neck up the great .338 case to 425 and have something with affordable brass, works through a std action, gets a tad better velocity, etc.

bwahahahahahaha...

i can do two things at once...the internet and telecommuting is awesme!

i am working on getting rum brass formed to 425 w.r. as we type...its notsomuch a wildcat as correcting a horrible rebate. it willbe either an unrebated or a w.r.r.r. westley richards reduced rebate.

from what i gather the 425 came out in 1908 some say 1909...basicly the same time as the 404. the 404 has more popularity partly due to its lack of rebate. it is essentialy a standard action 404 and without the rebate a great round. if you dont mind the lack of bullet selection it is a neet historic round. i think a few 7mags should reach an early grave to this improved version.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Howsomever, if you must have a wildcat .425 then why not just neck up the great .338 case to 425 and have something with affordable brass, works through a std action, gets a tad better velocity, etc.

Boom stick,
The above written by Ray is not a bad idea and one I've considered. You could also use the 300WinMag case as it's a fraction longer, and necking 300WinMag brass up with give you a longer neck than the original .30cal brass. If you made one then let's call it the 435ERC ... seeing as you name everything thought I'd better get in first.
Cheers...
Con

actualy con if you do a simple neck up of the 375 h+h keeping its taper you will have a better round imho...

there will be no shoulder, just body taper and a neck...excelent feeding. kinda like the 458 lott but a 425 version. 400@ 2300

i hereby name thee the 425 b+s

use a 375 reamer and 425 neck and throat reamer, fireform and make custom dies...

man that would be a great feeder and extracting cart.

i dont have the stuff for it to make a dummy round...anyone want to neck up a lose primer pocket h+h case to show what it will look like???

the standard action length of say 2.6ish will be the 425 b+s short

go with the 300 win idea con but i thing the slick no shoulder would be kewel...

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=425+westley+richa...dOotC&icp=1&.intl=us

excerpt...

The turn of the 20th century saw London gun companies racing to match or better the ballistics of the big-bore single- and double-barrel Nitro Express rifles with a magazine rifle cartridge capable of taking the world’s largest game while maintaining a measure of versatility. Three of those companies, Jeffery, Westley Richards and John Rigby & Co., introduced new magazine rifle cartridges within a few years of each other.

The first introduction came with Jeffery’s launch of the.404 Rimless N.E., better known as the .404 Jeffery, according to a 1905 Jeffery catalog. The .404’s introduction is often mistakenly attributed to a later date, when the .404 was offered on Magnum Mauser actions, which took place only after Mauser’s exclusive arrangement with Rigby as its British agent had ended. In its initial development, Jeffery had merely opened-up the action and magazine box of standard Mauser 98 military actions to accommodate the large .404 cartridge. Duplicating the .450/.400 N.E. ballistics, the .404 (actually a 0.423"-diameter bullet) fires a 400-gr. bullet at 2125 f.p.s. to generate 4,020 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy.

The second British, big-bore, magazine rifle cartridge came in 1909, when Westley Richards introduced the .425 Westley Richards. The .425 WR (actually a 0.435"-diameter bullet), with its fat case and rebated rim certainly cut a nonstandard look. The case length is 2.64", head diameter is 0.543" and the rebated rim is turned down to just 0.467", to enable it to fit a standard Mauser bolt face. In spite of its peculiar dimensions, the .425 WR cartridge produces impressive ballistics by pushing a 410-gr. bullet at 2350 f.p.s. and generating 5,010 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy—more or less matching the same energy delivered by double-rifle cartridges in the .450- to .470 N.E.-class.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/default.htm
liljah makes barrels
z-hat chambers the 425

Boom stick,
Your 375H&H based 'cat is too close to the 435 PH and the maker of that one has kindly offered me use of his reamer ... but boy wouldn't it look better on a 300RUM case ... then can I call it the 435 ERC???
Cheers...
Con

Con,
As I recall, necking the 300 Win up to the .425 would be the .425 Express, a wildcat developed by Cameron Hopkins some years ago and has loads listed in the A-Square Reloading manual if I'm not mistaken. Just another .404 wildcat, the idea was to get rid of the rebated case and thats an excellent idea IMO....

Ray,
Very true ... but we're talking about the 425WR's 0.435" projectile. Woodleigh still has 0.435" soft and FMJ 410gr and made one run of 450gr FMJ for the originator of the 435 PH, so could probably do another if asked and the $$$ was forthcoming.
The 425Express seemed like a GREAT idea, almost rechambered my rebored 10.75x68 to it in the late 90's as quality cases etc had dried up for the 10.75 in Australia. What a honey the 10.75 was
Cheers...
Con

425 w.r. was the brass of choice for the 458 socom...quote...

.458 SOCOM

The .458 SOCOM cartridge was developed in order to provide superior stopping power for AR-15 based weapon systems, in view of the questionable effectiveness of the 5.56 mm round in recent conflicts. A new cartridge in .458 calibre was selected as this not only offers considerable stopping power but also offers the user a vast choice of commercially available bullets, ranging from 300 gr. (19.4g) HP and Spitzers, 405 gr. (26.2g) FN, up to 500 gr. (32.4g) Solids and Tungsten Core RN. A case of the same diameter as the .50AE that would completely fill the AR-15 magazine seemed the right choice, but the rim needed further reducing to avoid much work to the bolt lugs. The use of an even more drastically rebated rim seemed the solution, and the 0.473†(12.0 mm) diameter rim employed by the .308 and .30-06 based cartridges was chosen, as this would allow easy retrofit of bolt action rifles in this calibre.

The .425 Westley Richards cartridge was identified as the ideal basis as it had all the proper measurements, but it was too costly. So Starline Brass agreed to a pre-production run of .50AE brass, but unformed, untrimmed and with the rim rebated to 0.473â€. It is headstamped: * 458 * SOCOM. Case length is 39.9 mm, rim diameter 11.9 mm, body diameter 13.6 mm, neck diameter 12.3 mm.

Initial loads, and the overall case, were designed around the Barnes 300 gr. X Spitzer, as this appeared to be the lightest spitzer bullet available. This determined the case length of 40 mm to ensure that the cartridge was short enough to still function through the AR magazine. The .458 SOCOM uses standard AR-15 magazines with no modification. The 20-rd magazines will hold 7 rounds, the 30’s will hold 10 rounds, and the 40-rd .223 magazines will hold 15 rounds of .458 SOCOM ammunition. The AK-47 can also be chambered in this calibre.

The case is a pistol case so operates at relatively low pressure, and thus imparts less stress on parts of the rifle. The following results are obtained from a 16†(406 mm) barrel:

300 gr (19.4g) JHP at 2,000 fps (610 m/s): (CorBon factory load equivalent)

400 gr (25.9g) Barnes RN Solid at 1,700 fps (518 m/s): (CorBon factory load equivalent)

500 gr (32.4g) Hornady RN at 980 fps (300 m/s)

500 gr (32.4g) Speer AGS-T at 1,300 fps (396 m/s) 600 gr (38.9g) Barnes Original at 900 ft/sec (274 m/s): (CorBon factory load equivalent. Subsonic; complete combustion in 10.5 inch barrel).

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:rAYv-Y_kL2gJ:member...&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us

this link says the 404 came out in 1909 and the 425 w.r. in the 1890'S...clarity please...

........Stripper clips......I believe that was the thot behind the rebated rim ......Execelent Idea for that time and place......For killing prides of lions and heards of elephants ect...Along with the up to 7 shot magizine.....What a wonderful killing machine....Who needs a double when you can lay down a field of fire with your elephant rifle ..............Necking any kind of normal brass to 435 by and large so closely duplicates the 458 win mag , as to not make much sense.......Kind of like necking the 458 to 465 ..

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:rAYv-Y_kL2gJ:member...&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us

this link says the 404 came out in 1909 and the 425 w.r. in the 1890'S...clarity please...

Ignore that link. Almost all of the dates for the British cartridges are wrong.

The feeding problems with the .425 had to do with poor quality rifles, not the cartridge design. Stripper clips had nothing to do with the rebated rim.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

At last, some truth to the matter. Thank you 400 Nitro! What bad quality control at the rifle factory did to the rep of a damm fine cartridge is a crime.